SMSL DA-9 and SVS Ultra Bookshelf

[the machine]

Hello All,

Just looking for opinions on the pairing of the SMSL DA-9 amp with SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers. the 8ohm Ultras say 20-150W amp pairings, and the DA-9 is rated at 50W@ 8ohm, Should this be sufficient, or is a higher rated amp actually better, even if not using at the full volume? This will be a nearfield setup, so super loud volumes are not necessary.

Thanks

 

[PENG]

Hello All,

Just looking for opinions on the pairing of the SMSL DA-9 amp with SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers. the 8ohm Ultras say 20-150W amp pairings, and the DA-9 is rated at 50W@ 8ohm, Should this be sufficient, or is a higher rated amp actually better, even if not using at the full volume? This will be a nearfield setup, so super loud volumes are not necessary.

Thanks

If near field means 5 ft or less, it should be able to do the job. Try it and let us know.
Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)

 

[the machine]

Thanks PENG,

I think my question was poorly described, and may have illogical thought processes, which is why I feel like I still have the question.

There have been numerous discussions regarding different amps "sounding" different. No need to have this discussion in this thread (maybe...). My curiosity is regarding the capabilities of different amps at different levels on the performance of a given speaker (maybe this is different amps sounding differently). If a given amp and speaker puts out a given dB at say 75% volume level, but a different amp is capable of reaching the same dB at 25% volume, is there any possibility that the efficiency of the stronger amplifier causes the speaker to perform better at any given output matched to a weaker amplifier?

 

[PENG]

Thanks PENG,

I think my question was poorly described, and may have illogical thought processes, which is why I feel like I still have the question.

There have been numerous discussions regarding different amps "sounding" different. No need to have this discussion in this thread (maybe...). My curiosity is regarding the capabilities of different amps at different levels on the performance of a given speaker (maybe this is different amps sounding differently). If a given amp and speaker puts out a given dB at say 75% volume level, but a different amp is capable of reaching the same dB at 25% volume, is there any possibility that the efficiency of the stronger amplifier causes the speaker to perform better at any given output matched to a weaker amplifier?

In my response I have already assumed what you did not ask, and asked in this follow up question.

That is why I mentioned 5 ft or less, and the linked SPL calculator for you to do some estimates yourself based on you distance and listening habits. You can see my hidden message to your hidden question now can't you?

Now let's take a look of some hard numbers:

At 5 ft or less, SVS Ultra bookshelf sensitivity: 87 dB, nominal impedance 8 ohms:
SPL calculated = 103.3 dB based on 2 speakers and with no/0 dB room gain, that's very loud!! Reference level is 105 dB/speaker.

So if you listen to only 93.3 dB max. peak and say 73.3 dB average that is still quite loud (too loud for me for sure), your little 50 W rated SMSL amp would be cruising at about 5 WPC during the loudest moment caused by a 20 dB peak.

For typical music listening, 20 dB peak would be rare, probably >90% of the time the peaks would be <10 dB. In that case it would only take 0.5 W for the 10 dB peak, or 0.05 W for the average 73.3 dB level.

Now if you increase the distance to 8 ft, you would lose 4 dB SPL, but then you really should factor in 2-3 dB room gain that would bring the perceived level back to 72.3 dB average, 92.3 dB max. peak.

More than 8 ft, I wouldn't consider it nearfield any more.

By the way, it is better to avoid using terms like 75%, 50% of volume level because it doesn't tell you much or anything. Using the spl calculator I linked would tell you a lot more, such as in this example it tells you that sitting at 8 ft, you will be able to hit 72.3 dB average, 92.3 dB peak when the SMSL amp output reaches 0.05 W average and 5 W maximum peak. So the 50 W rated amp would have at least 10 dB headroom on hand. What % of volume would you call it? It depends..

As they say, "people often don't realize how little power they actually need/use", and also "there is no such thing as too much power", both could be true at the same time. As always, it depends..

 

[the machine]

Thanks again PENG. I'm ignorant when it comes to speaker measurements and the science behind volume. I just like audio but always want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything, an audio FOMO if you will. That's the reason I shelled out 4k to upgrade my SVS PB 2000's to PB 16s, because I just had to know, even though my room is 16x20x8.5 and the 16s are overkill.

I have a pair of Primes I was going to use in this setup, at my work computer desk in my office, but again, FOMO, so before buying another pair of Ultras, I wanted to be sure I wouldn't be making an error if the combo didn't perform well.

 

[PENG]

I have a pair of Primes I was going to use in this setup, at my work computer desk in my office, but again, FOMO, so before buying another pair of Ultras, I wanted to be sure I wouldn't be making an error if the combo didn't perform well.

I think subjective reviews are mostly useless but in this case it may be noteworthy that the SMSL DA-9 doesn't seem to have any bad reviews (yet) on Amazon, not even 1 rated less than 4 stars. Typically you can expect at least a few 1 or 2 star ones among many reviews, even when the overall ratings are 5 Star.

There are also a lot to read about this little amp on ASR too, too bad no one has sent one in to be measured.

SMSL DA9 - Wait and see, or solid buy? | Page 2 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

I may even buy one for my desktop if I can find use for my NAD class AB amp for something else.

 

[the machine]

Yeah it seemed to be a great little amp, and perfect for my 72" desk, containing dual 43"inch monitors. Space is at a premium so I wanted something compact, and it was on sale, with eBay bonus bucks, so I hopped on it. Buy now, question later.

 

[PENG]

Yeah it seemed to be a great little amp, and perfect for my 72" desk, containing dual 43"inch monitors. Space is at a premium so I wanted something compact, and it was on sale, with eBay bonus bucks, so I hopped on it. Buy now, question later.

Have you considered ordering the AO200 instead for $30 more? It has an USB input and dual subwoofer out. I think I am going to go for it, to me it also looks better.

Amazon.com: S.M.S.L AO200 Digital Power Amplifier Bluetooth 5.0 MA12070×2 Chip 150W×150W USB/BT/XLR/RCA Input 2 Channel HiFi Desktop Amp with Remote Control for Subwoofer/Passive Speaker : Electronics

 

[the machine]

It wasn't out when I bought the DA-9. Plus, I was able to get the DA-9 for $220 on sale from shenzenaudio on eBay, with 5% eBay bucks back.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks again PENG. I'm ignorant when it comes to speaker measurements and the science behind volume. I just like audio but always want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything, an audio FOMO if you will. That's the reason I shelled out 4k to upgrade my SVS PB 2000's to PB 16s, because I just had to know, even though my room is 16x20x8.5 and the 16s are overkill.

I have a pair of Primes I was going to use in this setup, at my work computer desk in my office, but again, FOMO, so before buying another pair of Ultras, I wanted to be sure I wouldn't be making an error if the combo didn't perform well.

Most audio parameters are measured in dB (deciBels) which is a logarithmic/exponential (generally expressed in dB or deciBels) rather than linear function like a percentage. A percentage just isn't particularly meaningful, the volume position of a particular volume control on a particular make/model of gear is rather meaningless for comparison even if of same general type or volume "number". Much modern gear volume controls are expressed in dB to make it a bit easier to use IMO. Just turning it to "11" isn't particularly meaningful

Keep in mind it takes a doubling of amp power to gain a mere 3dB in spl (sound pressure level) so small variances in amp power are rather meaningless, but higher ratings into lower impedance come into play as well. A few things to consider in comparing certain specs.

 

[the machine]

So would I be wrong in saying hypothetically, a denon x8500 at 50% volume is putting out 79dB on a given speaker, where a marantz sr5011 at 65% volume is outputting 79db on the same speaker? I may be wrong here, but I think there is (was) an option to change the volume from -dB to a % on the screen of a receiver.

I guess I'm trying to say if one amp is using more of its power to reach the same output level of another amp, is there potential that one may sound different?

Here's an example of what I mean. Focal Kanta 2 specs recommend a 40-300w amp. There's a YT video review of the Focal Kanta 2, and they hook them up to Rotel Michi M8, which output 1080w at an 8 ohm load. What's the point (maybe just dickwaving)? Why not just use a mmichi x3 at 350wpc?

If we had a 50wpc amp, and a 100wpc amp, designed exactly the same, by the same company, one just had more power, is there any chance of different audible sound if both amps were set to a level that output the same dB?

Again, sorry if I'm being redundant, I'm just dumb when it comes to this

 

[Pogre]

If we had a 50wpc amp, and a 100wpc amp, designed exactly the same, by the same company, one just had more power, is there any chance of different audible sound if both amps were set to a level that output the same dB?

No, unless you're reaching limits with the less powerful amp.

If you're only using say, 10 watts, whether is 50 wpc or 100 wpc won't make a difference. Whether you have 40 watts or 90 watts sitting unused, it's sitting unused and has no effect on sq unless you're exceeding limits with the smaller amp. Speaker sensitivity and seating distance are a lot more useful for figuring out power needs than published power handling specs. Did you play around with the spl calculator Peng linked? It's a neat tool useful for demonstrating the relation between power and spl.

Peak SPL Calculator

If you're using Ultra books nearfield then I'd think 50 watts would be plenty. Unless you like it really loud...

 

[j_garcia]

A more powerful amp will sound better when you crank it up to higher SPLs because it can produce that SPL with lower distortion, but if you aren't cranking it to that level to actually make use of that power, you won't hear any difference at all from the additional power.

 

[Pogre]

Using that SPL calculator, with 87 dB sensitivity (SVS Ultra books) at a distance of 5' you have almost enough power with 50 watts to hit peak reference levels. That's really, really loud. You could listen to music at 90 dB with room for 10 dB peaks with 50 watts with no problem at 5', and 90 dB is still really loud. Unsafe actually, if you're listening at that level for any extended period of time.

*Edit: note also that it only takes 10 watts to hit 96 dB at 5'. I think most folks don't use more than a couple of watts on average.

 

[the machine]

Ok all, thanks for the replies. One of the other things I had been considering was upgrading my Marantz 7012 to the Denon x8500HA. My guess is that there is likely no audible benefit in doing this. I do not listen anywhere remotely near reference level.

 

[Pogre]

Ok all, thanks for the replies. One of the other things I had been considering was upgrading my Marantz 7012 to the Denon x8500HA. My guess is that there is likely no audible benefit in doing this. I do not listen anywhere remotely near reference level.

It's all in the speakers and room interaction. Once you have sufficient power for your needs it all comes down to features with receivers/amplification. The 7012 is a great receiver and unless you need the latest, newest in connections and 8k then I don't see any reason to get the 8500.

In fact, if you have 8500 money I'd be looking at next level speakers and put it to work there. That's where you'll realize audible improvements in sq.

 

[PENG]

So would I be wrong in saying hypothetically, a denon x8500 at 50% volume is putting out 79dB on a given speaker, where a marantz sr5011 at 65% volume is outputting 79db on the same speaker? I may be wrong here, but I think there is (was) an option to change the volume from -dB to a % on the screen of a receiver.

Again, as other mentioned, forget about the % thing. It means little especially when the D+M AVR's volume scales are logarithmic. You can only set it to the relative scale or absolute scale. There is no option to change it to display %, if it did, it wouldn't be useful/meaningful anyway.

I think it is important for you to have a clear understanding on this topic by reading the following carefully:
Relative and Absolute Volume Ranges (marantz.com)

I guess I'm trying to say if one amp is using more of its power to reach the same output level of another amp, is there potential that one may sound different?

@Pogre and others explained this already so I don't have to.

Here's an example of what I mean. Focal Kanta 2 specs recommend a 40-300w amp. There's a YT video review of the Focal Kanta 2, and they hook them up to Rotel Michi M8, which output 1080w at an 8 ohm load. What's the point (maybe just dickwaving)? Why not just use a mmichi x3 at 350wpc?

Right, there would be no point if you only need a maximum of 300 W for your listening habits. It would make a difference if you actually need much more than 350 W for your listening habits during the maximum peaks of the music contents you listen to.

If we had a 50wpc amp, and a 100wpc amp, designed exactly the same, by the same company, one just had more power, is there any chance of different audible sound if both amps were set to a level that output the same dB?

Same answer as above, there is a chance of audible difference if you do need more than 50 W during the highest peak of the music contents you listen to, otherwise there would be no chance of that, all else being equal. Again, the most important thing is, how much power do you need under the worst condition, and that would depend on you listening habits, distance and your speaker's impedance and sensitivity characteristics.

Again, sorry if I'm being redundant, I'm just dumb when it comes to this

Actually you asked all the right questions, I hope you now have the right answers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Like the others are saying. For your example of the Denon vs Marantz, if calibrated with the same speakers in same room at same distance, the volume scale readings on your Marantz would be the same ideally (or very close), to that on the Denon. The volume scale just wouldn't tell you how many watts you're consuming at the moment without some calculations. You can see how little 3dB (a doubling of power) is in your Marantz by increasing the volume reading by 3....