Cross Party Condemnation of Joe Biden, by UK Parliament, as He is Held in Contempt.

[Trell]

I stated that in another thread and 'Trell the troll' accused me of more fake news, so tread lightly !

Says 'Mikado463 the Russian Asset Wannabe' not realising that the Russians have standards.

 

[highfigh]

It's not quite as simple as saying they had 300,000 men and were given lots of sophisticated equipment.
‘Please Don’t Leave Us Behind. We Will Be Great Americans.’ - The Bulwark

Taliban Seizes Billions in US-Supplied Weaponry

The Taliban has seized billions of dollars’ worth of U.S.-supplied military equipment in Afghanistan following their rapid defeat of government forces in that country. Images of Taliban fighters posing with U.S.-made supplies are circulating widely in the media, The Hill’s Rebecca Kheel reports...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

Taliban Seizes Billions in US-Supplied Weaponry

The Taliban has seized billions of dollars’ worth of U.S.-supplied military equipment in Afghanistan following their rapid defeat of government forces in that country. Images of Taliban fighters posing with U.S.-made supplies are circulating widely in the media, The Hill’s Rebecca Kheel reports...

finance.yahoo.com

Not sure what point you're making, but the Taliban won't be able to make use of the more sophisticated gear.

 

[highfigh]

Not sure what point you're making, but the Taliban won't be able to make use of the more sophisticated gear.

I wouldn't be so sure about that but I think they can get help from "advisors' from other countries, who should never have access to our equipment. Like Russia or China.

If they get our technology, we won't have the edge we need.

 

[Jeepers]

I wouldn't be so sure about that but I think they can get help from "advisors' from other countries, who should never have access to our equipment. Like Russia or China.

If they get our technology, we won't have the edge we need.

It's more likely the Taliban will sell high technological gear, requiring knowledge to use/maintain, to China or Russia. Unless this is what you meant with 'help from advisors'.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I wouldn't be so sure about that but I think they can get help from "advisors' from other countries, who should never have access to our equipment. Like Russia or China.

If they get our technology, we won't have the edge we need.

I don't see anything that would be of particular interest to Russia or China. That's if the list is complete, of course. While some of the gear given to them by the US may be modern, I can't picture the Afghans being given the latest and greatest gear.
List of equipment of the Afghan National Army - Wikipedia
List of Afghan Air Force aircraft - Wikipedia

 

[panteragstk]

It’s worth repeating this part of Zakaria's column:

The USA wasn't the first to try that. England (1830-1914), and the USSR (1980-90) tried and failed at that. If you go back in history far enough you'll find others (Alexander the Great) who had similar bad experience in that part of the world.

Others in this thread have suggested that the USA failed to succeed at nation building in Afghanistan, citing the long British colonial experience in India as an example where it was successful. It ignores nearly a century that England spent trying to occupy Afghanistan. Their first effort ended in disaster in 1842. Afterwards, subsequent governments in London realized their real goal was not military conquest of Afghanistan, but to defend their Indian colony from expanding Imperial Russia. So they set up a friendlier king in Afghanistan, and paid him to block Russian expansion. That effort succeeded, but didn't really end until the lead up to WW1.

First Anglo-Afghan War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great Game - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Glad someone else said this. I was worried people didn't know some of the history of that region.

There is a joke along the lines of "we can all agree that the British are the absolute worst at drawing lines on a map"

Pretty sure I butchered it, but that's the gist.

 

[highfigh]

It's more likely the Taliban will sell high technological gear, requiring knowledge to use/maintain, to China or Russia. Unless this is what you meant with 'help from advisors'.

That's part of it- if the US military doesn't have ways to destroy the control/guidance systems remotely, we're screwed. I do know they use telemetry systems, so I hope they thought to include a self-destruct command. Maybe, it would look like the Staples Office Supply 'Easy Button', where it starts to blink and when it's pressed, the whole fleet blows up.

 

[highfigh]

I don't see anything that would be of particular interest to Russia or China. That's if the list is complete, of course. While some of the gear given to them by the US may be modern, I can't picture the Afghans being given the latest and greatest gear.
List of equipment of the Afghan National Army - Wikipedia
List of Afghan Air Force aircraft - Wikipedia

The technology wouldn't be of interest? Seriously?

I don't know when that Wiki article was updated, but they seem to have missed EVERYTHING that's in the country at the present time.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The technology wouldn't be of interest? Seriously?

I don't know when that Wiki article was updated, but they seem to have missed EVERYTHING that's in the country at the present time.

Well, do you know what gear was given to them?

 

[Swerd]

There is a joke along the lines of "we can all agree that the British are the absolute worst at drawing lines on a map".

It may have been repeated as a joke, but those miss-drawn map lines were exactly what the British intended in their colonies – divide and conquer. Different segments of the populations of those colonies were encouraged to fight each other instead of the British colonial government.

In the colonial days both in the US and in Canada, the British armed some native tribes but not others, intending to foment wars among those tribes.

Similar things were done in Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Right after WW1, the Treaty of Versailles granted Great Britain rule over most of the former Ottoman Empire, running from today's Turkey, through the Middle East including the present-day nations of Iraq, Palestine (Israel), Jordan, and those other states of the Arabian Peninsula. (I believe the French got to run what is today Syria and Lebanon.) The Ottoman Empire had for centuries been carved up into a number of different emirates that largely governed themselves. Right away, the British drew new political divisions that ignored those historic emirate borders. They intended to divide and conquer. Once the British left the Middle East, their new borders continued, and were the source of numerous conflicts in that part of the world.

 

[Dan]

It’s worth repeating this part of Zakaria's column:

The USA wasn't the first to try that. England (1830-1914), and the USSR (1980-90) tried and failed at that. If you go back in history far enough you'll find others (Alexander the Great) who had similar bad experience in that part of the world.

Others in this thread have suggested that the USA failed to succeed at nation building in Afghanistan, citing the long British colonial experience in India as an example where it was successful. It ignores nearly a century that England spent trying to occupy Afghanistan. Their first effort ended in disaster in 1842. Afterwards, subsequent governments in London realized their real goal was not military conquest of Afghanistan, but to defend their Indian colony from expanding Imperial Russia. So they set up a friendlier king in Afghanistan, and paid him to block Russian expansion. That effort succeeded, but didn't really end until the lead up to WW1.

First Anglo-Afghan War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great Game - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If one thinks the US exit was bad, it is nothing compared to the British exit from Kabul in 1842. Essentially the entire English army (mostly Indian) and all of the camp followers were killed. If one wants more details I recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game" which explains much of the English attitude in India and the views of the expanding Russian Empire up till WW 1. Great hostorical reading and really the first "cold war".

Fun fiction is the first of the "Flashman" series by George MacDonald Fraser. Flashman was a sort of 19th century Forrest Gump present at everything of import and subtly having an impact on things all while cleverly fitting into the actual historical narrative. Wickedly funny. He was "at" the first Afghan war, the Indian mutiny, Harper's Ferry with John Brown, the charge of the Light Brigade, Custer's stand and both sides of the US civil war to name a few

 

[Mikado463]

Thanks for the History lesson gents, kinda proves we didn't learn much from the past ........

 

[Dan]

Thanks for the History lesson gents, kinda proves we didn't learn much from the past ........

Yep it would have done us a world of good if those chicken hawks under Bush the younger who pushed for war but had never served had read those books before diving in with such arrogance.

 

[Mikado463]

Yep it would have done us a world of good if those chicken hawks under Bush the younger who pushed for war but had never served had read those books before diving in with such arrogance.

while I basically agree with you I suspect 911 granted him a 'get out of jail' card. Not that it made all actions to follow prudent or wise. I will also admit given all the recent turmoil I do wonder about border security.

Crazy times we live in now .......

 

[Dan]

while I basically agree with you I suspect 911 granted him a 'get out of jail' card. Not that it made all actions to follow prudent or wise. I will also admit given all the recent turmoil I do wonder about border security.

Crazy times we live in now .......

Oh I am not saying the war in Afghanistan was wrong or unjustified. One can't harbor the terrorists for 9/11 without consequences. But trying to link Iraq to it all was a stretch that demanded greater effort when the target should have been solely Afghanistan. There was insufficient effort in Afghanistan early on. The Bush 2 administration showed incredible hubris in thinking they could create a democracy there and that it would be simple. They really didn't have a plan. Many sources support those facts but I'm working and don't have time to look them up right now.

 

[highfigh]

Well, do you know what gear was given to them?

If OUR people were there, it's highly unlikely that the US military would send them with old materiel.

 

[EthicalEar]

History lessons are about history. IMHO it's the press. Some press were saying we broke promises. Okay what promise? And escalated this to be the horror story that is now presented to us. Fake? No. Fear and ignorance? Yes. U.S. People or Foreign Nationals who work in Afghanistan for any reason are well aware of the risks. They chose to be there. I'd bet many really did not want to return here unless they had no choice. The press seems to be showing interpreters and Afghan citizens that want to leave and cannot. There was no good way to handle anything planned or not. The plan had been to leave. The Taliban is letting the appropriate people leave I think. I haven't heard of any U.S. citizens publicly executed. Agree with those that understand the "How it was Handled" arguers would argue about anything. To me the Taliban is a street gang. Imposing their will on anyone they can. Difficult to predict and planning for the worst is not an option, for what plan could be made? The fact is people just don't like it. I also don't like it. They had a decade to figure out a way to stop this from happening. How do we stop gangs in America? I am a human who feels that some Muslims need to change their belief of inequalities and get into the present day world. Do they not love their daughters as much as their sons? WTF? I agree we could not stay, because nothing works to try and change their long proven wrong moralities. It's not Biden. It's not Trump. Its not the civilized world. It's the Taliban. Wake up Press and blame the appropriate. Press should spend their time and money helping that country and see how far every $ ever spent gets them. I'm no genius but if you think "the way this was handled" is any decent person's fault then spell out how. Don't blame without an endgame. I am glad America did give every effort and all Afghanistan seemed to want is us to wipe their butts or leave.

 

[Mikado463]

While this video is not directly relevant to the current topic it does offer a viewpoint that perhaps will make one pause/ponder what could be. Especially given all the back and forth we seem to have here in the 'Steam Vent'.

We'll get through this Afghan mess but the big picture will remain.

I know, this vid is a couple years old but the point remains ..........

 

[Danzilla31]

In just reading and trying to understand more about this situation I came across this some interesting points