Tonewinner at300 thoughts?

[Klipschoholic]

Hello,

Has anyone tried the tonewinner at300? Have a denon 4500 but have all external amplifiers and wondering if a preamp would have better channel separation etc?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello,

Has anyone tried the tonewinner at300? Have a denon 4500 but have all external amplifiers and wondering if a preamp would have better channel separation etc?

Never heard of it before, but it seems to be a rebadged Emotiva product, and therefore likely junk. I would give it a wide berth.

 

[lovinthehd]

How do the crosstalk specs compare?

 

[Klipschoholic]

Really wondering about this pre amp and how good it is. Was looking at marnatz 7706 but don't think it measures that good or even better than the denon 4500. I'd like to go to xlr its says the xlr pre out is max 9v.

 

[lovinthehd]

Think you should order it and send it to ASR or Audioholics for testing! The Marantz pre-pros haven't generally measured any better than the Denon avrs, tho. Why do you need xlr?

 

[Klipschoholic]

Think you should order it and send it to ASR or Audioholics for testing! The Marantz pre-pros haven't generally measured any better than the Denon avrs, tho. Why do you need xlr?

Well I found out my rca's are causing a buzz in my speakers. I have blue jean cable rca's and have tried many others. When I disconnect them the buzz goes away. I bought a blue jean cable hum isolator and that made it less noticeable, but I would like to try xlr and see if that would break up the noise. And I hear preamps are suppose to sound better all a round rather than using an avr.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well I found out my rca's are causing a buzz in my speakers. I have blue jean cable rca's and have tried many others. When I disconnect them the buzz goes away. I bought a blue jean cable hum isolator and that made it less noticeable, but I would like to try xlr and see if that would break up the noise. And I hear preamps are suppose to sound better all a round rather than using an avr.

Sounds like something other than your pre-pro/avr at issue with the rca thing, perhaps a better investigation of cause there is needed, altho perhaps a balanced connection may help. Do you have a very long run between the avr and amp? Can't imagine the difference between a pre-pro and the avr being different audibly different, especially those that claim differences like that in general (nor has been born out even with my old analog 2ch pre-amps as compared to my avrs/power amps). I'd wait on the Tonewinner stuff in any case unless you want to be a guinea pig particularly

 

[Klipschoholic]

I've tried a lot of different things. Every cable has been replaced, different outlets and brand new ones, completely running cables away from eachother etc but no luck. Idk why people say a preamp makes channel separation better and it's like taking a curtain off your speakers lol.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've tried a lot of different things. Every cable has been replaced, different outlets and brand new ones, completely running cables away from eachother etc but no luck. Idk why people say a preamp makes channel separation better and it's like taking a curtain off your speakers lol.

Ground loop issues of some sort I assume? Ever determine a particular source if so?

People say lots of silly things about pre-conceived notions about audio gear that have little to do with reality.

 

[Klipschoholic]

Ground loop issues of some sort I assume? Ever determine a particular source if so?

People say lots of silly things about pre-conceived notions about audio gear that have little to do with reality.

That is true lol. It seems to be coming from the rca from the sub amp crown xli3500 to the avr. Tried my all my amps on a different circuit and still and the same issue. My 2 crown xls 2502 speaker amps just hooked up do not cause the hum when the xli amp isn't hooked up.

 

[lovinthehd]

That is true lol. It seems to be coming from the rca from the sub amp crown xli3500 to the avr. Tried my all my amps on a different circuit and still and the same issue. My 2 crown xls 2502 speaker amps just hooked up do not cause the hum when the xli amp isn't hooked up.

Have you tried simply lifting the ground (like with a cheater plug) on the xli amp to see if that makes a difference? If anything it's from the avr to the crown, tho (signal direction). Maybe just get another xls amp and get rid of the xli

 

[Klipschoholic]

Have you tried simply lifting the ground (like with a cheater plug) on the xli amp to see if that makes a difference? If anything it's from the avr to the crown, tho (signal direction). Maybe just get another xls amp and get rid of the xli

Yeah tried the cheater plug and no luck. I was going to try one a of the xls amps for my sub amp and keep another xls amp on my l/r speakers and see if the issue is there. I have klipsch klfs and c7 and they pickup any noise I swear from being sensitive.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah tried the cheater plug and no luck. I was going to try one a of the xls amps for my sub amp and keep another xls amp on my l/r speakers and see if the issue is there. I have klipsch klfs and c7 and they pickup any noise I swear from being sensitive.

I was being a bit facetious but changing out the non-problematic xls and the xli could be interesting, could be a fault in the xli. I've not had an issue with any of my xls amps aside from a ground loop issue in my previous house (not an issue in my current one).

 

[Klipschoholic]

I was being a bit facetious but changing out the non-problematic xls and the xli could be interesting, could be a fault in the xli. I've not had an issue with any of my xls amps aside from a ground loop issue in my previous house (not an issue in my current one).

Lol well it really makes me wonder if the xli amp is faulty or what not. I have it +6 in my avr for the subs to make them move at -30 volume on my avr. I feel like I shouldn't have to run it that hot to get them moving. At 0 on the sub level on the avr I'd have to turn up the volume at good amount to have them moving. The subs are 2 sunfires with 2 passive radiators in each one.

 

[lovinthehd]

Lol well it really makes me wonder if the xli amp is faulty or what not. I have it +6 in my avr for the subs to make them move at -30 volume on my avr. I feel like I shouldn't have to run it that hot to get them moving. At 0 on the sub level on the avr I'd have to turn up the volume at good amount to have them moving. The subs are 2 sunfires with 2 passive radiators in each one.

Hard to know what that means about hot/moving (poor terminology if anything). Sunfire subs aren't something I'd use either, tho....maybe 20 years ago.

 

[Klipschoholic]

Hard to know what that means about hot/moving (poor terminology if anything). Sunfire subs aren't something I'd use either, tho....maybe 20 years ago.

Oh sorry I feel like I should have to have them in the level in the plus range in the avr with the gain controls max and sensitivity at .775 to get them moving even at -30 volume on the avr. Each channel is rated at 1350w on xli so I'm wondering if it's a preout voltage issue or something.

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh sorry I feel like I should have to have them in the level in the plus range in the avr with the gain controls max and sensitivity at .775 to get them moving even at -30 volume on the avr. Each channel is rated at 1350w on xli so I'm wondering if it's a preout voltage issue or something.

So your Sunfires are passive versions? Or you've extended their lives with external amps or something? If you have sensitivity at .775 hard to imagine needing to max out the gain controls but have no idea what you mean by "moving even at -30 volume".

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind your preference may not be reference.

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh sorry I feel like I should have to have them in the level in the plus range in the avr with the gain controls max and sensitivity at .775 to get them moving even at -30 volume on the avr. Each channel is rated at 1350w on xli so I'm wondering if it's a preout voltage issue or something.

The RCAs are not causing the buzz in your system, and XLRs will be no better in that regard.

The first thing to understand is that a ground loop by definition is a potential between grounds, so that a current will flow between the grounds. So changing cables and outlets is not a solution.

What you have to do is find the ground, or grounds, that are not at system ground.

A very frequent cause of ground loops are cable systems and Ethernet connections.

So this is how you go about isolating a ground loop.

First you just plug in the power amp. Now with everything disconnected from the receiver or preamp except the power cable, connect it to the power amp with your RCA cables. Is there hum? If not then the receiver/preamp are at the same ground potential as the power amp. If there is hum then there is a faulty grounding in either one of those units.

If no hum, then connect the cable system to the rig. If you have hum then the ground loop is coming from the cable system. If there is hum disconnect the cable system. If no hum, then leave it connected. Now connect the Ethernet cable. If no hum leave it, if hum disconnect it.

Now do this for every unit that is connected to the system. This way you will identify which unit or units are causing the ground loop.

Once you have completed and identified all ground loop sources report back and I will suggest potential solutions.

 

[Klipschoholic]

So your Sunfires are passive versions? Or you've extended their lives with external amps or something? If you have sensitivity at .775 hard to imagine needing to max out the gain controls but have no idea what you mean by "moving even at -30 volume".

The sunfires are hrs12. Took the plate amp off then and added 2 passive radiators on each sub box. Using the xli 3500 to power them. Well I guess what I mean by "not moving even at -30db volume on the denon" is the subwoofers don't create much of a sound at -30db volume on the denon even at +6db level in the denon. I usually have to increase the volume to -15db on the denon for them to create some good bass. The sunfire subs are in their original boxes and air tight. I cannot get the xli amp to even clip without the subwoofers connected. So I was thinking the denon should have more than enough preout voltage to make the amp clip. So that is where my thought of getting a pre amp with xlr would create more preout voltage based on specs of xlr preout voltage on pre amps.