Looking to upgrade cartridge for Marantz 6300

S

scottyb70

Audioholic Intern
Hi,

Well I found out my Shure M91Ed won't be the adequate for my system set up, so I am looking for a better cartridge within 500-1000 range.
From what I have read alot has to deal with tone arm weight and the cartridge should be bright sounding.
I am looking at a Hana or another shure cartridge or similar. I will mostly be listening to 80's music like Phil Collins, boston, etc.

Marantz 6300 with stock aluminum tone arm
Salk Song Towers
Willsenton R8
Decware ZP3 phono stage
Trying to find a cheap phono stage while I wait for decware
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi,

Well I found out my Shure M91Ed won't be the adequate for my system set up, so I am looking for a better cartridge within 500-1000 range.
From what I have read alot has to deal with tone arm weight and the cartridge should be bright sounding.
I am looking at a Hana or another shure cartridge or similar. I will mostly be listening to 80's music like Phil Collins, boston, etc.

Marantz 6300 with stock aluminum tone arm
Salk Song Towers
Willsenton R8
Decware ZP3 phono stage
Trying to find a cheap phono stage while I wait for decware
Shure cartridges, are unfortunately no longer made. In that price range, I would recommend the Ortofon Black.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Trying to find a cheap phono stage while I wait for decware
I suggest you try the Audio-Technica AT-PEQ3. It's a proven winner, and at $74, you can't miss. It will work well with any moving magnet cartridge, including the Ortofon 2M Black that TLS Guy recommended.

You may find that you like it enough to keep it instead of that Decware phono stage you're waiting for. I've used one for years with my SongTowers. More recently, I replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers, but I still use the PEQ3.
 
Last edited:
S

scottyb70

Audioholic Intern
I suggest you try the Audio-Technica AT-PEQ3. It's a proven winner, and at $74, you can't miss. It will work well with any moving magnet cartridge, including the Ortofon 2M Black that TLS Guy recommended.

You may find that you like it enough to keep it instead of that Decware phono stage you're waiting for. I've used one for years with my SongTowers. More recently, I replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers, but I still use the PEQ3.
Just ordered the Ortofon 2M Black seems like it's getting alot of great reviews. Should get it this weekend.

About the phono stage, I am assuming I may not notice a big difference between the Decware and Audio Technica? I am more of a person that wants the best bang for buck and I don't believe in hype or snobbery. I am reading up on the Audio Technica right now and I would prefer a phono stage with tubes because my understanding is if I have a tube amp I should have a tube pre amp? Could you recommend a good tube pre amp that could compete with the Decware? I found out about this guy on ebay. What do you think of his builds?

 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Just ordered the Ortofon 2M Black seems like it's getting alot of great reviews. Should get it this weekend.

About the phono stage, I am assuming I may not notice a big difference between the Decware and Audio Technica? I am more of a person that wants the best bang for buck and I don't believe in hype or snobbery. I am reading up on the Audio Technica right now and I would prefer a phono stage with tubes because my understanding is if I have a tube amp I should have a tube pre amp? Could you recommend a good tube pre amp that could compete with the Decware? I found out about this guy on ebay. What do you think of his builds?

No, you can mix solid state and tubes. Tubes will cost you more, but not sound better. Good modern IC preamp chips that cost a few cents, objectively beat tubes any day on multiple parameters. RIAA phone stages are really pretty simple, although their are some variations, especially in gain. Probably the absolute best circuit, is the one by Lindsey Hood, although I don't know if any commercial units use his circuit. It is a solid state IC based preamp.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What's inadequate about the Shure for your use? How did you "find out" that it wasn't particularly adequate?
 
S

scottyb70

Audioholic Intern
I came across Darlington labs and they are a US company that makes Phono Preamps. They sell themselves really well anyone else have any experience with them?

 
Last edited:
S

scottyb70

Audioholic Intern
What's inadequate about the Shure for your use? How did you "find out" that it wasn't particularly adequate?
Someone told me the Shure is a lower end cartridge with a mediocre signal and I won't get the best sound out of my current setup.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
What's inadequate about the Shure for your use? How did you "find out" that it wasn't particularly adequate?
The Shure M91Ed was a good middle range cartridge. However the V15 series was a big audible step up, especially the Shure V 15 xmr, which many, including myself, regard as the best cartridge of all time. The Ortofon Black is widely recognized as its closest replacement. The improvement will be audible as long as the rest of his system is of commensurate standard.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The Shure M91Ed was a good middle range cartridge. However the V15 series was a big audible step up, especially the Shure V 15 xmr, which many, including myself, regard as the best cartridge of all time. The Ortofon Black is widely recognized as its closest replacement. The improvement will be audible as long as the rest of his system is of commensurate standard.
Yes, I've owned M91ED as well as a V-15 III, but personally didn't find them all that different and believe it immediately followed the M91ED that was around 40-50 years ago nor was there any real way to compare with my single player more than casual listening comparison, but I was assured by the audiophile press and the sales folk that it would be a vast improvement otoh.....nor did I notice much differences with other brands of cartridges from various makes in that range over the years but they all functioned quite well, no complaints nor one being greatly different from another. Maybe the lack of quality in the vinyl predominates, not sure (I did notice a quality difference when cds came around that I never found with vinyl/cartridges/different tts). I do have what is likely my last cartridge at the rate I play vinyl these days, a Shure M97xE (which you also have I believe), which I'd also say is quite functional (and used to be reasonably priced....it's gone way up as NOS where you can find it).

I was more curious what the OP's reason/experience was.....was it just an excessively worn cartridge (I assume the M91ED was used)? Something he experienced or just read about as far as say tone arm mass/resonance issues? Why does one need a "bright" cartridge for that matter? Is the Ortofon Black a "bright" cartridge?

Wonder what's available in Shure these days, too.....NOS at very high prices is what I've seen for the M97xE but don't recall much else out there except replacement styli.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, I've owned M91ED as well as a V-15 III, but personally didn't find them all that different and believe it immediately followed the M91ED that was around 40-50 years ago nor was there any real way to compare with my single player more than casual listening comparison, but I was assured by the audiophile press and the sales folk that it would be a vast improvement otoh.....nor did I notice much differences with other brands of cartridges from various makes in that range over the years but they all functioned quite well, no complaints nor one being greatly different from another. Maybe the lack of quality in the vinyl predominates, not sure (I did notice a quality difference when cds came around that I never found with vinyl/cartridges/different tts). I do have what is likely my last cartridge at the rate I play vinyl these days, a Shure M97xE (which you also have I believe), which I'd also say is quite functional (and used to be reasonably priced....it's gone way up as NOS where you can find it).

I was more curious what the OP's reason/experience was.....was it just an excessively worn cartridge (I assume the M91ED was used)? Something he experienced or just read about as far as say tone arm mass/resonance issues? Why does one need a "bright" cartridge for that matter? Is the Ortofon Black a "bright" cartridge?

Wonder what's available in Shure these days, too.....NOS at very high prices is what I've seen for the M97xE but don't recall much else out there except replacement styli.
The biggest advantage, of those later V15 cartridges is their ability to track high modulation on the inside grooves. The classical recordings so often end with a big loud flourish on the inside grooves, where the speed under the stylus is lowest due to the short radius. So that ends up being a cartridge torture test. In my view the shure V 15 xmr series are unparalled in this regard. In addition the bass response is deeper and better defined. The top end is also more extended and open, giving excellent reproduction on the high strings and brass. At least on my speakers the improvement in cartridge design and performance improved significantly over the years. The other issue is the arm. You can not assess cartridge performance without taking into account the arm it is attached to. The SME MK III arms were specifically designed to mate with the those Shure V 15 series cartridges. Decca while Stan Kelley was in charge of that division, made sure that the Decca ffss heads would only fit Decca arms, or the SME series II arms with the special adaptor.

Matching arm and cartridge is a lost art, but it is actually crucial. The sad fact is that cartridges in general sit on arms they are not well matched to. Finally the loading capacitance of cartridges is all over the map. Only SME, and especially the Quad 44 preamp, allow for easy optimization of the loading capacitance.

The end result is that the performance most vinyl enthusiasts get from their turntables is way short of the achievable. The vinyl LP is actually capable of outstanding reproduction.

Having said all that, if you think loading a CD into pretty much any deck, or streaming a lossless feed, is a lot easier, you would be correct. For the mass of listeners it gives much more consistent results. To get really high quality from vinyl discs, you actually do have to go to a lot of trouble and understand what you are going. This is not audiophilia and in no way comparable to "funny wire". It is founded on sound electro/mechanical principles and foundation.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The biggest advantage, of those later V15 cartridges is their ability to track high modulation on the inside grooves. The classical recordings so often end with a big loud flourish on the inside grooves, where the speed under the stylus is lowest due to the short radius. So that ends up being a cartridge torture test. In my view the shure V 15 xmr series are unparalled in this regard. In addition the bass response is deeper and better defined. The top end is also more extended and open, giving excellent reproduction on the high strings and brass. At least on my speakers the improvement in cartridge design and performance improved significantly over the years. The other issue is the arm. You can not assess cartridge performance without taking into account the arm it is attached to. The SME MK III arms were specifically designed to mate with the those Shure V 15 series cartridges. Decca while Stan Kelley was in charge of that division, made sure that the Decca ffss heads would only fit Decca arms, or the SME series II arms with the special adaptor.

Matching arm and cartridge is a lost art, but it is actually crucial. The sad fact is that cartridges in general sit on arms they are not well matched to. Finally the loading capacitance of cartridges is all over the map. Only SME, and especially the Quad 44 preamp, allow for easy optimization of the loading capacitance.

The end result is that the performance most vinyl enthusiasts get from their turntables is way short of the achievable. The vinyl LP is actually capable of outstanding reproduction.

Having said all that, if you think loading a CD into pretty much any deck, or streaming a lossless feed, is a lot easier, you would be correct. For the mass of listeners it gives much more consistent results. To get really high quality from vinyl discs, you actually do have to go to a lot of trouble and understand what you are going. This is not audiophilia and in no way comparable to "funny wire". It is founded on sound electro/mechanical principles and foundation.
Yes its a shame you need so much specialized playback gear and setup time to get just decent results from vinyl, just another reason not to bother except for the nostalgia involved. It's just got too many issues and needs too much fussing.....IME and IMO. If looking for something to fuss with and agonize over every little detail, then vinyl is the way to go....for meh results all too often. Vinyl can sound very good, when pressed well (no warps, center hole punched accurately helps as well) and mastered well....I even had a friend once say hey that sounds almost like a cd after listening a bit and not realizing a record was playing before I had to get up and flip the damn thing :)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes its a shame you need so much specialized playback gear and setup time to get just decent results from vinyl, just another reason not to bother except for the nostalgia involved. It's just got too many issues and needs too much fussing.....IME and IMO. If looking for something to fuss with and agonize over every little detail, then vinyl is the way to go....for meh results all too often. Vinyl can sound very good, when pressed well (no warps, center hole punched accurately helps as well) and mastered well....I even had a friend once say hey that sounds almost like a cd after listening a bit and not realizing a record was playing before I had to get up and flip the damn thing :)
I am always amazed at how good LP reproduction can be. When you really look at it, everything is against it. So it is small wonder superlative results are the preserve of the obsessional.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am always amazed at how good LP reproduction can be. When you really look at it, everything is against it. So it is small wonder superlative results are the preserve of the obsessional.
Oh no doubt it is somewhat amazing it works so well....even without some fancy rig to squeeze the bits out with.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top