New Build + Nooby

[T34J0K3R]

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to this so please forgive me if I'm being dumb with this post and forgive my lack of knowledge.

I'm currently in the process of building a separated HiFi system. I'm not going to be spending a huge amount. I just want something that works and will work for the foreseeable.

I have very little hardware and knowledge at present. Though I have once installed an Amp and Subwoofer in my car with some assistance, I found the impedance a little hard to understand; in any case, it's irrelevant to this post.

So at present, I have 2 x 702e Mission Floorstanding speakers. Along with a single M7C2 Centre Mission speaker. I was actually given them by a work colleague about a year ago. At the time he said you have 2 options Surround or Stereo Amp.

I've had a look around, and I've decided to go down the Stereo Route.

My intentions are Amp(DAB+FM Radio) + CD Player + Turntable + Cassette(Maybe - Havent found one yet).

The Hardware I'm looking at is:
AMP: Denon DRA800H (Black) £499 - Richersounds
CD - Denon DCD600NE (Black) £239 - Richersounds
Turntable - Denon DP300 £249 -Richersounds

The above mention Richersounds, but I'll shop around.

The Amp is going to be connected to my Gaming Rig, using either HDMI or Optical. The CD, Turntable and potentially Cassette will be connected to the AMP using phono cables.

The Amp will then have some cables going out from the Outputs to both of my floor standing 702e's.

So my questions.
1) Is it worth using the Mission M7C2 Centre speaker, if so how will I connect this to the amp? As its central will, I have to bridge the left and right channels?

2) The 2 Mission 702e's have 4 connections. I'm assuming for HF and LF. How will I connect these to the Amp?

3) My colleague previously mentioned using either Butterfly clips/plugs or Banana Plugs to connect the speakers up. I'm not really sure about this. Any advice would be much appreciated.

4) What Cassette Players would you recommend?

5) Could someone give me some kind of idea about impedance. 4 vs 8, 8 vs 16 etc. What effect does it have on sound, if any at all?

I have no doubt some of my questions may seem stupid and maybe laughable, but I am a total noob.

Any recommendations? Do you think it will sound good? I've not tested the 702e's or the M7C2 yet, I know that they are quite old. So is it even worth using them? Or should I look at something else, they were a freebie though. Advice on the plugs or clips would be much appreciated. I've attached some photos of the hardware at present. I'm guessing that the clips my colleague was talking about are on image 4. Note that I only have the speakers at the moment, so I am more than happy to accept suggestions if what I'm thinking of getting is not good enough.

Thanks,
Ash

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

Well, I would definitely wait to buy anything. I'm not sure it's worth putting the amount you're describing into the Reciever, CD player and Turntable (almost 1k sterling? Yikes) just to drive some old speakers. You're far better off getting high quality speakers with that budget and put half that into the source gear instead. I cannot tell directly from experience with your speakers, but the back of them have the two posts which normally is there for bi-amping (which is pointless honestly) but usually have a coupling to allow them to all be connected and driven by a single channel. That's not there, so I assume these are only going to be driven by actually bi-amping them. Ugh. You can see the difference on that 4th image, where the plates connect the two posts, so that one channel drives it all (to avoid needing to separately wire, or bi-amp them). Frankly I would set these speakers aside and if your interest is to get into audio, get something new, complete and something you like the sound of.

1) Probably not. It's totally find to run a 3 channel setup and could be fun if you're running the receiver in a surround mode to upmix stereo content but it really only shines if the content has discrete channels. The Denon receiver you picked out is a stereo receiver. You will not be running 3 channel audio, or any surround audio, from that receiver. It's just two channel. So at the end of the day, you won't be using the center channel with this and cannot wire it in.

2) Without the coupling to the 4 posts, they are separate I think, and require bi-amping. This is way not worth it. I would just set these speakers aside, or find the plates that connect the posts so you do not have to bi-amp. I hate even saying bi-amp because it spawns questions about it and it really just isn't worth getting into at all.

3) Those posts allow banana plugs to insert. Banana plugs are terminations on the end of the wire that you can install for easy fitting and they hold with compression friction.

4) Eh, hopefully someone else can help you find a "good" cassette player. Personally I would just say go hit up all the second hand stores for a vintage stereo with a cassette player in it if that's what you need. I wouldn't look for a modern one (if they're even available).

5) Impedance is just resistance, there's no sonic property to it. It's just a way of matching a load to an amplifier. Nothing more. And it entirely depends on the amplifier's design. Don't worry about this. Just match the amplifier's rated load capabilities appropriately, so if the amplifier/receiver says it can handle 4ohm to 8ohm loads, then that's the load you seek out (ie, don't put 2ohm loads on there). I would leave it at that.

Ultimately I suggest you scrap all this, and instead, propose a budget total (all in max) and what you want completely as an end user experience and let's help you build a proper system that can grow instead of just trying to make some free stuff (that is likely just junk at this point, if it even works still) by spending a high budget on random components. We will happily help you build a great system.

Very best,

 

[Pogre]

No bridging! That won't lead to anything good. You need a multichannel amp if you want to run 3 speakers. What is your gaming rig?

You need the jumpers for all of those speakers, which connect the top and bottom binding posts. 2 short pieces of speaker wire will work just fine for that if you don't have the original jumper plates.

I agree with Mal tho. You might be better off rethinking your plan. I'm not familiar with those speakers but retooling and rethinking your budget might offer you a better experience. What do you have to work with for a total budget?

 

[Eppie]

No bridging! That won't lead to anything good. You need a multichannel amp if you want to run 3 speakers. What is your gaming rig?

You need the jumpers for all of those speakers, which connect the top and bottom binding posts. 2 short pieces of speaker wire will work just fine for that if you don't have the original jumper plates.

I agree with Mal tho. You might be better off rethinking your plan. I'm not familiar with those speakers but retooling and rethinking your budget might offer you a better experience. What do you have to work with for a total budget?

Agreed, you can easily make your own jumpers to connect the upper and lower terminals on the speakers. For 2 channel audio, disregard the centre.

He has $1k British Pounds in gear listed which is about $1400 USD.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why would a noob want cassettes? Or vinyl? You have existing collections of each to play?

 

[Eppie]

It was nice of your friend to give you speakers, but the 702e on Hifishark are selling for only £60 to £80, which gives you an idea of their value. With a £1000 budget the speakers will be the weakest link in the chain, and just about anyone here will tell you that speaker choice is the most important thing. I would sell them and add the money to your budget and start fresh. You might get £100 for all 3 if in good condition.

The Denon DRA800H looks to be pretty decent. 100W per channel which is a good place to start unless you want concert level music. Whether that is enough power depends upon the efficiency rating of the speakers (the higher efficiency the less amplifier power you need). That model has a subwoofer pre-out which is also good as it allows you to add a powered subwoofer later if you want good deep bass.

That's a lot of money for a CD transport. Are you set on buying new? You could save money looking at the used market and put more towards the speakers. The Denon DCD600NE is CD only. No SuperAudioCD or DVD audio support so no ability to play multi-channel audio in the future if you ever decide to go with surround set. It's a nice unit that matches the amp, but perhaps not the best bang for the dollar.

Denon makes nice turntables. I'm not familiar with that model, but it's fully automatic, belt drive and a nice table to start with. Since you're in Eurpope, consider Project as well. Hopefully it comes with a good cartridge. Project turntables at that level come with the Ortofon 2M red which is nice.

For cassettes you'll likely have to look at the used market. We have a thread in the forums "Are these finds good deals?" where people can get opinions on used finds. Not sure what will be available in the UK. For cassettes it will be hit and miss.

Having given all that consideration, are you ok with selling the Missions and if so what budget is left for speakers? Maybe forgo the cassette and/or turntable for now and get really nice speakers and add components later. Speakers tend to be a long term investment (except for some of the members here ) so take your time choosing them.

 

[Pogre]

It was nice of your friend to give you speakers, but the 702e on Hifishark are selling for only £60 to £80, which gives you an idea of their value. With a £1000 budget the speakers will be the weakest link in the chain, and just about anyone here will tell you that speaker choice is the most important thing. I would sell them and add the money to your budget and start fresh. You might get £100 for all 3 if in good condition.

The Denon DRA800H looks to be pretty decent. 100W per channel which is a good place to start unless you want concert level music. Whether that is enough power depends upon the efficiency rating of the speakers (the higher efficiency the less amplifier power you need). That model has a subwoofer pre-out which is also good as it allows you to add a powered subwoofer later if you want good deep bass.

That's a lot of money for a CD transport. Are you set on buying new? You could save money looking at the used market and put more towards the speakers. The Denon DCD600NE is CD only. No SuperAudioCD or DVD audio support so no ability to play multi-channel audio in the future if you ever decide to go with surround set. It's a nice unit that matches the amp, but perhaps not the best bang for the dollar.

Denon makes nice turntables. I'm not familiar with that model, but it's fully automatic, belt drive and a nice table to start with. Since you're in Eurpope, consider Project as well. Hopefully it comes with a good cartridge. Project turntables at that level come with the Ortofon 2M red which is nice.

For cassettes you'll likely have to look at the used market. We have a thread in the forums "Are these finds good deals?" where people can get opinions on used finds. Not sure what will be available in the UK. For cassettes it will be hit and miss.

Having given all that consideration, are you ok with selling the Missions and if so what budget is left for speakers? Maybe forgo the cassette and/or turntable for now and get really nice speakers and add components later. Speakers tend to be a long term investment (except for some of the members here ) so take your time choosing them.

Very well put Eppie, I agree!

Joker I think I'd look at those gifted speakers as lighting a fire under you to put a nice system together. You have enough of a stated budget for a great start to a system from scratch with much better speakers, and speakers are easily the most important piece of the puzzle for great sound. Like I said earlier, I think retooling that budget a little bit with more going to speakers and a little less focus on electronics we might be able to help you put something nice together.

Oh, and you won't need a center channel for 2 channel music either. That's really meant more for multichannel stuff like 5.1 movies, shows or music (some music is specifically mixed in 5.1 in different formats, most music is in stereo).

 

[lovinthehd]

Am not familiar with the speakers but agree this is what you should concentrate on. I'd simply start off with digital unless you have existing collections of vinyl or cassettes (especially cassettes, just no reason to bring those back let alone use them IMO but @3db would disagree ).....or is there something particular you expect the analog stuff to provide?

 

[Pogre]

Speakers tend to be a long term investment (except for some of the members here ) so take your time choosing them.

SOME people! Amirite?

 

[Pogre]

Am not familiar with the speakers but agree this is what you should concentrate on. I'd simply start off with digital unless you have existing collections of vinyl or cassettes (especially cassettes, just no reason to bring those back let alone use them IMO but @3db would disagree ).....or is there something particular you expect the analog stuff to provide?

Yeah, I agree with this too. I can not imagine any good reason to start a cassette collection for sure, let alone vinyl. If you already have a large collection that's one thing, but starting from scratch I'd go digital for sure. That's one example of where some retooling of the budget can come in.

 

[Eppie]

One exception is the indie scene. There are indie bands that still release material on cassette and some bands have special releases on vinyl. Like Tool. Japan also likes to produce high quality vinyl. The OP might have inherited a collection as well. Starting from scratch though it makes sense to stream from the gaming rig (assuming it's PC) and then add components if he wants to expand into other formats. CDs can be ripped to flac on the PC so no real need for the CD transport unless he doesn't want to stream music and play games on the PC at the same time. Streaming music shouldn't impact fps during gaming much though.

 

[Pogre]

There are indie bands that still release material on cassette and some bands have special releases on vinyl. Like Tool.

That just keeps coming up in threads I post in!

You guys are tryna get me vinylized! I know it!

 

[Eppie]

That just keeps coming up in threads I post in!

You guys are tryna get me vinylized! I know it!

From your photos I think the only spot you have for a TT would be on top of one of the Hsu subs, and that just wouldn't bode well.

 

[3db]

Shoving loveinthehd and pogre into the corner. Please ignore those two old farts. Lets talk about your plans..

You were given a Left, Right, and Center channel speaker but you want to go the stereo route. This implies that you have no use for the center channel so store it or sell it. Look for an integrated amp but they will be relatively expensive compared to a used mid level to high level AVR from Yamaha, Denon, and Marantz which will have no problems driving those Mission speakers. Yes the other channels not being used burn electricity but not much since they are idle.

Do you own any cassettes? If no, the two old farts erm esteemed colleagues are correct. Why go into cassettes? Vinyl I can understand but cassettes not so much. I have a very good reason for going the cassette deck route. I have vinyl that cannot be found digitally yet. I have 3 systems, one on each floor and the cassettes give me access to the vinyl that I could only play on my main system in the basement. I already have a very decent table and I did not want to add another turntable with USB just so I can digitize my records. If there were CDs, they were prohibitively expensive. I checked!!! Plus I grew up with cassettes and still had some that I wanted to play. If you have cassettes, you would be better served looking into EBAY or other used market and buy a maintained deck then going with the new crap that is being produced. The new stuff is JUNK.

Loveninthehd.. I only disgree with your assertion that cassettes never sounded good. I cant tell you how many guests I had that were fooled into thinking they were listening to a CD when the tape finished and I had to eject it and flip it. There jaws just dropped. Those were the recordings I made on the Yamaha using dbx. Keep in mind I'm using dbx, not Dolby noise reduction and there's such a big difference.

The world's digital music library is still very much incomplete and there are albums out there that have yet to be brought into the digital world. Thats one reason for going into vinyl. The other is the involvement. Some people like the ritual, others dont. I do and dont depending on the mood I'm in.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey I didn't say they "never" sounded good (at least not in this thread ). I had cassettes way back when, and while they had some issues, especially when used among a wide variety of players, they were great for making mix tapes from vinyl or for something to listen to in my Walkman or in the car . I never cared for pre-recorded cassettes at all, those did have some sq issues altho were fine in the car IME....and in any case have no desire to dig thru vinyl any more to find something that isn't available on digital, as that's just generally not an issue for me. I'd just rather avoid the degradation of tape/tape machines over time, somewhat same for vinyl, just prefer that pristine digital experience over tape hiss, wow & flutter, etc. With the millions of digital files available, I have no real chance of listening to all of that format let alone previous formats either.