Amps for Passive Subs: Avoid Class D? Huh?

[ryanosaur]

I am going neck deep into some Subwoofer builds and have been planning to go Class D across the board with my system, including these new Passive Sub designs. There are many issues when looking through the world of amplifiers to manage larger woofers properly, including when you start looking at the bigger Pro Drivers that can handle 1700w like a snack and may peak at 3400W... or consider the Eminince NSW6021-6 which is rated at RMS/Max 2500/5000w!
Likewise, one can search the SQL-15s that I just purchased and find a YT Vid of them torture testing a pair to the tune of over 12000w per driver!!!
Yes, some of this is superfluous to the topic at hand, but not unnecessary background.
Many would just say get some Behringers: they are inexpensive and widely available. They also fail to perform at spec, and the 6000s do not support being driven hard as reported by many I've talked too. Then come the Crown XLS DriveCore Series 2 which are more expensive and seem to do the job. The 2502, Bridged will deliver 2400w at 4-ohms.
Beyond this... where do you go?

Well, I did a simple google search earlier and stumbled on this gem:

BishopSound | British PA Speakers & Pro Audio

The home of immersive British sound for audio professionals. PA Speakers, Woofers, Compression Drivers, and Power Amplifiers.

bishopsound.com

Huh?
*scratches head quizzically

A lot of Subs are using Class D Amps today. If it wasn't efficacious, it wouldn't be the case. Of course there is not much in the way of support for the claim they make. but still...

To All: Any thoughts?

 

[ryanosaur]

Oh yes... and while we are at it:
Please make recommendations for good Passive Sub Amps that can clear 2000w and NOT blow up! (i.e. No Sinbosen. )

 

[lovinthehd]

What's the question? Who is bishopsound and why do they matter? Don't know the mechanics/differences the class would make to driving subs but I'm sticking to class D for my subs in any case. If you want a badass sub amp maybe something from SpeakerPower or Powersoft like Josh R uses?

 

[ryanosaur]

What's the question? Who is bishopsound and why do they matter?

In reality... they don't. It was more about the conversation and if there may be a reason why someone could legitimately make that claim.

 

[lovinthehd]

In reality... they don't. It was more about the conversation and if there may be a reason why someone could legitimately make that claim.

Yeah I'm interested too....but does remind me of something Crown mentioned when making queries about the sub 20hz performance of the XLS, where they said "An amp without any form of DSP in it, the XLi and CTs. Still with both of these amps at some point below 20Hz you will trigger the DC/LF circuit. That is typically below 10Hz for that to be triggered. "

 

[Jerkface]

Many would just say get some Behringers: they are inexpensive and widely available.

They're inexpensive because they're poorly made Chinese garbage, and they're widely available because they're inexpensive. Behringer is the Wal-Mart of audio gear.

 

[Steve81]

if there may be a reason why someone could legitimately make that claim.

No.

 

[ryanosaur]

Re: Berrie, one company that distributed for them until recent changes early this year put forth that they do make a great starter amp. While the person was blatantly honest about the spec'd performance coming up short, he said the company never saw the failure rate that most attribute to them.
FWIW, I was very strongly warned away from the 6000 series, both NX and NU. For the 3000, it was just a warning on the spec.

 

[Jerkface]

Re: Berrie, one company that distributed for them until recent changes early this year put forth that they do make a great starter amp. While the person was blatantly honest about the spec'd performance coming up short, he said the company never saw the failure rate that most attribute to them.
FWIW, I was very strongly warned away from the 6000 series, both NX and NU. For the 3000, it was just a warning on the spec.

One local music shop in Virginia (where I used to live) quit selling B*er entirely because of the sheer volume of warranty work that came back. It wasn't worth tying up their tech team for weeks at a time even though they got reimbursed for the labor if it was inside of 90 days from sale date. It was even less worth it when they basically had to eat labor costs inside of 1 year because the customers were ballistic that the gear fell apart that fast.

Amps and DSPs were the biggest problem areas.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah never felt comfy buying Behringer, the inflated specs and seemingly fairly high numbers of issues (let alone fan noise)....price was good, tho and many have successfully used them for long periods of time, too.

 

[Jerkface]

Yeah never felt comfy buying Behringer, the inflated specs and seemingly fairly high numbers of issues (let alone fan noise)....price was good, tho and many have successfully used them for long periods of time, too.

I'd take my chances on something like Pyle if I were that hard up in the budget.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd take my chances on something like Pyle if I were that hard up in the budget.

I'd still put Behringer ahead of Pyle....I'd have to be desperate to ever buy anything Pyle....

 

[Jerkface]

I'd still put Behringer ahead of Pyle....I'd have to be desperate to ever buy anything Pyle....

They may be cheap, but they don't have the failure rate of B*er

 

[lovinthehd]

They may be cheap, but they don't have the failure rate of B*er

Source? You poll all the auto parts stores in the country or something?

 

[Jerkface]

Source? You poll all the auto parts stores in the country or something?

Car audio is a completely different division than their DJ gear.

 

[MalVeauX]

To All: Any thoughts?

Well, I would pose the question... how does one possibly amplify a sub with a 1kw or 2kw range for peaks with class A or even AB? Think about the inefficiency, heat, cost, etc. Class D simply makes the most sense for this kind of power requirement for a big powerful sub in a big room. There's nothing inherently wrong with class D circuits.

If you need a cheap amplifier for a sub, Crown isn't glamorous but they do make pretty solid gear and you can get a pretty high output series amp from them for a good price. You won't hear it's operation over your sub.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

Car audio is a completely different division than their DJ gear.

I really don't know much about their dj gear, but if what I saw in the auto parts stores and some stuff online, I'd still take Behringer stuff first. I don't think Ryan is interested in either, tho....so moving on....

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I would pose the question... how does one possibly amplify a sub with a 1kw or 2kw range for peaks with class A or even AB? Think about the inefficiency, heat, cost, etc. Class D simply makes the most sense for this kind of power requirement for a big powerful sub in a big room. There's nothing inherently wrong with class D circuits.

If you need a cheap amplifier for a sub, Crown isn't glamorous but they do make pretty solid gear and you can get a pretty high output series amp from them for a good price. You won't hear it's operation over your sub.

Very best,

Actually I think there are some fan-noisy Crown series....the XLS is not noisy at all, tho (never hear the four in my living room or the one in my bedroom). And some of the Crowns can get pretty pricey, too.

 

[Jerkface]

Well, I would pose the question... how does one possibly amplify a sub with a 1kw or 2kw range for peaks with class A or even AB? Think about the inefficiency, heat, cost, etc. Class D simply makes the most sense for this kind of power requirement for a big powerful sub in a big room. There's nothing inherently wrong with class D circuits.

If you need a cheap amplifier for a sub, Crown isn't glamorous but they do make pretty solid gear and you can get a pretty high output series amp from them for a good price. You won't hear it's operation over your sub.

Very best,

Crown is actually considered high-end in the PA market. I'd absolutely do a Crown class D to drive a speaker that is only tasked to push about 200Hz of frequency range and not need to be especially detailed, just not distorted.

 

[Verdinut]

Oh yes... and while we are at it:
Please make recommendations for good Passive Sub Amps that can clear 2000w and NOT blow up! (i.e. No Sinbosen. )

My recommendation is a QSC amp. You cannot blow any of them:

The RMX 2450a will output up to at least 2400W for a 4 ohm load when bridged, but with a 1% THD at 1 kHz, maybe more at 20 Hz..

https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/amp/discontinued/rmx/q_amp_rmx_series_specs.pdf

The DCA 2422 will also peak 2400W with a 4 ohm load with same distortion. should you want a cleaner 2000 watts, probably the DCA 3022 will peak to 3000W with same distortion, but you would have a rather clean 2000W with it. In any case, you would need a dedicated AC circuit because they will draw much current, as indicated with their spec sheet.

DCA Series - Non-Network - Cinema - Products & Solutions - QSC

www.qsc.com

As you already know, those amps use cooling fans. The RMX series fan would run at a fixed speed, whereas the ones on the DCA cinema series amps have a variable speed. If you don't wish to hear them, your listening distance should be more than 10 feet.

Should you be interested, it might be good to contact QSC for the appropriate recommendation. Cinemanext.com have good prices on the DCA line. Those cinema amps are only sold by cinema equipment suppliers.

By the way, QSC used to publish more detailed info for their specs. I have them for the DCA Series only and should you want to have them, I could send them to you as a pdf file. For example, they used to provide the conservative power ratings with low distortion figures which you don't have with the current online info.