Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[cpp]

I just wonder how many on this forum that talk about gun control, disbanding govts, military and Law enforcement are actually military veterans. Makes one wonder.

 

[TankTop5]

I work psych nursing for our military the unit is called mission resiliency. It's considered one of the top at what it does PTSD combat trauma substance abuse and other disorders that our military go through. We have military active and veterans

I've seen grown men come out crying from combat trauma group what they call the War Room. I've also seen those same men some of the toughest I'll ever know just love spending hours in art therapy.

I've had the most heart breaking conversations with so many of them about what they went through and what it's done to them. Well they talked I listened.

You hear what they've gone through and it makes you get over that macho attitude about guns and hurting people real friggin quick. Real quick

To all of you on here that have served I have no words to express my gratitude for you. Man just no words

Does Victor Marx ever visit your facility, he does a lot of work with the military dealing with trauma?

 

[sterling shoote]

Read "More Guns Less Crime", a study by Dr. John Lott. His study indicates violence carried out with guns is most prevalent in cities which have the strictest gun control; and, areas which permit concealed carry have the least violence carried out with firearms. So, what to do? What to do is buy a handgun, get training, and a concealed carry permit. You will help yourself and others, simply because there are not enough Police to protect you. The bottom-line is a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. Don't be defenseless and don't expect any new gun control measures to protect you. You will become a statistic.

 

[Danzilla31]

Does Victor Marx ever visit your facility, he does a lot of work with the military dealing with trauma?

No at least not to my knowledge I handle the nursing side not therapy. I'll have to tell my boss though. We do have doctors and former veterans come through to meet and do workshops for our patients. My clinical director is always looking for more people and tools she can add to the program. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Danzilla31]

Read More Guns Less Crime, a study by Dr. John Lott. His study indicates violence carried out with guns is most prevalent in cities which have the strictest gun control and areas which permit concealed carry have the least violence carried out with firearms. So, what to do? What to do is buy a handgun, get training, and a concealed carry permit. You will help yourself and others, simply because there are not enough Police to protect you. The bottom-line is a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. Don't be defenseless and don't expect any new gun control measures to protect you. You will become a statistic.

Yeah lately I must admit I'm glad I live in a state that allows them. When I started owning guns I joined this channel active self protection on YouTube. Really good channel not only teaches you how to use a firearm but also deescalation avoidance the right attitude you should have as a gun owner they show you videos of real life encounters and go over what went wrong what went right. Watching people get home invaded and attacked and just how helpful just having the gun for the victim was not even having to always use it was super eye opening man

 

[Teetertotter?]

I just wonder how many on this forum that talk about gun control, disbanding govts, military and Law enforcement are actually military veterans. Makes one wonder.

I am a Veteran and we do need some sort of background checks before selling any type firearms to any one. Maybe too, we need mental hospitals/institutions that were disbanded in the 70's, in our area. To many mental people like the Republican Congress, and their civilian militia they back.

I'm also for NOT protecting those police that are corrupt, misconduct becoming an officer, and racist. Put them in JAIL. Ban them from ever doing any type of police work.

I also, am a NRA registered competition rifle target shooter. I don't believe in AK's and the like, plus owner ship of machine guns to the general public. We need to address mental health, parenting, drugs, and families teaching values.

 

[TankTop5]

No at least not to my knowledge I handle the nursing side not therapy. I'll have to tell my boss though. We do have doctors and former veterans come through to meet and do workshops for our patients. My clinical director is always looking for more people and tools she can add to the program. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Trell]

I just wonder how many on this forum that talk about gun control, disbanding govts, military and Law enforcement are actually military veterans. Makes one wonder.

Military service in Norway, like most men in my age group. Background checks and weapons training/handling should be compulsory to own and use weapons.

 

[sterling shoote]

I am a Veteran and we do need some sort of background checks before selling any type firearms to any one. Maybe too, we need mental hospitals/institutions that were disbanded in the 70's, in our area. To many mental people like the Republican Congress, and their civilian militia they back.

I'm also for NOT protecting those police that are corrupt, misconduct becoming an officer, and racist. Put them in JAIL. Ban them from ever doing any type of police work.

I also, am a NRA registered competition rifle target shooter. I don't believe in AK's and the like, plus owner ship of machine guns to the general public. We need to address mental health, parenting, drugs, and families teaching values.

I'm guessing you shoot in NRA High Power Rifle Competition and/or NRA Long Range? What is your classification?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Read "More Guns Less Crime", a study by Dr. John Lott. His study indicates violence carried out with guns is most prevalent in cities which have the strictest gun control; and, areas which permit concealed carry have the least violence carried out with firearms. So, what to do? What to do is buy a handgun, get training, and a concealed carry permit. You will help yourself and others, simply because there are not enough Police to protect you. The bottom-line is a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. Don't be defenseless and don't expect any new gun control measures to protect you. You will become a statistic.

That study does not go unquestioned. More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia

Of course, bias goes both ways. But, I would question any studies conducted by someone with such a strong pre-existing bias. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I would look at counter-arguments before accepting that he's right.

 

[Teetertotter?]

I'm guessing you shoot in NRA High Power Rifle Competition and/or NRA Long Range? What is your classification?

I'm a Class A in SB Silhouette, both Std and Hunter. Shoot a CZ 452 .22LR, Leupold FX3 25X40, Norma Tac 22. 40, 60 77 and 100 meters. Our nearest HP Silhouette range is about a 45 minute drive, but I am not into that. I think they have held Nationals and is fun to observe and near Madison, WI. I might bet wrong. We have one shooter that comes down from Madison, WI., once a month to shoot our NRA SB matches. Last year he made AAA in both Hunter and Std. These young kids....lol I'm 77 and still at it, practice once a week and monthly matches. I used to be the Director for 8 years. www.beloitrifleclub.org. We have one 7 time Junior National Champion with 7 Grand Slams, up from Chicago area. He got married 4 years ago and his wife is fun to watch too. When she comes up with him, she is his spotter. We do have one SB Master in our regular group and goes to Nationals along with one of our other AAA shooters. Sorry for the High Jacking.............

 

[Danzilla31]

That study does not go unquestioned. More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia

Of course, bias goes both ways. But, I would question any studies conducted by someone with such a strong pre-existing bias. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I would look at counter-arguments before accepting that he's right.

Would it be safe to presume there might be some right and some wrong from both points of view? Better gun control but also access for citizens both might help some of the problem.

I can't help but wonder with the current climate of defunding police and really just a questionable approach on enforcing law and order in some parts of the country I wonder if you could even talk most citizens into giving up access or compromising means of accessing firearms right now.

 

[cpp]

I am a Veteran and we do need some sort of background checks before selling any type firearms to any one. Maybe too, we need mental hospitals/institutions that were disbanded in the 70's, in our area. To many mental people like the Republican Congress, and their civilian militia they back.

I'm also for NOT protecting those police that are corrupt, misconduct becoming an officer, and racist. Put them in JAIL. Ban them from ever doing any type of police work.

I also, am a NRA registered competition rifle target shooter. I don't believe in AK's and the like, plus owner ship of machine guns to the general public. We need to address mental health, parenting, drugs, and families teaching values.

Spent 16 years in the Navy mostly assigned at McDill AFB under the SOCOM. I cannot stand corrupt police. Don't have any AR's as I never had a need for them when I exited the service. But I really enjoy bird hunting and pistol shooting..

 

[Bernie Williams]

For me I would draw one line between AR's (have one) and bump stocks. If you recall bump stocks were approved ten years or so ago under the obama admin (not trying to lay blame, doubt he even new). I had never heard of a bump stock till after the vegas shooting. When I listened to the audio portion I was sure it was a machine gun, easily traceable. Looked up the ATF memo, sort of stunned me. I wonder how and if that memo was circulated to the admin and members of congress. Anyway the Trump admin tried to ban bump stocks and now my understanding is that the ban by the ATF has been ruled unconstitutional. Correct me if I am wrong. It will be hard to tamp down on people's ingenuity such as bump stocks, 3d printing, ghost guns etc. After all this is a cottage industry.
I am also ex-Navy, fighter pilot. Have no problem with AR's though I use my bolt actions a lot more.

 

[highfigh]

Military service in Norway, like most men in my age group. Background checks and weapons training/handling should be compulsory to own and use weapons.

We have background checks, but only for new purchases/first time buyers and it only applies to dealers- in theory, any purchases across state lines are required to be handled through someone with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) but I seriously doubt the majority of private sales include this. The background check weeds out some, but the larger problem is with people who aren't supposed to have guns in the first place and they just will not obey the laws.

Back to the scanner app this morning- a local Papa John's pizza place was held up at 7:30AM by someone with two handguns. He's an employee. Well, a former employee. How stupid does someone need to be in order to hold up the place where they had worked?

And, returning to unsafe storage- this weekend, a 3 year old found a gun and fatally shot himself.

Background checks wouldn't have prevented either of these.

 

[Mikado463]

a local Papa John's pizza place was held up at 7:30AM by someone with two handguns. He's an employee. Well, a former employee. How stupid does someone need to be in order to hold up the place where they had worked?

agreed, now lets see 'how stupid' the Wisconsin judicial system can be ...........

And, returning to unsafe storage- this weekend, a 3 year old found a gun and fatally shot himself.

again, lets see how the gun owner / parent of the child is prosecuted

Background checks wouldn't have prevented either of these

yep and again will your judicial system see to it that those individuals won't do it again ??

 

[highfigh]

agreed, now lets see 'how stupid' the Wisconsin judicial system can be ...........



again, lets see how the gun owner / parent of the child is prosecuted



yep and again will your judicial system see to it that those individuals won't do it again ??

Magic 8 Ball says "Extremely, as usual", "Doubtful" and "Not a chance".

 

[sterling shoote]

What we all want is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives; but, here in Louisville, KY, with 59 gun homicides so far this year, it appears the laws to keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers and drug traffickers is not working. In other words, straw purchase laws are not being prosecuted and thus this question, why not?

 

[panteragstk]

What we all want is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives; but, here in Louisville, KY, with 59 gun homicides so far this year, it appears the laws to keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers and drug traffickers is not working. In other words, straw purchase laws are not being prosecuted and thus this question, why not?

If laws are not enforced the effectively do not exist.

All in agreement about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. The hard part is for the people that don't have a record and can pass a background check, but are still criminals with the intent to do harm. That's where gun laws and restrictions don't do anything. That's also where the mental health aspect comes in.

How do we solve for the mental health aspect? No idea. Very complex subject.

 

[Trell]

If laws are not enforced the effectively do not exist.

All in agreement about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. The hard part is for the people that don't have a record and can pass a background check, but are still criminals with the intent to do harm. That's where gun laws and restrictions don't do anything. That's also where the mental health aspect comes in.

How do we solve for the mental health aspect? No idea. Very complex subject.

For me background checks (what should included is a thread for itself, I guess) is only one part for owning and using firearms. The other part is having a license to own and use firearms where one has to show firearms competence through tests and practice.

Today, even in USA, one has to pass a test to get a driver license. Why not for firearms as well?