Does it make sense to upgrade tweeters?

[D Murphy]

Too bad. It must have been difficult to survive as boutique speaker manufacturer over the past decade or so, but I always try to support artisans. I attached some photos of my pair. I love the look and the hardwood sides (mine have the cherry finish). I will keep working on equalization. I’ve had poor results with Audyssey so I will try Dirac.

EDIT: The tweeter is Scan-speak D2905/930000, mid is a Vifa M13SG-09, bass is a Peerless HDS 850594

Specifications
Frequency response: 42-20kHz ±3db, 100-10kHz ±1.5db
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms, minimum impedance 4 ohms, low reactance
Sensitivity: 87db 1 watt/1 meter
Bass-loading: Fourth order vented system
Recommended RMS Power: 50 to 250 watts per channel
Tweeter: Hand-damped silk 1” dome with aperiodic rear chamber, cast face plate and ferro-fluid Bass-mid: 5 1⁄4" cast-frame, rubber surround, double magnet, long-throw shielded
Woofer: 6 1/2" cast-frame, rubber surround, long throw, shielded
Cabinet: MDF Construction: 1” Front Panel, 3/4” Top, Bottom and Rear. Multiple density sides include 3/4” MDF with added 3/4” solid hardwood sides. Internally damped with 2” convoluted foam. Finishes: Hardwood sides available in clear lacquer on American oak or black oak. (Optional cherry, maple, walnut and rose walnut finishes also available).
Inputs: Gold plated binding posts
Dimensions: 23 1/4" tall, 9 1/2" wide, 15 1/2" deep
Weight: 53 lbs each

Nice. ACI products were always a mixed bag. They made their name with the Sapphire, which had a reputation for brightness because of the Focal tweeters, eventually replaced by Scans to a much better reeception. I ordered their tower (the "Opal") waaaaaay back in the day and found it dark and closed in. I redid the Xover and the schematics are still listed on my murphyblaster.com DIY site: http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=New_Vifa_Tower.html I had a similar bad experience with one of their center channels. I'm sure your speakers could be whipped into shape fairly easily, but I guess you would have to move to Bethesda. Quite nice this time of year.

 

[Swerd]

Too bad. It must have been difficult to survive as boutique speaker manufacturer over the past decade or so, but I always try to support artisans. I attached some photos of my pair. I love the look and the hardwood sides (mine have the cherry finish). I will keep working on equalization. I’ve had poor results with Audyssey so I will try Dirac.

Your photos are interesting because the ACI Panorama was one of the few 3-way stand mounted speakers. The woofer and tweeter were well known for their good sound qualities. The mid-range driver has that unfortunate dip between 1 and 2 kHz, but it is possible that the speaker designer managed to minimize it. Still, a dip in that frequency range is hard to hide.

Just so you know, the D Murphy you responded to is among the best boutique speaker designers around. From your post, I'm not sure if you realize this, or not. (Dennis Murphy is modest and won't try to sell his designs on a forum like AH. I'm only a long-term fan-boy with no financial connections – and much less modesty .)

And, he is presently selling an excellent 3-way stand mounted speaker, the Philharmonic Audio BMR Monitor. It's details are below. Note the dimensions of the cabinet are similar to you ACI speakers.

Cabinet	Mirror Walnut Veneer with Ruby Stain
Tweeter	RAAL 64-10 OEM
Midrange	Tectonic Balanced Mode Radiator 2.5"
Woofer	SB Acoustics 6" Ceramic
Frequency Response	36 Hz - 20kHz (± 2db) Anechoic
Sensitivity	86.5 dB (dB/2.83v/1M)
Box Alignment	Bass Reflex
Dimensions	20" H × 8" W × 12½" D
Weight	32 lbs each
Impedance	4 Ohms

I've heard this speaker. In brief, I love it. Better yet, so do reviewers. This speaker (or earlier versions with a similar woofer) received very high marks from two different reviewers.
James Larson of Audioholics:
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/bmr-philharmonitor-1
(He regularly posts here at AH, using the moniker shadyJ)

And Erin of Erin's Audio Corner:

Philharmonic BMR Bookshelf Speaker Review

Philharmonic BMR Bookshelf Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Jbrunwa]

Your photos are interesting because the ACI Panorama was one of the few 3-way stand mounted speakers. The woofer and tweeter were well known for their good sound qualities. The mid-range driver has that unfortunate dip between 1 and 2 kHz, but it is possible that the speaker designer managed to minimize it. Still, a dip in that frequency range is hard to hide.

Just so you know, the D Murphy you responded to is among the best boutique speaker designers around. From your post, I'm not sure if you realize this, or not. (Dennis Murphy is modest and won't try to sell his designs on a forum like AH. I'm only a long-term fan-boy with no financial connections – and much less modesty .)

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know. I'm returning to audio obsession after a long absence. My amp is a B&K Reference 200.5 and I'm working to replace my old B&K Reference 50s2 pre-pro. Much has changed about audio technology, It's really nice to hear advice from those with wonderful expertise.

I'm currently tinkering with an Emotiva XMC-2 (another boutique I guess with a lot of mixed reviews) and Dirac, having pretty much failed at every attempt to approach a decent sound with Denon AVR-X3700H and Audyssey, despite the Denon being a very high quality although mass produced AVR. I'm getting much better results at least initially with Dirac, but I have to think that speakers requiring less equalization would give me a much cleaner overall result. I will read up on the links and D Murphy's products. Thanks so much for bringing them to my attention!

 

[Jbrunwa]

BTW, here is what REW shows I get with a Dirac Live generated filter and with loudness enabled for some additional salt and pepper at a modest listening level. At least Dirac has eliminated the forced character I was previously hearing in the mid/highs with Audyssey MultiEQ. Maybe giving an idea for my sound preference for rising slope to compensate for my aging hearing.

 

[Pogre]

BTW, here is what REW shows I get with a Dirac Live generated filter and with loudness enabled for some additional salt and pepper at a modest listening level. At least Dirac has eliminated the forced character I was previously hearing in the mid/highs with Audyssey MultiEQ. Maybe giving an idea for my sound preference for rising slope to compensate for my aging hearing.

You should adjust the dB scale between 45 and 100, in 5 dB increments. You get much better resolution. That big scale has a way of hiding things.

 

[Jbrunwa]

You should adjust the dB scale between 45 and 100, in 5 dB increments. You get much better resolution. That big scale has a way of hiding things.

Thanks for the feedback. Here it is with more detail. There are a couple room nulls below 100 that there is nothing to be done about within my speaker and listening location limits. The rising slope from mid to high is what I targeted.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the feedback. Here it is with more detail. There are a couple room nulls below 100 that there is nothing to be done about within my speaker and listening location limits. The rising slope from mid to high is what I targeted.

Have you tried experimenting with the Audyssey Editor app's ability to modify the eq?

 

[Swerd]

I'm currently tinkering with an Emotiva XMC-2 (another boutique I guess with a lot of mixed reviews) and Dirac, having pretty much failed at every attempt to approach a decent sound with Denon AVR-X3700H and Audyssey, despite the Denon being a very high quality although mass produced AVR. I'm getting much better results at least initially with Dirac, but I have to think that speakers requiring less equalization would give me a much cleaner overall result. I will read up on the links and D Murphy's products. Thanks so much for bringing them to my attention!

Some of Dennis Murphy's designs are sold directly through the internet from his small company Philharmonic Audio, some are available as DIY kits (un-assembled Baltic birch plywood cabinets are sold here), and many other of his designs are made by Salk Signature Sound and sold internet direct. My own speakers are designed by Dennis but made and sold by Salk.

Remember that the frequency response traces you get from Dirac or Audyssey show the frequency response combined with your room's response. That isn't the same as the frequency response of your speakers alone.

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know. I'm returning to audio obsession after a long absence. My amp is a B&K Reference 200.5 and I'm working to replace my old B&K Reference 50s2 pre-pro. Much has changed about audio technology, It's really nice to hear advice from those with wonderful expertise.

Those B&K products were very good. As you probably know that company is out of business. I still use an older 2-channel B&K amp combined with a recently bought Denon AVR-X4500H receiver. The 2-channel amp drives my front left & right speakers with the AVR as a pre-amp, while the AVR drives the center and rear channels. The Denon replaced an older B&K 507 AVR. The B&K receiver was good but it's software controls went bad, I couldn't operate it anymore.

 

[Jbrunwa]

Have you tried experimenting with the Audyssey Editor app's ability to modify the eq?

Yeah, thanks. For some reason I’m getting better results with Dirac. When I get the Audyssey curve to look similar, the result always sounds a little off and forced to my ears. I plan to test some more using REW before and after for each to try to objectively identify the difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, thanks. For some reason I’m getting better results with Dirac. When I get the Audyssey curve to look similar, the result always sounds a little off and forced to my ears. I plan to test some more using REW before and after for each to try to objectively identify the difference.

Not just Audyssey in the avr, you have the app installed separately on your phone/pad and use it to adjust cutoff points for eq as well as shaping the curve? Another app called Ratbuddysey can help with more manipulation of the curve, too.....

 

[Jbrunwa]

Some of Dennis Murphy's designs are sold directly through the internet from his small company Philharmonic Audio, some are available as DIY kits (un-assembled Baltic birch plywood cabinets are sold here), and many other of his designs are made by Salk Signature Sound and sold internet direct. My own speakers are designed by Dennis but made and sold by Salk.

Remember that the frequency response traces you get from Dirac or Audyssey show the frequency response combined with your room's response. That isn't the same as the frequency response of your speakers alone.
Those B&K products were very good. As you probably know that company is out of business. I still use an older 2-channel B&K amp combined with a recently bought Denon AVR-X4500H receiver. The 2-channel amp drives my front left & right speakers with the AVR as a pre-amp, while the AVR drives the center and rear channels. The Denon replaced an older B&K 507 AVR. The B&K receiver was good but it's software controls went bad, I couldn't operate it anymore.

They actually revived the company but are just selling amps http://www.bandkav.com/

 

[Kingnoob]

I don’t think the speakers is the issue, you could try other brands but 3way bookshelves are rare , that one you have looks high end !!!
Placement or room acoustics?? Issue maybe-equalizer could help ?

 

[Jbrunwa]

Not just Audyssey in the avr, you have the app installed separately on your phone/pad and use it to adjust cutoff points for eq as well as shaping the curve? Another app called Ratbuddysey can help with more manipulation of the curve, too.....

Yes, I have used the Multi EQ app and created a couple dozen different variations. Reducing the cutoff frequency for equalization doesn't help because I look to boost the high frequencies. Shaping the curve with control points is aggravatingly difficult. I also did a lot of experimenting with speaker and listening placement. For some reason, Dirac just seems to read the room better or produce better results than Audyssey. I don't want to get into Ratbuddysey or editing curves by hand.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I have used the Multi EQ app and created a couple dozen different variations. Reducing the cutoff frequency for equalization doesn't help because I look to boost the high frequencies. Shaping the curve with control points is aggravatingly difficult. I also did a lot of experimenting with speaker and listening placement. For some reason, Dirac just seems to read the room better or produce better results than Audyssey. I don't want to get into Ratbuddysey or editing curves by hand.

Thanks for the clarification. Altho, that's where that Radbudyssey app can be useful, and apparently fairly easily, for making more detailed adjustments.....OTOH if you're already invested in the Dirac, that definitely gets great reports. I'd love to experience a full Trinnov setup, too.