External Amp advice.

[Musicman61]

Something that occurs to me is that those FX style speakers are usually Bi-Poles and thus create a dispersed soundfield which can be muffled sounding.
If you are comparing your SQ from MonoPole Speakers to Bi-Pole and Di-Pole designs, they will inherently sound different.
We usually recommend using those type of Speakers only if being positioned nearfield to your LP (for example if your seating is close to the back wall and you have rear speakers about 1-2' from your head).

Another question is how loud do you listen? Unnless you are cranking your system to it's limits, you are likely not using much more than 16-32 Watts per channel at any given time.

I've had these same speakers before hooking up the amp and surround modes were fine. Since the amp surround sounds crappy. 2 channel stuff sounds fine

 

[Musicman61]

I think you are confused how this works. It doesn't matter what setting you use on the Yamaha, you're still using the Emotiva unless you're physically disconnecting your speakers from it and just using the onboard amps in your receiver.

I think you're talking about what Marantz calls "pure direct", which bypasses all dsp and sound processing. In which case you either prefer some dsp or you don't, and that's the difference you're hearing.

No its not direct mode. I'm familiar with all that. There is a setting on the yamaha which bypasses the amp so you can use the yamaha as if there isn't anything hooked up to it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Believe me it does make a difference. I've been a sound freak for many years as well as being a musician my self for 40 years self taught by ear before taking classical guitar lessons so I have a pretty good ear when it come to sound. I have to say that in all my years of going through many recievers and amps like using mono block tube amps back in the day I've never hear such a night and day difference between the yamaha and the emotiva. I thought changing speakers made the biggest difference but obviously that's not the case. When switching to using the emotiva it gives my speakers a whole new dimension. The sound stage is bigger and clearer. The dynamics over all and punchyness is much better. After hearing the difference I wanted to put the yamaha up for sale and get something of better quality. I've had a few friends over and they could easily hear the difference as well.

I believe you may be hearing a difference, it's why that we probably differ on. Your amps shouldn't sound so different from one another, altho it could be the sound mode rather than the amp. Sounds like you're using the Emotiva amp even at all times. Maybe the levels are off and why the speakers connected to the external amp sound better....

 

[lovinthehd]

No its not direct mode. I'm familiar with all that. There is a setting on the yamaha which bypasses the amp so you can use the yamaha as if there isn't anything hooked up to it.

How can this be if your main speakers are connected to the external amp only?

 

[Musicman61]

Well, let's start from scratch. So five mains and two heights? That would be 5.2.2. But, to which channels/configuration did you assign the height speakers?

The heights are connected to the heights output terminals on the yamaha

 

[Musicman61]

How can this be if your main speakers are connected to the external amp only?

Good question but it works.

 

[Pogre]

How can this be if your main speakers are connected to the external amp only?

I think it's like the Denon version of preamp mode? Disconnects the preouts from the onboard amp section?

Either way you're still using the Emotiva in both modes.

 

[lovinthehd]

Good question but it works.

Or you don't understand how that works. You're using the Emotiva on your mains. Period. No way for the Yamaha amps to be used at same time.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think it's like the Denon version of preamp mode? Disconnects the preouts from the onboard amp section?

Either way you're still using the Emotiva in both modes.

He's got a power amp, not an integrated with the ht bypass thing.

 

[Musicman61]

Well all I can do is to see what happens when I send my amp out to emotiva to add more modules for the surround channels. I still have a feeling that it will solve the issue. Then I won't be using the yamaha as nothing but a hub. Well post back with the results which will likely be a month from now to to those things called bills.

 

[Pogre]

I think what we have here is a lack of understanding combined with a healthy dose of expectation bias that's confused by switching between stereo and multichannel modes

 

[lovinthehd]

Well all I can do is to see what happens when I send my amp out to emotiva to add more modules for the surround channels. I still have a feeling that it will solve the issue. Then I won't be using the yamaha as nothing but a hub. Well post back with the results which will likely be a month from now to to those things called bills.

Good luck with that. You'd be using the avr as just a pre-pro (pre-amp/processor) (well except for any channels you keep powered by the avr).

 

[Pogre]

He's got a power amp, not an integrated with the ht bypass thing.

Right, a power amp using his Yamaha 2080 as the prepro. Does the 2080 have an amp disconnect feature like Denon/Marantz does by reassigning outputs?

 

[lovinthehd]

Right, a power amp using his Yamaha 2080 as the prepro. Does the 2080 have an amp disconnect feature like Denon does by reassigning outputs?

Amp disconnect feature to somehow use the Yamaha amps when the speakers are connected to the Emotiva? Eh? By amp disconnect you mean the ability of some of the Denons (like my 4520) to be used strictly in pre-amp mode and shutting down the amp section for certain or all channels for better spec?

 

[Pogre]

Well all I can do is to see what happens when I send my amp out to emotiva to add more modules for the surround channels. I still have a feeling that it will solve the issue. Then I won't be using the yamaha as nothing but a hub. Well post back with the results which will likely be a month from now to to those things called bills.

Ahh... I see now. You're looking for confirmation that you should add more amp channels! Now it all makes sense.

Yup, you probably will notice an improvement. It likely won't be audible at all, but expectation bias will color perception enough to make up for it.

 

[Musicman61]

Or you don't understand how that works. You're using the Emotiva on your mains. Period. No way for the Yamaha amps to be used at same time.

Lol, let's just call this a wash for now. I understand perfectly. I know the emotiva is being used just for the mains. Bit of a communication breakdown here. I'm not new to audio but this poop has me baffled. Like I said earlier its hard to convey what I'm hearing on paper so to speak. Only way to really get what I mean is to post a video or something but I'm not doing that so I'll just get to the bottom of whats going on here my self. Sooner or later I always do. I just figured I'd try to shoot for sooner.

 

[Pogre]

Amp disconnect feature to somehow use the Yamaha amps when the speakers are connected to the Emotiva? Eh? By amp disconnect you mean the ability of some of the Denons (like my 4520) to be used strictly in pre-amp mode and shutting down the amp section for certain or all channels for better spec?

Yeah, preamp mode is what I *think* he's talking about. And no, he's still not using the Yamaha amps doing that, but I think he's confused as to how it works.

 

[Pogre]

Lol, let's just call this a wash for now. I understand perfectly. I know the emotiva is being used just for the mains. Bit of a communication breakdown here. I'm not new to audio but this poop has me baffled. Like I said earlier its hard to convey what I'm hearing on paper so to speak. Only way to really get what I mean is to post a video or something but I'm not doing that so I'll just get to the bottom of whats going on here my self. Sooner or later I always do. I just figured I'd try to shoot for sooner.

Have you done a direct comparison between the 2 amps with the same speakers in the same spot or are you saying your surround speakers don't sound as good as your mains?

 

[Musicman61]

Ahh... I see now. You're looking for confirmation that you should add more amp channels! Now it all makes sense.

Yup, you probably will notice an improvement. It likely won't be audible at all, but expectation bias will color perception enough to make up for it.

Yes the placebo effect right. Lol. Nah not at all. I've had some friends come over and all 3 of them heard the sound difference.

 

[ryanosaur]

There is absolutely a communication breakdown but more than anything, I think your FX speaker is jumbling the scene and you aren't hearing what you expect to hear from it.