Ampilifier frustration

[Legitgoose]

Hey all, I have a frustrating dilemma with my pioneer vsx- lx303 surround sound receiver, I purchased a year and a half ago and haven't used because it doesnt like my energy cf-30 front tower, and center channel speakers. The receiver shuts of during setup when testing these speakers, but works if I replace one with one of the energy satellite speakers that I have for surrounds. I contacted pioneer, and they told me it's because the the speakers are rated at a peak power higher than the receivers amp can produce. This does make sense, but then again doesn't because the speakers are recommended from 20 to 200 watts, and the receiver is producing 100 Watts @ 8 ohms. My old Denon 5.1, 70 watt per channel receiver powered them beautifully with no problems. I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to have to get a external amp to power the 3 front speakers, but am having trouble finding one. The only 3 channel amp I can find is the emotiva xp9- 3gen, which is a little too much power, and a little more than I want to spend. Which leads me to my first question. Does the external amp for the front speakers have to be the exact same wattage per channel as the receivers? And any recommendations for a external amp? Or do I have any other options?

 

[Pogre]

Something is not right. You shouldn't need a separate amp to prevent shutdown during setup with those speakers. Have you checked all of your speaker cables and looked for bare spots? How about loose strands at the binding posts? Peak power handling shouldn't have anything to do with it. Whoever told you that does not know what they're talking about.

 

[Leemix]

+1 to what @Pogre wrote.

That Pioneer rep doesnt know what hes talking about or there was a huge miscommunication.

 

[lovinthehd]

One reason I don't phone many companies, the customer service reps tend not to know much. This one is especially bad.....that is total nonsense about the wattage rating of a speaker (it's not much in the way of a useful spec, but....). I'd say there's something wrong with your speaker, or their connections, or the avr. In any case your avr doesn't have pre-outs for an external amp, either (it only has sub pre-outs). If you did have pre-outs for an amp, you could hook up any amp you wish, and generally if you do get an external amp you want to make it a significant difference (a doubling of power will only net you an additional 3dB spl for example). You might keep experimenting with speakers, moving them to different positions, etc....

 

[Pogre]

One reason I don't phone many companies, the customer service reps tend not to know much. This one is especially bad.....that is total nonsense about the wattage rating of a speaker (it's not much in the way of a useful spec, but....). I'd say there's something wrong with your speaker, or their connections, or the avr. In any case your avr doesn't have pre-outs for an external amp, either (it only has sub pre-outs). If you did have pre-outs for an amp, you could hook up any amp you wish, and generally if you do get an external amp you want to make it a significant difference (a doubling of power will only net you an additional 3dB spl for example). You might keep experimenting with speakers, moving them to different positions, etc....

Yeah that's a good point too. I didn't even look at his avr specs.

If it doesn't have preouts an amp won't help you. Might be time for a new avr, but there's some troubleshooting you can do still. I'd start by inspecting all of your speaker cables and make sure you have good, clean connections at the binding posts. No stray strands poking out, or damaged insulation anywhere. I had an issue with a receiver going into protection mode and it turned out our puppy chewed one of the speaker cables. Once it was replaced the problem was gone.

 

[j_garcia]

connect only one of the mains at a time and see if there is only one that has an issue. At the same time, check all the connections on the receiver side, remove them and reconnect. This sounds like a short, not a power issue. Could be a wiring problem as mentioned, or a potentially damaged speaker.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey all, I have a frustrating dilemma with my pioneer vsx- lx303 surround sound receiver, I purchased a year and a half ago and haven't used because it doesnt like my energy cf-30 front tower, and center channel speakers. The receiver shuts of during setup when testing these speakers, but works if I replace one with one of the energy satellite speakers that I have for surrounds. I contacted pioneer, and they told me it's because the the speakers are rated at a peak power higher than the receivers amp can produce. This does make sense, but then again doesn't because the speakers are recommended from 20 to 200 watts, and the receiver is producing 100 Watts @ 8 ohms. My old Denon 5.1, 70 watt per channel receiver powered them beautifully with no problems. I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to have to get a external amp to power the 3 front speakers, but am having trouble finding one. The only 3 channel amp I can find is the emotiva xp9- 3gen, which is a little too much power, and a little more than I want to spend. Which leads me to my first question. Does the external amp for the front speakers have to be the exact same wattage per channel as the receivers? And any recommendations for a external amp? Or do I have any other options?

Your speakers are 2.5 way towers, with a nominal 8 ohm impedance, but a minimum if 4 ohm. Now the minimal impedance is the truth and nominal a fiction and picked out of the air. So when the lower woofer kicks in below 500 Hz or so, the impedance is going to drop to 4 ohms. It has to, as they will be 8 ohm drivers. That is right in the power range.

To drive those speakers you will need a receiver with a guaranteed four ohm spec. They are far and few between now. So you have an expense I'm afraid, at the minimum you will need a different receiver with four ohm spec, or better one with pre outs and a an external power amp to drive those speakers.
This will be a significant outlay.

In my view a receiver that can not drive those speakers is next to useless, but I bet a lot of the new ones can't without risking an early trip to the grave yard. As I keep saying, receivers are a mess, and its long overdue to see the back of them.

 

[Pogre]

Your speakers are 2.5 way towers, with a nominal 8 ohm impedance, but a minimum if 4 ohm. Now the minimal impedance is the truth and nominal a fiction and picked out of the air. So when the lower woofer kicks in below 500 Hz or so, the impedance is going to drop to 4 ohms. It has to, as they will be 8 ohm drivers. That is right in the power range.

To drive those speakers you will need a receiver with a guaranteed four ohm spec. They are far and few between now. So you have an expense I'm afraid, at the minimum you will need a different receiver with four ohm spec, or better one with pre outs and a an external power amp to drive those speakers.
This will be a significant outlay.

In my view a receiver that can not drive those speakers is next to useless, but I bet a lot of the new ones can't without risking an early trip to the grave yard. As I keep saying, receivers are a mess, and its long overdue to see the back of them.

Shutting down during setup tho? I think there's more to this than difficult impedance. I suspect there's a connection issue like some stray strands or damaged cord, but OP hasn't been back to let us know if he even checked it.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Buy a cheap multimeter and measure the resistance at the terminals of each speaker. And make doubly sure there aren't any wires touching. It sounds to me like you have a short somewhere.

 

[TLS Guy]

Buy a cheap multimeter and measure the resistance at the terminals of each speaker. And make doubly sure there aren't any wires touching. It sounds to me like you have a short somewhere.

The problem with that argument is that he says his old Denon drives them fine which it would not if he had a short.

Also Onkyo and Pioneer receivers are now to be considered as junk brands, to be vigorously avoided. Yes, other side of the street avoided.

The rapid rise of good speakers at affordable prices that are active with DSP, will soon end this receiver nonsense. The faster we make that the rule, the better off everyone will be.

 

[Verdinut]

Affordable active speakers with DSP are a good idea. With regard to active subwoofers though, there's room for a major improvement as we know. At present, passive subs with external amplification are much more long lasting. Amps need to breathe.

 

[TLS Guy]

Affordable active speakers with DSP are a good idea. With regard to active subwoofers though, there's room for a major improvement as we know. At present, passive subs with external amplification are much more long lasting. Amps need to breathe.

There is no reason that has to be true. Class D amps can be long lasting. I think it is poorly made power supply sections of subs that are the problem. Powered speakers with DSP and class A/B amps are starting to appear.