Using older receivers with full discrete amps as amps with my Denon X4300H for driving 7.1.4

[i_max]

Hello,

since I’ve been working on my HT setup. I’ve thought of adding amps to drive the floor speakers, setup is in my sig. I’ve looked at many amps and I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars really.

That said I’ve read a bunch of older reviews and it sounds like the older receivers used to come built really well with a lot of horsepower. I have been looking at 2009-2011 years where a lot of amps can be found 5-9 channel with 100+ wpc and not just measured at 2 channel levels compared to today. So I have been monitoring eBay to spend maybe $400-$500 to find at least from the description non damaged ones.

so first of all is this a waste of money? I’d probably get some square trade to cover the money, but no one knows how long will they last? They probably are built better then today’s components.
Some of the ones I’m currently considering:

1. Denon avr 4311ci 140 WPC 9 channel ~ $500
2. Denon AVR 5800 170 WPC 7 channel (60 pound beast) ~ $550
3. Yamaha rx-a1000 7 channel 105WPC ~$250
4. Yamaha Rx-v663 7 channel 95wpc~$130

Please advise if this isn’t the wise choice if not, please make some suggestions for good value/performance receivers you liked from back in the day.

 

[Pogre]

You already have a capable receiver don't you? What's your goal here? I wouldn't expect any difference in sound quality...

 

[i_max]

You already have a capable receiver don't you? What's your goal here? I wouldn't expect any difference in sound quality...

I really wanted to see if there might be better performance from the setup when an amp is giving stable wattage to the LCR + the rear. The Denon I’m not sure what it would come down to when driving my polks in terms of per channel output.

I was also reading it might help increasing the life of the 4300 when some of the work is getting handled by another amp.

 

[ryanosaur]

Active cooling will help extend the lifespan of your AVR. I like solutions from AC Infinity.

Several Polks are known to have fairly poor electrical behavior. What are your speakers? Trying to string together different used AVRs does not sound like a winning strategy, rather looking for a solid AVR to just handle the Front 3 would be best. Either 3 Outlaw Monoblock 2220s, for example... Or (and I hate suggesting this) an Emotiva XPA-3.
But again, it depends so much on your speakers as well as your listening habits and setup.
(How loud. How far you sit. How large is the room....)

 

[Verdinut]

I really wanted to see if there might be better performance from the setup when an amp is giving stable wattage to the LCR + the rear. The Denon I’m not sure what it would come down to when driving my polks in terms of per channel output.

I was also reading it might help increasing the life of the 4300 when some of the work is getting handled by another amp.

Is your present AVR struggling to drive your speakers at the SPL you usually listen to? If not, I would just recommend, if you haven't done it already, that you install a couple of fans on top of it. That would help prolonging its usable life:

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-AC-Powered-Playstation-Component/dp/B01MZ6VNII/ref=sr_1_2?crid=NYFHYGWRLOEB&dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+fan+200mm&qid=1614969831&sprefix=AC+infinity+fans+20%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-2

As for the per channel output, the most power required in home theatre is for the three front speakers. The power required for surround and any Atmos speakers is a lot less. As I said, if the sound performance is to your liking at present, why trying to find an improvement? An increase in amp power doesn't necessarily mean a better sound quality.

You can calculate how much power you need with this:

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[i_max]

Active cooling will help extend the lifespan of your AVR. I like solutions from AC Infinity.

Several Polks are known to have fairly poor electrical behavior. What are your speakers? Trying to string together different used AVRs does not sound like a winning strategy, rather looking for a solid AVR to just handle the Front 3 would be best. Either 3 Outlaw Monoblock 2220s, for example... Or (and I hate suggesting this) an Emotiva XPA-3.
But again, it depends so much on your speakers as well as your listening habits and setup.
(How loud. How far you sit. How large is the room....)

So I have the Polks LSiM 707, 706C, 703 (rears), 702 f/x surrounds. And 4x 80 LS F/x ceiling speakers. About 1600 cubic feet room, and mlp is about 11ft deep in a 17 long x 12 feet wide room.

 

[ryanosaur]

So I have the Polks LSiM 707, 706C, 703 (rears), 702 f/x surrounds. And 4x 80 LS F/x ceiling speakers. About 1600 cubic feet room, and mlp is about 11ft deep in a 17 long x 12 feet wide room.

I had a typo in that post... not looking for a solid AVR, rather looking for solid AMPS. And yes, some of those LSiMs are known to drop below 4 ohms with challenging phase angles (45º) which means the Amp being used must be stable with a 3 Ohm load and be able to dissipate excess heat caused by that phase angle.

 

[Pogre]

The point is, if you're gonna do it, do it right and get a dedicated 2 or 3 channel amp. Or get a couple of monoblocks like the 200w Outlaws. There's pro gear too. You can get some pretty good bang for buck with Crown, QSC or other pro amps.

You can get 2 Outlaw 2220s for $799 (or 3 for $999) if you bundle and they should be able to handle about anything your speakers throw at them.

Model 2220

Mono? Mini? Micro? Magnificent? Whatever that M is, this is one UNREAL little single-channel amp. 200 Watts (conservatively!) into a 3-inch chassis with balanced input stage to offer Common Mode Rejection! MANUAL See Front Panel Huge See Rear Panel Huge

outlawaudio.com

 

[lovinthehd]

If you just wanted to put an old avr you had to use, maybe use one as amp. The models with multi-ch analog inputs would be the most suited to using as an amp alone. The 5800 of that bunch is at least more powerful than your current avr but not by a lot. The older avrs reputation is a bit overblown I think, too. I'd look for significantly more capability in an external amp, personally I like Crown XLS amps for the power/value proposition.

 

[i_max]

I actually bought and returned some of the monoprice

Monoprice 300-Watt (150w RMS x2) Studio Audio Amplifier (605030) Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011JNVIYI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2J7DHVRBHF2BQ8Y4HRYH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

amps one each to use in bridge mode, but read they were pretty poor in performance, review on audio science forums.

I’m interested in the Crowns, I got a 42u rack, so they will go in there well. Which ones would you recommend?I can also get a used Monoprice Monoblock 3x 200 watt used around ~$1k, that perhaps is a pretty good performer?

there is also this one

OSD Nero HTA5200 Multi Channel (5X) 145W/Ch Home Theater Amplifier

Check out the deal on OSD Nero HTA5200 Multi Channel (5X) 145W/Ch Home Theater Amplifier at Outdoor Speaker Depot

www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com

apparently a clone of the outlaw 5 channel amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

I actually bought and returned some of the monoprice

Monoprice 300-Watt (150w RMS x2) Studio Audio Amplifier (605030) Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011JNVIYI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2J7DHVRBHF2BQ8Y4HRYH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

amps one each to use in bridge mode, but read they were pretty poor in performance, review on audio science forums.

I’m interested in the Crowns, I got a 42u rack, so they will go in there well. Which ones would you recommend?I can also get a used Monoprice Monoblock 3x 200 watt used around ~$1k, that perhaps is a pretty good performer?

Only Monoprice amps I'd look at are the Monolith line. Not sure how a monoblock amp can have three channels....

I have several XLS1500s (first gen) and one 2502 (2nd gen). Pick one for the price/power you want, altho I'd generally stick to the 1500/1502 and up due better snr spec.

 

[i_max]

Only Monoprice amps I'd look at are the Monolith line. Not sure how a monoblock amp can have three channels....

I have several XLS1500s (first gen) and one 2502 (2nd gen). Pick one for the price/power you want, altho I'd generally stick to the 1500/1502 and up due better snr spec.

This one

Monolith by Monoprice 3x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs - Monoprice.com

The Monolith™ 3X is a state‑of‑the‑art, high‑performance, audiophile‑grade multichannel home theater amplifier. Rated at a full 200 watts per

www.monoprice.com

 

[ryanosaur]

I forgot about Monolith... I would take that over Emotiva! But those Outlaw 2220s are solid amps! Put a shelf that can support ~75# in you rack and you can stack 3. No ears that I am aware of.

 

[i_max]

The crown XLS 1502 with 2x300watts @ 8ohm sounds like plenty of power for my LR, plus the price is really good. It I have them run with the crown and the center with the Denon or a Yamaha receiver I already have, would that still be okay?

edit: also looked at the 1002 that also looks pretty good.

 

[ryanosaur]

1002 that also looks pretty good.

1502. the 1002 has a worse SNR rating.
More importantly, the Crowns I think are stable to 2 Ohms.

 

[lovinthehd]

This one

Monolith by Monoprice 3x200 Watts Per Channel Multi-Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier with XLR Inputs - Monoprice.com

The Monolith™ 3X is a state‑of‑the‑art, high‑performance, audiophile‑grade multichannel home theater amplifier. Rated at a full 200 watts per

www.monoprice.com

Didn't think it was a monoblock Personally when it comes to the Monolith series I'd just get more amp channels if spending that kind of money, that's where it becomes a better value. A pair of 1502s gets you 4 more powerful channels for less, but yes for the difference in snr spec alone I've stuck to the 1500s and above, altho it likely won't make any audible difference, plus if going external may as well get as much power as you can afford.

 

[i_max]

Didn't think it was a monoblock Personally when it comes to the Monolith series I'd just get more amp channels if spending that kind of money, that's where it becomes a better value. A pair of 1502s gets you 4 more powerful channels for less, but yes for the difference in snr spec alone I've stuck to the 1500s and above, altho it likely won't make any audible difference, plus if going external may as well get as much power as you can afford.

I agree with this.
My only concern is if the LCR was not feeding from the same receiver if it would make a difference?

 

[lovinthehd]

I agree with this.
My only concern is if the LCR was not feeding from the same receiver if it would make a difference?

Like I said earlier, the best path would be with a unit utilizing the multi-ch inputs as those generally bypass processing in the avr, allowing it to act more as a pure amplifier, rather than adding processing of any type (altho likely not audible anyways). Difference in most solid state amps, not significant in most cases, add something like tube amps or extreme designs, who knows.

 

[i_max]

Like I said earlier, the best path would be with a unit utilizing the multi-ch inputs as those generally bypass processing in the avr, allowing it to act more as a pure amplifier, rather than adding processing of any type (altho likely not audible anyways). Difference in most solid state amps, not significant in most cases, add something like tube amps or extreme designs, who knows.

That is how I was planning to use an older AVR for, use rca analog ins for 5-7 channels. My understanding was the older AVRs say like 5800 didn’t come down a whole lot on per channel output when all output are being simultaneously used, say in the case of my 4300 could significantly drop in power output when all channels were bring utilized, at least that was what my understanding was. I have an older yamaha htr 4065, bought as a stop gap when in 2011 my onkyo 7 channel quit in its 2nd or 3rd year, this Yamaha is rated for 80 wpc with 2 channel driven, is what I had setup for front LRs, and leaving the rest to the denon.

 

[cpp]

Denon avr 4311ci , I've owned this AVR since it came out and its still going strong, knocking on wood. But its getting old in the tooth on supporting features when matched with a newer TV, and supporting speaker options, ATMOS, etc....