Amplifiers and point of diminishing returns

[funbobby]

Right now I have a pair of monoblocks using Purify modules. I've very pleased for now with the sound quality of my system with them in place.

That said, we all have some "dream systems" that we would one day like to work up towards. Currently, one of my dream setups consists of a pair of Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks, a Mcintosh Preamp and some B&W 802 d3. I hear there is very good synergy with the Mcintosh & B&W combo. I also had my eye on Bryston 7B3 monoblocks and 17b3 Preamp, which is a good amount less in price (unsure which speakers I'd go with here, but would start with some Magnepan 1.7i that I have, as I hear they have very good synergy).

The Bryston 7B3 monoblocks are about 6X the cost as my current Purifi-based monoblocks. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks are about 2X the price of the Bryston 7B3 monoblocks.
The Mcintosh are about 12X the price of the Purifi-based monoblocks.

My questions: are the differences between purifi amps, Bryston 7B3 and Mcintosh MC1.25KW wide enough to really justify the added cost of the latter two? Would I get anywhere even close to 6x-12x better sound quality? Would that money be better placed on getting a higher tier of speaker? I want the most realistic reproduction possible, not exaggerated or colored.

Not only do my purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion, they have pretty good damping factor, run cool to the touch and weight about as much as a gallon of milk each. The Bryston 7B3 are about 50 lbs each and will undoubtedly run noticeably hotter. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW are about 150 lbs each and will also run hotter. Lifting the latter will be tough. I'd probably have to put them in a cabinet that has casters to make it easier to relocate if needed. They also take up more space.

If it's a 10% improvement moving up to either, I don't think it'd be worth looking at getting even as a long-term dream system goal. There's lots of other things that could be done with that money.

Just wondering what you all think.

Thanks!

 

[NINaudio]

Synergy between amps and speakers sounds like a whole lot of hogwash to me.

You're not going to find many people here who put much faith in statements like that.

If you're concern is to improve sound quality you should put the money into better speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

It would likely be no improvement at all.
I think Bruno's designs with Hypex and Purifi are likely the better options available.
Unless you just think that Class D is not "Audiophile."
(BTW, I have 5 ea Hypex NC400s and the SMPSs to build a 5-channel monoblock amp. I would not trade that for any of the Amps you mentioned.)

That said, I've only heard people talk about the 800 series from B&W... I still want to hear them, but I will never want to buy them. If I have 10K bouncing around, I'll have Salk build me some SS9.5s.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd say differences among good amps is negligible (like less than 1%), and at the level of amp you have now don't have any idea what you expect to be "better" or improved (more powerful perhaps if you need the power). You have some fine amps now, I'd just use them instead of making what is likely only a lateral move.

Synergy means what? Some particular magic match of electrical properties?

While the top end B&Ws generally get good marks, never desired them myself, I'd rather have JBL M2s or a few other JBLs....or just DIY.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'd say differences among good amps is negligible (like less than 1%), and at the level of amp you have now don't have any idea what you expect to be "better" or improved (more powerful perhaps if you need the power). You have some fine amps now, I'd just use them instead of making what is likely only a lateral move.

Synergy means what? Some particular magic match of electrical properties?

While the top end B&Ws generally get good marks, never desired them myself, I'd rather have JBL M2s or a few other JBLs....or just DIY.

Maybe if I were going to shoot the moon, some JTR 215s and those Megaschino Amps Jeff uses in his set up.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe if I were going to shoot the moon, some JTR 215s and those Megaschino Amps Jeff uses in his set up.

Yeah that could work....altho I already have plenty of amps, if I didn't. I'd consider Tommy's (and now that you mention it I haven't seen him around lately). The 215RT or DIY definite contenders with the JBLs

 

[ryanosaur]

Yeah that could work....altho I already have plenty of amps, if I didn't. I'd consider Tommy's (and now that you mention it I haven't seen him around lately). The 215RT or DIY definite contenders with the JBLs

I don't know if JTR Jeff was using the MkII or the original, but Gagman's video of the JTR experience showed him having these in his set up... 2 monoblocks I think.

Cherry Amps - Sweet, Juicy Sound.

Home to robust and graceful amplifiers, silky smooth digital-to-analog converters, and other hifi audio products.

www.cherryamp.com

Mind, those 215s need some love to power properly.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know if JTR Jeff was using the MkII or the original, but Gagman's video of the JTR experience showed him having these in his set up... 2 monoblocks I think.

Cherry Amps - Sweet, Juicy Sound.

Home to robust and graceful amplifiers, silky smooth digital-to-analog converters, and other hifi audio products.

www.cherryamp.com

Mind, those 215s need some love to power properly.

LOL just noticed the gagman review on Tommy's site....

 

[Kingnoob]

Right now I have a pair of monoblocks using Purify modules. I've very pleased for now with the sound quality of my system with them in place.

That said, we all have some "dream systems" that we would one day like to work up towards. Currently, one of my dream setups consists of a pair of Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks, a Mcintosh Preamp and some B&W 802 d3. I hear there is very good synergy with the Mcintosh & B&W combo. I also had my eye on Bryston 7B3 monoblocks and 17b3 Preamp, which is a good amount less in price (unsure which speakers I'd go with here, but would start with some Magnepan 1.7i that I have, as I hear they have very good synergy).

The Bryston 7B3 monoblocks are about 6X the cost as my current Purifi-based monoblocks. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks are about 2X the price of the Bryston 7B3 monoblocks.
The Mcintosh are about 12X the price of the Purifi-based monoblocks.

My questions: are the differences between purifi amps, Bryston 7B3 and Mcintosh MC1.25KW wide enough to really justify the added cost of the latter two? Would I get anywhere even close to 6x-12x better sound quality? Would that money be better placed on getting a higher tier of speaker? I want the most realistic reproduction possible, not exaggerated or colored.

Not only do my purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion, they have pretty good damping factor, run cool to the touch and weight about as much as a gallon of milk each. The Bryston 7B3 are about 50 lbs each and will undoubtedly run noticeably hotter. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW are about 150 lbs each and will also run hotter. Lifting the latter will be tough. I'd probably have to put them in a cabinet that has casters to make it easier to relocate if needed. They also take up more space.

If it's a 10% improvement moving up to either, I don't think it'd be worth looking at getting even as a long-term dream system goal. There's lots of other things that could be done with that money.

Just wondering what you all think.

Thanks!

Stick to your amps and get a cooling fan thingy ...”purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion” is your answer what did they cost ? Probably best choice... your just paying for name brand on other two .
Different speakers will sound different and not all ultra expensive speakers are better then mid range ones . Some are , I’m too noob to tell you much more .

 

[flyboylr45]

Coming from a Mac system with B &W 802D2, I'd say the Macs are beautiful not just to listen to, but to stare at. If money doesn't matter much as it usually is when you buy new Mac stuff, then yes, buy the Macs. Chances are its not going to sound better than what you have now but it will definitely be a show piece. The B&Ws lack in bass. When I had the 802s, I had 2 SVS SB13Ultras, one per channel. This was strictly a 2 channel system in a dedicated and treated room. I had my dream system with the Mac. They hold their value incredibly well. I sold all of it in a week.

Now I have a system that I couldn't have dreamt of. The dynamics, clarity, and BASS authority this system produces puts a smile on your face. And I'm still waiting for the top subs for my towers.

I'll be the first to admit though, Mac gear is beautiful and gives a sense of pride. Its a hobby. Not everything has to be about measurements. Mac amps are nice but, I'd put my ATIs up against them any day.

The B&Ws are gorgeous speakers but look like midgets next to the SVTRS. They sound like bookshelfs next to them too.

I will say, the Mac MEN220 crossover with RoomPerfect room correction was my favorite piece. I'm a fan of RoomPerfect. Hopefully the Bohmer I'm getting will best it.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[sterling shoote]

Right now I have a pair of monoblocks using Purify modules. I've very pleased for now with the sound quality of my system with them in place.

That said, we all have some "dream systems" that we would one day like to work up towards. Currently, one of my dream setups consists of a pair of Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks, a Mcintosh Preamp and some B&W 802 d3. I hear there is very good synergy with the Mcintosh & B&W combo. I also had my eye on Bryston 7B3 monoblocks and 17b3 Preamp, which is a good amount less in price (unsure which speakers I'd go with here, but would start with some Magnepan 1.7i that I have, as I hear they have very good synergy).

The Bryston 7B3 monoblocks are about 6X the cost as my current Purifi-based monoblocks. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks are about 2X the price of the Bryston 7B3 monoblocks.
The Mcintosh are about 12X the price of the Purifi-based monoblocks.

My questions: are the differences between purifi amps, Bryston 7B3 and Mcintosh MC1.25KW wide enough to really justify the added cost of the latter two? Would I get anywhere even close to 6x-12x better sound quality? Would that money be better placed on getting a higher tier of speaker? I want the most realistic reproduction possible, not exaggerated or colored.

Not only do my purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion, they have pretty good damping factor, run cool to the touch and weight about as much as a gallon of milk each. The Bryston 7B3 are about 50 lbs each and will undoubtedly run noticeably hotter. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW are about 150 lbs each and will also run hotter. Lifting the latter will be tough. I'd probably have to put them in a cabinet that has casters to make it easier to relocate if needed. They also take up more space.

If it's a 10% improvement moving up to either, I don't think it'd be worth looking at getting even as a long-term dream system goal. There's lots of other things that could be done with that money.

Just wondering what you all think.

Thanks!

Diminishing returns is not an element, or factor to my buying desisions. I buy pursuant to satisfying a need and I pursue with caution, since making a mistake in the arena of audio/video buying decisions can be costly. In the last 4 years I have purchased 4 components out of a desire for functionality and the best performance from my budget. These 4 aforementioned components include: Schitt Mani, Technics SL-1210GR, OPPO-205, and Parasound P6. So far, all of these purchases are performing as expected, or they're exceeding expectations. And, interestingly enough, although I did not anticipate that any of these purchases would deliver a "best there is experience", I do wonder how making any other decision for the money, or perhaps for any amount of money, could make me happier, since I seem to be getting all the qualities associated with high-end. At any rate, I do not chase the latest and greatest because it just seems kind of like a fools errand; nevertheless, how others spend or don't spend their discretionary income is none of my business. My comment here is just to say "diminishing returns" is not something I've ever considered when making a purchase other than for my business enterprises.

 

[Movie2099]

Right now I have a pair of monoblocks using Purify modules. I've very pleased for now with the sound quality of my system with them in place.

That said, we all have some "dream systems" that we would one day like to work up towards. Currently, one of my dream setups consists of a pair of Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks, a Mcintosh Preamp and some B&W 802 d3. I hear there is very good synergy with the Mcintosh & B&W combo. I also had my eye on Bryston 7B3 monoblocks and 17b3 Preamp, which is a good amount less in price (unsure which speakers I'd go with here, but would start with some Magnepan 1.7i that I have, as I hear they have very good synergy).

The Bryston 7B3 monoblocks are about 6X the cost as my current Purifi-based monoblocks. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks are about 2X the price of the Bryston 7B3 monoblocks.
The Mcintosh are about 12X the price of the Purifi-based monoblocks.

My questions: are the differences between purifi amps, Bryston 7B3 and Mcintosh MC1.25KW wide enough to really justify the added cost of the latter two? Would I get anywhere even close to 6x-12x better sound quality? Would that money be better placed on getting a higher tier of speaker? I want the most realistic reproduction possible, not exaggerated or colored.

Not only do my purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion, they have pretty good damping factor, run cool to the touch and weight about as much as a gallon of milk each. The Bryston 7B3 are about 50 lbs each and will undoubtedly run noticeably hotter. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW are about 150 lbs each and will also run hotter. Lifting the latter will be tough. I'd probably have to put them in a cabinet that has casters to make it easier to relocate if needed. They also take up more space.

If it's a 10% improvement moving up to either, I don't think it'd be worth looking at getting even as a long-term dream system goal. There's lots of other things that could be done with that money.

Just wondering what you all think.

Thanks!

I'm curious about your "dream setup" why you would drop $25k on two mono amps, and another $10k for amp, but only get the B&W 802 D3's? You have to get the 800 D3's to match with those. That's the best combo. You're dream setup is not so "dream" like if you don't get the 800 D3's.

Don't forget to include some AudioQuest cables. So figure to spend around $10k for cables. You'll also need AudioQuests power conditioner. So add another $6k at least. So I'm thinking you should be able to get your system for around $80-$85k. That's not bad. I don't' think you should wait either. Go out now and get it! No reason to wait! Audioholics don't wait!

 

[Speedskater]

Synergy between amps and speakers sounds like a whole lot of hogwash to me.

It's just the opposite!
Many reasonable & accurate amplifiers are not designed to drive some popular speakers.
The Stereophile loudspeaker test panels sometimes have a statement about a speaker being a demanding load.
When a speaker is a very low impedance, or a high capacitance or inductive load, many amplifiers are not a good choice.

 

[Mikado463]

Synergy between amps and speakers sounds like a whole lot of hogwash to me.

actually your statement at face value is incorrect.

You're not going to find many people here who put much faith in statements like that.

I'll remove the generalization from your statement. There are plenty of very good speakers out there with their own set of load challenges that can be presented to ones amplifier. So yes, synergy, compatibility, call it what you want can and does come into play.

If you're concern is to improve sound quality you should put the money into better speakers.

to this we agree but only with the understanding of said speakers 'needs'

 

[Kvn_Walker]

It's just the opposite!
Many reasonable & accurate amplifiers are not designed to drive some popular speakers.
The Stereophile loudspeaker test panels sometimes have a statement about a speaker being a demanding load.
When a speaker is a very low impedance, or a high capacitance or inductive load, many amplifiers are not a good choice.

Definitely truth to that... PSB Stratus Goldi's I just bought can make my receiver hot enough to use as a stove burner. They sound amazing, but they need a more robust amp than I can provide downstairs.

 

[Kingnoob]

I'm curious about your "dream setup" why you would drop $25k on two mono amps, and another $10k for amp, but only get the B&W 802 D3's? You have to get the 800 D3's to match with those. That's the best combo. You're dream setup is not so "dream" like if you don't get the 800 D3's.

Don't forget to include some AudioQuest cables. So figure to spend around $10k for cables. You'll also need AudioQuests power conditioner. So add another $6k at least. So I'm thinking you should be able to get your system for around $80-$85k. That's not bad. I don't' think you should wait either. Go out now and get it! No reason to wait! Audioholics don't wait!

Special cables are usually just a snake oil charms , I don’t understand the 30-60k speaker market are you paying for style or audio performance ?
Might as well find these used https://www.bowerswilkins.com/home-audio/nautilus


Those look better then b & w https://rbhsound.com/svtrs.php
Actually get a mammoth speaker ....
This is a strange looking speaker... https://rbhsound.com/statusacoustics/8t.php
At some point your paying for speaker furniture looks amazing but what does 15-30k sound like ?
these are only 9k , looks like they can beat much more expensive speakers.

Ulfberht

Named after medieval-era Viking swords, the Ulfberht loudspeaker is the ultimate hammer/butterfly of sonic expression, striking out at the listener with percussive elements and a velocity that matches…

www.tektondesign.com

 

[Pogre]

The system I have now would have been a dream system to me 5 years ago or so.

 

[Mikado463]

The system I have now would have been a dream system to me 5 years ago or so.

see, dreams do come true !

 

[ryanosaur]

The system I have now would have been a dream system to me 5 years ago or so.

ETA for the Horizon?

 

[Mikado463]

Right now I have a pair of monoblocks using Purify modules. I've very pleased for now with the sound quality of my system with them in place.

That said, we all have some "dream systems" that we would one day like to work up towards. Currently, one of my dream setups consists of a pair of Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks, a Mcintosh Preamp and some B&W 802 d3. I hear there is very good synergy with the Mcintosh & B&W combo. I also had my eye on Bryston 7B3 monoblocks and 17b3 Preamp, which is a good amount less in price (unsure which speakers I'd go with here, but would start with some Magnepan 1.7i that I have, as I hear they have very good synergy).

The Bryston 7B3 monoblocks are about 6X the cost as my current Purifi-based monoblocks. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW monoblocks are about 2X the price of the Bryston 7B3 monoblocks.
The Mcintosh are about 12X the price of the Purifi-based monoblocks.

My questions: are the differences between purifi amps, Bryston 7B3 and Mcintosh MC1.25KW wide enough to really justify the added cost of the latter two? Would I get anywhere even close to 6x-12x better sound quality? Would that money be better placed on getting a higher tier of speaker? I want the most realistic reproduction possible, not exaggerated or colored.

Not only do my purify monoblocks have ultra low levels of distortion, they have pretty good damping factor, run cool to the touch and weight about as much as a gallon of milk each. The Bryston 7B3 are about 50 lbs each and will undoubtedly run noticeably hotter. The Mcintosh MC1.25KW are about 150 lbs each and will also run hotter. Lifting the latter will be tough. I'd probably have to put them in a cabinet that has casters to make it easier to relocate if needed. They also take up more space.

If it's a 10% improvement moving up to either, I don't think it'd be worth looking at getting even as a long-term dream system goal. There's lots of other things that could be done with that money.

Just wondering what you all think.

Thanks!

Long time Maggie lover here. Yes the 1.7i's are great speakers for the $$, albeit rather 'bass shy', nothing that a sub or two couldn't fix ! Yes to your 'higher tier' of speaker and if you have the room.........

First Listen: Magnepan 3.7i loudspeaker - The Absolute Sound

First Listen: Magnepan 3.7i loudspeaker -

www.theabsolutesound.com