Subwoofer amplifiers

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi all. I was a member for a while and am now back. I designed and built two subwoofers - one for musical instrument bass and the other for my home theater.

The musical instrument bass cabinet has an Eminence 15 inch driver. It's used for light duty keyboard bass. The home theater cabinet has an Eminence Lab 12 drive. Neither cabinet has a crossover.

I was driving these subs independently with a Behringer iNuke6000. It had a crossover, high and low pass filters, EQ, etc...everything I need including a low weight. It was 6 years old and never overdriven. Guess what? The Behringer literally exploded last night in the middle of a movie! It scared the "you know what" out of me!! The wife heard the explosion 75 feet away on a different level of the house.

So, I need a new amp and can't find what I'm looking for. Portability is kind of important. So many of these amps don't have filters and crossovers, and weigh a ton. Any suggestions are most welcome. Thanks and stay safe...

- Lee

EDIT
After a bit of research, I was wondering about the Crown XLS1502. Anyone have experience with this. I know Crown is very good. I wonder how loud the fans are.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Well, keep in mind that with the XLS you’re going from one entry level amp to another, so don’t be surprised if it doesn’t give better service than the Behri did.

Frankly I don’t have much faith in these bread-loaf amplifiers. I don’t think any of them are going to last 20-30 years like the old “lead sled” amplifiers would. I have a Carvin DCM-1540L in the closet that couldn’t stand more than 4-5 years of light-duty use driving a home theater subwoofer. I guess I should be thankful that it died quietly and didn’t blow up.

And of course we get reports of these Behringers failing all the time. There’s probably a reason why the more serious amplifiers are heavier, as it seems even digital amps benefit from a robust power supply.

Thus, unless you are really married to something under 10 lbs, I’d suggest looking at something more upscale like the Crest Pro Lite amps or their Peavey cousins.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[lovinthehd]

I've had some of my XLS 1500s (four total) in use for 8/9 years now, and at least 5 years on the others. Mostly on sub duty, but some mains use as well. You'd need external dsp to match the capabilities of the Behringer you had, you need to move up the ladder with Crown to get the more capable dsp (the XLS has dsp suitable for crossover but not the other features you had). You can add a minidsp 2x4 or similar, tho. I'd definitely put Crown's basic lines of amps over Behringer in any case. You could check out QSC amps perhaps as well.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Many thanks for the quick replies! I never thought about the other makes. I've looked at Yamaha too. The weight component is not overly critical. Perhaps I need to step a little higher toward the work horse zone. And then, there's the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor - like you didn't already know what that meant !)

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

 

[lovinthehd]

Many thanks for the quick replies! I never thought about the other makes. I've looked at Yamaha too. The weight component is not overly critical. Perhaps I need to step a little higher toward the work horse zone. And then, there's the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor - like you didn't already know what that meant !)

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

I know what it is but never had to worry about it. Some of the pro amps ain't so pretty, that's for sure.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I was going over the Yamaha PX3 specs. It's a pretty attractive amp for my purposes. The cooling fan noise reviews are mixed. Seems these are fairly quiet.

 

[lovinthehd]

That is one nice thing about the XLS series, very quiet. That PX-3 looks like it should fill the bill, tho.....good luck on the fan thing.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the help, lovinthehd .

 

[NINaudio]

I've never heard any fan noise at all from my Crown XLS 1502, super quiet. Mines been in use for ~3 years now. Add a mini dsp and you'll have all the functionality you are looking for.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, NINaudio. It appears there are some very fine contenders out there to the unexpected disaster of my Behringer.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

A quick follow-up, guys. Thanks for all the input. I received my Yamaha PX3 and hooked it up to my home theater setup. I'm hearing bass I never heard before with the Behringer. I find that I don't really need DSPs and paramteric EQ if I built the sub cabinet correctly.

The only setting I'm having trouble with is the input sensitivity/amplifier gain setting. For the input sensitivity, I have the choice of +4dBu and +14bBu. For the Gain, I have 26dB or 32dB. I have absolutely no clue where to set these. I took the time to read about 5 web pages about this and am still no further ahead because no one speaks to the less learned about this topic. Any help here would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

The +4dBu is generally used with a balanced connector, the +14dBu for unbalanced (I think.... but usually it's +4dB vs -10dB?....rusty so maybe mine is backwards). The higher gain setting might be useful for a low pre-out level if that's an issue....

What guidance did the PX3 manual offer?

 

[Lee Batchelor]

What guidance did the PX3 manual offer?

Not much. I own a fair number of Yamaha music and audio products and find their manuals written to advanced level users only. I should have mentioned that I'm sending the Subwoofer out signal from my Denon amp to the PX3. It's an RCA to 1/4 inch unbalanced line. Thanks, by the way!

 

[lovinthehd]

Not much. I own a fair number of Yamaha music and audio products and find their manuals written to advanced level users only. I should have mentioned that I'm sending the Subwoofer out signal from my Denon amp to the PX3. It's an RCA to 1/4 inch unbalanced line. Thanks, by the way!

Yeah I glanced at the manual, wasn't very extensive. One nice thing about the Crown XLS is they are a bit more consumer friendly with rca inputs (as well as balanced) and sensitivity settings (.775V vs 1.4V). What settings did you settle on (assuming some experimentation)?

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I used the default setting, which is +4dBu. I also looked into the Crown amps. I know they make great products but I didn't see one with a high and low pass filter on a single channel. For some reason they put one filter on Channel A and the other on channel B. My subs don't have any crossovers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I used the default setting, which is +4dBu. I also looked into the Crown amps. I know they make great products but I didn't see one with a high and low pass filter on a single channel. For some reason they put one filter on Channel A and the other on channel B. My subs don't have any crossovers.

I've never used the hpf or lpf on my Crowns, but they are more intended for splitting the crossover between a pro top/bottom speaker arrangement. I use other gear for hpf/lpf in any case....

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed. I set my LP to about 100Hz and the Hp to 35HZ, as per the speaker driver's specs. I see why Crown would do it their way - the bass driver on Channel A and the HF driver on Channel B. I'll check the rest of their product line to see of they have anything that matches my needs.

Do you have any other amp manufacturer recommendations? I'm so far, happy with the PX3 but it is close to maxing out on the power side.

 

[lovinthehd]

Agreed. I set my LP to about 100Hz and the Hp to 35HZ, as per the speaker driver's specs. I see why Crown would do it their way - the bass driver on Channel A and the HF driver on Channel B. I'll check the rest of their product line to see of they have anything that matches my needs.

Do you have any other amp manufacturer recommendations? I'm so far, happy with the PX3 but it is close to maxing out on the power side.

QSC is the only other that comes to mind that I'd consider outside of some more expensive stuff like SpeakerPower or Powersoft amps....Lab Gruppen maybe, but they're part of Behringer now fwiw.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, thanks for the help! I'll check into the QSC stuff too.

 

[Verdinut]

Okay, thanks for the help! I'll check into the QSC stuff too.

You are questioning about fan noise on pro audio amplifiers. How far will you be sitting away from the subwoofer amp?

I'm using QSC DCA Series amplifiers on my HT system. If you are sitting more than 10 feet away from one, you shouldn't hear it. As a matter of fact, I'm sitting at about 6 feet away from four of them. The only one that I sometimes hear the fan from is the DCA 1824, a 4 channel amp used for the surround channels. The 2 channel 1222 or 1622 models are definitely quieter, as they have a tendency to heat less in the same volume chassis as the 1824.