I made a big OCD mistake. Need suggestions! Thanks

[mocwilson]

Hi all it's been a long time. Anyway. So I made a big mistake. Bought. Monolith 5x but now need the two more channels the 7x would have given me for only 300 bucks. So my thinking is get a nice two channel amp for music listening and use the 5x just for center and surrounds. I know it's more power then I need for surrounds really but my Denon x4500h is not capable of running the 4ohm speakers that I have....I screwed up again there. My OCD is killing me! Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Pogre]

Huh?

You have 2 amps, a 2 channel and a 5 channel, but need 2 more channels, and the 4500 can't power 4 ohm speakers? I'm cornfused. That Denon should be okay with 4 ohm speakers, especially if you're offloading the mains to an amp. That monolith is an awesome amp for music, so I don't know why you think you need a separate one for music? You should have enough of everything right now for up to 11 speakers!

 

[Leemix]

The Denon should be perfectly able to run a couple of back surrounds or atmos speakers even if hard to drive 4ohm. There isnt much power needed for those.


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[Pogre]

I think your ocd has you unnecessarily spending money on amplification. The Monolith 5 is all you need. Hook up your front 3 and side surrounds to the Mono and let the Denon take care of the rest. Forget about a separate amp for music, that's just an exercise in frivolity. The Monolith knocked it out of the park in the review and measurements here. I have one myself. I use it for my front 3 and it's as transparent and accurate as anything I've heard. It's a legit audiophile grade amplifier!

That Denon will have no problem powering even hard to drive 4 ohm effect speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

Buy two Monoblocks from Outlaw:

Model 2220

Mono? Mini? Micro? Magnificent? Whatever that M is, this is one UNREAL little single-channel amp. 200 Watts (conservatively!) into a 3-inch chassis with balanced input stage to offer Common Mode Rejection! MANUAL See Front Panel Huge See Rear Panel Huge

outlawaudio.com

Great little Amps!

 

[PENG]

Hi all it's been a long time. Anyway. So I made a big mistake. Bought. Monolith 5x but now need the two more channels the 7x would have given me for only 300 bucks. So my thinking is get a nice two channel amp for music listening and use the 5x just for center and surrounds. I know it's more power then I need for surrounds really but my Denon x4500h is not capable of running the 4ohm speakers that I have....I screwed up again there. My OCD is killing me! Any suggestions are welcome.

How far are you sitting from the furthest 4 ohm surround speakers, and what is the sensitivity specs for them? You may not need an additional amp at all.

 

[mocwilson]

Huh?

You have 2 amps, a 2 channel and a 5 channel, but need 2 more channels, and the 4500 can't power 4 ohm speakers? I'm cornfused. That Denon should be okay with 4 ohm speakers, especially if you're offloading the mains to an amp. That monolith is an awesome amp for music, so I don't know why you think you need a separate one for music? You should have enough of everything right now for up to 11 speakers!

Sorry no, I have my Denon which can do 9.1 with 11.1 processing. I bought the monolith 5x to power my floor level speakers 5.4.1 at the time but have since gone to a 7.4.1 and wanted to keep the floor speakers all powered the same. So I am kicking myself for not spending the extra on the monolith7x. I was trying to rationalize buying another amp just for the LR for my 2ch music listening, and was looking for suggestions? I have had my Denon shut off when it was powering my left and right.

 

[ryanosaur]

And I agree that you don't need to Amp every channel. The Denon and Marantz AVRs should be robust enough to handle 4 Ohm Surround, Rear and Atmos speakers.
I run 5 of those Outlaw Monoblocks (1 generation older, 2200) on my front 3 and Surrounds: My focus was on matching the Channels used in 5.1 Music as closely as possible for dynamic impact: I wanted those channels to perform as identical as possible. My Marrantz handles the Rears, and will handle the .4 Atmos when I get to it.

If anything, what you should consider is cooling for your Denon:

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Rear-Exhaust-Receivers-Components/dp/B01LW1Q429/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+t8&qid=1612726891&sr=8-2

This is a rear venting active cooling solution; they also make top and front venting versions of this model, or just some simple PC style fans like these:

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00JLV4BWC/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/135-0550896-6376331?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00JLV4BWC&pd_rd_r=191845c8-5ab6-4750-889d-1033f280783a&pd_rd_w=sfVvv&pd_rd_wg=S3TMU&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=6059QT810TG9VJKJ4JV1&psc=1&refRID=6059QT810TG9VJKJ4JV1

 

[Pogre]

And I agree that you don't need to Amp every channel. The Denon and Marantz AVRs should be robust enough to handle 4 Ohm Surround, Rear and Atmos speakers.
I run 5 of those Outlaw Monoblocks (1 generation older, 2200) on my front 3 and Surrounds: My focus was on matching the Channels used in 5.1 Music as closely as possible for dynamic impact: I wanted those channels to perform as identical as possible. My Marrantz handles the Rears, and will handle the .4 Atmos when I get to it.

If anything, what you should consider is cooling for your Denon:

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-Rear-Exhaust-Receivers-Components/dp/B01LW1Q429/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ac+infinity+t8&qid=1612726891&sr=8-2

This is a rear venting active cooling solution; they also make top and front venting versions of this model, or just some simple PC style fans like these:

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation/dp/B00JLV4BWC/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/135-0550896-6376331?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00JLV4BWC&pd_rd_r=191845c8-5ab6-4750-889d-1033f280783a&pd_rd_w=sfVvv&pd_rd_wg=S3TMU&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=6059QT810TG9VJKJ4JV1&psc=1&refRID=6059QT810TG9VJKJ4JV1

Agree if heat is an issue and you experience shutdowns this is a great solution. They look nice too. Blend right in with your gear (if you have black gear).

You already have a 5 channel mono tho, right? Use it like I suggested above. If you do that and you're still experiencing shutdowns then I'd be inclined to think something is either wrong with the Denon or you need more clearance to dissipate heat. Do you have it in a cubby right now? How much room on the top and sides?

 

[NINaudio]

Power your LCR and surrounds with the monolith and everything else (rear surrounds and Atmos) from the Denon. Should be just fine that way.

 

[mocwilson]

Agree if heat is an issue and you experience shutdowns this is a great solution. They look nice too. Blend right in with your gear (if you have black gear).

You already have a 5 channel mono tho, right? Use it like I suggested above. If you do that and you're still experiencing shutdowns then I'd be inclined to think something is either wrong with the Denon or you need more clearance to dissipate heat. Do you have it in a cubby right now? How much room on the top and sides?

ya those outlaws look like they might do the trick. ill give it some thought
the Denon has a good 3 inches of clearance above it, i have noticed it does run very hot but had thought it was normal from reading they do run hot. ill see if i can keep it cooler.
Are you suggesting using the 5 channel as a 3 channel with bi amping the left and righy? i had thought of that too but again was unsure if the denon could handle 4 more 4ohm loads.

thanks for all the info guys

 

[Pogre]

ya those outlaws look like they might do the trick. ill give it some thought
the Denon has a good 3 inches of clearance above it, i have noticed it does run very hot but had thought it was normal from reading they do run hot. ill see if i can keep it cooler.
Are you suggesting using the 5 channel as a 3 channel with bi amping the left and righy? i had thought of that too but again was unsure if the denon could handle 4 more 4ohm loads.

thanks for all the info guys

Outlaws? Bi amping?? I meant the fan, not the amps! Lol

Just use the Mono as has been suggested a couple of times now and you shouldn't have any troubles at all. You already have everything you need except a fan. Which I doubt you really need either if you have enough room for your receiver.

 

[ryanosaur]

i had thought of that too but again was unsure if the denon could handle 4 more 4ohm loads.

¿Que?
Unless I missed, what is your gear—the speakers?
When using Amps, the Amp handles the load, not the AVR

 

[mocwilson]

Outlaws? Bi amping?? I meant the fan, not the amps! Lol

Just use the Mono as has been suggested a couple of times now and you shouldn't have any troubles at all. You already have everything you need except a fan. Which I doubt you really need either if you have enough room for your receiver.

ok, yes ill try running the other surrounds of the denon first for sure and see how that goes. thanks again.

 

[ryanosaur]

And for the love of talking monkeys... where did bi-amping come from in this conversation?!
There is very little reason to Bi-Amp Speakers. It does not increase the power they can utilize, and if you have a robust amp like the Monolith or the Outlaws, there is simply no need.
Several Boutique speaker designers I’ve talked to generally agree that all forms of Bi- ing your Speakers is generally pointless. They still install 2 pairs of binding posts because that is what the market requires, but they will say quite readily that you shouldn’t bi amp or bi wire; that there is little to no reward for it.

 

[Pogre]

the Denon has a good 3 inches of clearance above it, i have noticed it does run very hot but had thought it was normal from reading they do run hot. ill see if i can keep it cooler.

How about the sides? And yes, they do run pretty warm and it's normal. I only even talked about heat because you said the Denon has shut down on you tho. If it's not an issue then you're good to go.

No. No, no one said or even hinted anything about bi amping. Where did you get that from? That's something you'll almost never see recommended here!

I said, use the 5 channels on the Mono to power your main 5 speakers. L/C/R and the 2 side surrounds. Let the Denon take care of the rest of the effect speakers. No bi amping! That's a waste of wire and opens up another opportunity for an accidental blown amp.

 

[mocwilson]

ok thanks guy, yes the OCD is settling. lol ill try running things as is and see if i get any shut downs. i guess my other concern was that i would hear a difference between amps [ but prob not right?]. ill try everything as is for now and update if there are changes.

thanks all.

 

[ryanosaur]

FWIW, re cooling:
Usually the manufacturers require ~6-8” all around the AVR for adequate cooling. If it is in a Cubby, this exacerbates cooling.
Depending on your circumstances, I would readily recommend some sort of cooling scenario, but your needs will be dictated by your setup.
If your AVR is getting overly warm, then you need to be able to pull clean air through, and vent hot air away from, your unit.

 

[Pogre]

ok thanks guy, yes the OCD is settling. lol ill try running things as is and see if i get any shut downs. i guess my other concern was that i would hear a difference between amps [ but prob not right?]. ill try everything as is for now and update if there are changes.

thanks all.

Nah, you should not be able to hear any differences, especially with your effect channels. They don't get a lot of critical information and barely even play for a lot of material. The front 3 is what most people focus on for additional amplification since they see the most action. Anything after that is gravy. Fwiw I think you did fine with the 5 channel mono. That's a beast of an amp and I think the 5 channel is where you start really taking advantage of dollars per watt. The 4500 is also a very capable and powerful avr. You done good!

 

[Leemix]

3 inches is not much clearence at all, is it fully open all around the sides and rear?


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