Subwoofer Hookup/Config Help - Yamaha TSR-700 to Klipsch R-12SW

[Los Pollos 2000]

AVR: Yamaha TSR-700
Sub: Klipsch R-12SW
Speakers: Yamaha NS-6490
TT: U-Turn Orbit Custom Grado Black3

Used for music from turntable almost exclusively (periodic streaming)

My vintage receiver died so I grabbed the Yamaha TSR-700 on sale at Costco because I don't think I have the stomach for vintage.
I'm also considering the Denon AVR-S650H but these are not available for a week or more.

Both receivers have the output "Pre-Out Subwoofer 1 and 2"

The Klipsch Manual states: "- Most of today’s surround receivers (and pre-amplifiers) have a line level subwoofer output labeled Subwoofer Pre Out, Sub Out, SW Out, etc. If you have this output, connect one end of a subwoofer cable to it and connect the other end of the cable into the subwoofer line input labeled LEFT/LFE. This connection allows the subwoofer to operate with both music and surround sound movies (refer to your receiver manual)."

Is the Klipsch diagram below what I should do?
The Yamaha manual does not refer to the Pre-Out Subwoofer output as LFE so I'm not certain.
The Yamaha manual indicates this hookup will work for music.

I hooked the subwoofer up like this and ran the YPAO and then set the front speaker to size small.
I played an album using the Phono Straight selection with the subwoofer gain set at the midpoint and the Low-Pass to 160hz (as indicated by Klipsch).

The subwoofer vibrated but only the slightest amount.
Increasing the gain on the subwoofer made no substantial difference.
Switching the phase on the receiver and subwoofer made no substantial difference (this was recommended by the Yamaha).

So I hooked up a TV to the HDMI Out (eARC/ARC) to get to the Menu and Sepup sections.
I set the volume (or level) for the subwoofer from -1db to 2db the 4db then 6db until the sub produced
the range I expected (I need to confirm the precise db levels but this illustrates what I did).

I listened to a few different albums I'm very familiar with and was happy with the results.

I tried playing Spotify via the Yamaha Musiccast app and the subwoofer produced way, WAY too much output.
Spotify is NOT why I have this setup but from time to time someone might want to listen to an album I don't have on vinyl
but this seems harmful unless I go into options and change the receiver's subwoofer volume/level back to where I started.

Does this seem like I have a physical hookup issue or a configuration issue?
Any reason to think the Denon would be an improvement?

My apologies in advance for the way I organized the information above. I'm sure I'm not making this any easier.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sounds like you did it right by running YPAO and setting speakers to small (and choosing an appropriate sound mode to utilize the sub with 2ch content, not familiar with Yamaha's terminology for such).

Not sure what your expectations are, but what do you mean the sub only vibrated a small amount....are you looking at the cone and expecting more excursion? Many do raise the subwoofer level in the avr to taste a couple dB, tho. Vinyl isn't exactly a great source of deep bass generally either, but you might look at eq settings in Spotify, too...the digital source may be a much stronger signal than your tt provides, but should be proportinate whatever the source. A sub properly implemented is more of a subtle addition, especially when eq'd flat like YPAO tries to do.

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

Sounds like you did it right by running YPAO and setting speakers to small (and choosing an appropriate sound mode to utilize the sub with 2ch content, not familiar with Yamaha's terminology for such).

Not sure what your expectations are, but what do you mean the sub only vibrated a small amount....are you looking at the cone and expecting more excursion? Many do raise the subwoofer level in the avr to taste a couple dB, tho. Vinyl isn't exactly a great source of deep bass generally either, but you might look at eq settings in Spotify, too...the digital source may be a much stronger signal than your tt provides, but should be proportinate whatever the source. A sub properly implemented is more of a subtle addition, especially when eq'd flat like YPAO tries to do.

Thank you for your input and the time it took to read through all or most of that mess.

My expectations for bass are what I consider moderate... higher output than many but lower than those guys with car sound systems you can feel the bass from a mile away. The subwoofer output was so low I had to lightly touch the outer edge of the cone to confirm there was any vibration.

I was distressed by what I considered a ridiculous difference in the amount of sub output when going from the Phono to the Musiccast Spotify streaming ... it became distorted and made me fear for my subwoofer's well being.

I don't have high hopes for good high-quality audio from steaming Spotify via Bluetooth... it just made me again question what I might be doing wrong if I need to change the db setting for the subwoofer by such a large degree for the Phono input.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you for your input and the time it took to read through all or most of that mess.

My expectations for bass are what I consider moderate... higher output than many but lower than those guys with car sound systems you can feel the bass from a mile away. The subwoofer output was so low I had to lightly touch the outer edge of the cone to confirm there was any vibration.

I was distressed by what I considered a ridiculous difference in the amount of sub output when going from the Phono to the Musiccast Spotify streaming ... it became distorted and made me fear for my subwoofer's well being.

I don't have high hopes for good high-quality audio from steaming Spotify via Bluetooth... it just made me again question what I might be doing wrong if I need to change the db setting for the subwoofer by such a large degree for the Phono input.

Well the car guys can be very bass heavy to the point of silliness. Touching a sub to see if its on isn't unusual, it's what I do to test. The difference between phono and spotify shouldn't be that different just in bass (is it just in bass, tho or is it louder across the board?.....if it is just a general difference in general volume there's likely an input/source level setting you can adjust). Do check the spotify settings, tho, it may have some eq in place (seems to me it comes that way as a default....been ages since I set mine up).

I stream spotify via wifi, not bluetooth, how are you doing it? Is Musiccast the only way to access the spotify app?

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

I wasn't super clear in my text above.... when I switched from Phono to the Musiccast stream of Spotify... the left and right speakers were slightly louder but it was the subwoofer that increased disproportionately.

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

Well the car guys can be very bass heavy to the point of silliness. Touching a sub to see if its on isn't unusual, it's what I do to test. The difference between phono and spotify shouldn't be that different just in bass (is it just in bass, tho or is it louder across the board?.....if it is just a general difference in general volume there's likely an input/source level setting you can adjust). Do check the spotify settings, tho, it may have some eq in place (seems to me it comes that way as a default....been ages since I set mine up).

I stream spotify via wifi, not bluetooth, how are you doing it? Is Musiccast the only way to access the spotify app?

Now that you mention, you stream via wi-fi, I'll have to check if my iPad is connected via wifi or Bluetooth.
Last night I went home and spent most of my time trying to find an area of the Musiccast app where I can get to the receiver's setup/options. I really didn't plan on having a TV with my turntable setup. In fact the plan was to have a space dedicated to just listening.

It seems like the Yamaha TSR-700 and perhaps the Denon AVR-S650H will require a tv to access setup menus which is perfect for most people buying these receivers. I may need to swap this one out for my 18 year old Yamaha HT receiver which allows all this setup via the remote.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yamaha folded the AV Controller app into the MusicCast app and it is not fully equipped for system adjustments. The TSR-700 and RX-V6A setup can be done on a web page by typing in the Yamaha's network address/setup. If using your iPad on the same network, you can try it and just save the page as a favorite in your safari browser. Spotify requires a separate Smart device for operations on every new receiver and even removed support on older models while some other streaming services can be used with some AVRs' remote controls. The Yamaha TSR-700 and RX-V6A require a Smart device and the MusicCast app to access all streaming services.

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

Now that you mention, you stream via wi-fi, I'll have to check if my iPad is connected via wifi or Bluetooth.
Last night I went home and spent most of my time trying to find an area of the Musiccast app where I can get to the receiver's setup/options. I really didn't plan on having a TV with my turntable setup. In fact the plan was to have a space dedicated to just listening.

It seems like the Yamaha TSR-700 and perhaps the Denon AVR-S650H will require a tv to access setup menus which is perfect for most people buying these receivers. I may need to swap this one out for my 18 year old Yamaha HT receiver which allows all this setup via the remote.

Well the car guys can be very bass heavy to the point of silliness. Touching a sub to see if its on isn't unusual, it's what I do to test. The difference between phono and spotify shouldn't be that different just in bass (is it just in bass, tho or is it louder across the board?.....if it is just a general difference in general volume there's likely an input/source level setting you can adjust). Do check the spotify settings, tho, it may have some eq in place (seems to me it comes that way as a default....been ages since I set mine up).

I stream spotify via wifi, not bluetooth, how are you doing it? Is Musiccast the only way to access the spotify app?

Yamaha folded the AV Controller app into the MusicCast app and it is not fully equipped for system adjustments. The TSR-700 and RX-V6A setup can be done on a web page by typing in the Yamaha's network address/setup. If using your iPad on the same network, you can try it and just save the page as a favorite in your safari browser. Spotify requires a separate Smart device for operations on every new receiver and even removed support on older models while some other streaming services can be used with some AVR's remote control. The Yamaha TSR-700 and RX-V6A require a Smart device and the MusicCast app to access all streaming services.

Nice! I'll try that tonight! This is the part my wife loves the most (blatant sarcasm).

 

[Eppie]

If you're using the low pass filter on the AVR (the subwoofer out connection), then typically you would leave the cross-over setting on the sub set to a high value and then let YPAO on the AVR determine the cross-over frequency. If the AVR rolls off the bass at a frequency that is higher than what the sub is set at, then you get a dip in response between the two. The control on the sub is there in case you are sending a full range signal, but with a modern AVR the room correcting software can take care of that.
Have you tried several different LPs? I have a lot of older recordings that don't move the sub very much compared to movies. Ideally, you want to play the same track from an LP and Spotify so that you are comparing apples to apples.

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

If you're using the low pass filter on the AVR (the subwoofer out connection), then typically you would leave the cross-over setting on the sub set to a high value and then let YPAO on the AVR determine the cross-over frequency. If the AVR rolls off the bass at a frequency that is higher than what the sub is set at, then you get a dip in response between the two. The control on the sub is there in case you are sending a full range signal, but with a modern AVR the room correcting software can take care of that.
Have you tried several different LPs? I have a lot of older recordings that don't move the sub very much compared to movies. Ideally, you want to play the same track from an LP and Spotify so that you are comparing apples to apples.

Thanks, good idea, I'll try a "same song comparison" tonight. Streaming music had no part in my motivation to build this setup but others in my household are not as focused on vinyl and my collection will build slowly so a periodic album streamed from one service or another is likely.

At this point, I have listened to about five LPs that I'm very familiar with. 3 are brand new 180gr LPs so likely fairly recent pressings. 2 are old school, out of my oldest brother's collection, pressings likely mid to late 70s.
Once I cranked up the db setting for the subwoofer I found a range that was very pleasing to my ear because I could enjoy what I perceive as the full range with the volume fairly low, moderate or high.

Sorry I forgot to note what db setting I ended up with, last night I spent all my time trying to get at setup/options on the iPad app.

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thing to help with bass at low volume would be YPAO Volume (somewhat like an old school loudness contour, but varies with volume).

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

Yamaha folded the AV Controller app into the MusicCast app and it is not fully equipped for system adjustments. The TSR-700 and RX-V6A setup can be done on a web page by typing in the Yamaha's network address/setup. If using your iPad on the same network, you can try it and just save the page as a favorite in your safari browser. Spotify requires a separate Smart device for operations on every new receiver and even removed support on older models while some other streaming services can be used with some AVRs' remote controls. The Yamaha TSR-700 and RX-V6A require a Smart device and the MusicCast app to access all streaming services.

I tried typing in my TSR-700's IP address and was able to get to a menu. After trying all the available menus I could not find a menu where I could adjust the db levels on the sub and speakers or the EQ.
Have you been able to do this with the same receiver?

 

[Trebdp83]

No, that menu will not help you. You need to type in your address like so, xxx.xxx.xx.xxx/setup. Without typing in /setup after the numbers, you will not get the web setup. If typed in correctly, you should see the TSR-700 - Web Setup. Here are pics of mine.

 

[Los Pollos 2000]

No, that menu will not help you. You need to type in your address like so, xxx.xxx.xx.xxx/setup. Without typing in /setup after the numbers, you will not get the web setup. If typed in correctly, you should see the TSR-700 - Web Setup. Here are pics of mine.


View attachment 44331View attachment 44332View attachment 44333View attachment 44336View attachment 44337

Thank you for your patience! I went home and forgot the "/setup" part.
Back to the drawing board tonight. I greatly appreciate everyone's help!

 

[Gatto018]

Thank you for your input and the time it took to read through all or most of that mess.

My expectations for bass are what I consider moderate... higher output than many but lower than those guys with car sound systems you can feel the bass from a mile away. The subwoofer output was so low I had to lightly touch the outer edge of the cone to confirm there was any vibration.

I was distressed by what I considered a ridiculous difference in the amount of sub output when going from the Phono to the Musiccast Spotify streaming ... it became distorted and made me fear for my subwoofer's well being.

I don't have high hopes for good high-quality audio from steaming Spotify via Bluetooth... it just made me again question what I might be doing wrong if I need to change the db setting for the subwoofer by such a large degree for the Phono input.

If you follow the instructions for subwoofer set up i.e: set vol at 50%, crossover, etc. and run YPAO, then you can adjust subwoofer output separately for each input by setting each input and adjusting subwoofer via: OPTIONS > Volume Trim. You can also adjust inputs volume at the same time. There are separate adjustments for Input Trim and Subwoofer Trim under OPTIONS> Volume Trim
Also: I did not have to Musicast at all for setup.