Upgrading Entry Gear

[Garplo]

Hi everyone. Just getting started with 2 channel audio and trying to use some components I have to move forward (speakers). Admittedly purchased more of a Home Theater setup for the family 10 years or so ago and always intended to work towards an update to 2 channel audio in the future. Will admit that I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest from manufactures so I am continuing research on other equipment.
Currently have Paradigm Studio 100 v5 for floor standing speakers
CC-590 v5 center and 4 Paradigm Surround 1Using a Rotel RSX-1562 to run all of this (again, gave me flexibility with the family) Been a great amp!!!
I have a 15 x 28 room this is house in. Definitely will need room correction.I listen to most anything.... Black Sabbath to Nat King Cole.....Probably a little louder with the first and softer with the ladder.
I'm fairly certain what ever I choose will be a pretty significant upgrade no matter the brand........2 channel or over all.
Currently looking at options between Anthem STR and McIntosh MAC7200. I have auditioned the MAC7200 with my speakers and was very happy with the sound. Warm, clear and very pronounced... The McIntosh didn't seem to break a sweat at higher volumes on louder music and was very personal with Leonard Cohen. I do like the MAC7200, quality build, resale if one ever needed to sell....etc.
The Anthem STR Amp and Pre-Amp however seems like a probable choice since I currently use Paradigm speakers. I also wonder if the 400w would be a better pairing than the 200w MAC7200. I have not been able to listen to the Anthem STR Amp yet, but I have listened to the STR Integrated amp with newer Paradigm speakers at my local dealer.I don't feel this is a fair comparison though and am trying to get my local dealer to acquire the STR Amp and Pre-Amp so I can haul my speakers down there to listen.
Anthem is more power and I need to hear it before deciding, I know. McIntosh sounds great and seems very solid and reliable. I'm still researching other options/brands but so far thought I would ask for input on these two for now.
Total disclosure.....I may upgrade the home theater side as well at the same time ( gotta keep the wife happy) and considering Anthem MCA 525 for Surrounds/Center, STR Amp & STR Pre-amp for 2 channel and the Anthem AVM 70Or
All McIntosh with MAC7200 for 2 channel, MX100 AVR and MI347 7ch amp for surround.
Going with either build is about the same in price but seems like Anthems upper end vs McIntosh entry or mid level? Definitely open to other ideas/thoughts. Mix n Match?

 

[Movie2099]

Hi everyone. Just getting started with 2 channel audio and trying to use some components I have to move forward (speakers). Admittedly purchased more of a Home Theater setup for the family 10 years or so ago and always intended to work towards an update to 2 channel audio in the future. Will admit that I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest from manufactures so I am continuing research on other equipment.
Currently have Paradigm Studio 100 v5 for floor standing speakers
CC-590 v5 center and 4 Paradigm Surround 1Using a Rotel RSX-1562 to run all of this (again, gave me flexibility with the family) Been a great amp!!!
I have a 15 x 28 room this is house in. Definitely will need room correction.I listen to most anything.... Black Sabbath to Nat King Cole.....Probably a little louder with the first and softer with the ladder.
I'm fairly certain what ever I choose will be a pretty significant upgrade no matter the brand........2 channel or over all.
Currently looking at options between Anthem STR and McIntosh MAC7200. I have auditioned the MAC7200 with my speakers and was very happy with the sound. Warm, clear and very pronounced... The McIntosh didn't seem to break a sweat at higher volumes on louder music and was very personal with Leonard Cohen. I do like the MAC7200, quality build, resale if one ever needed to sell....etc.
The Anthem STR Amp and Pre-Amp however seems like a probable choice since I currently use Paradigm speakers. I also wonder if the 400w would be a better pairing than the 200w MAC7200. I have not been able to listen to the Anthem STR Amp yet, but I have listened to the STR Integrated amp with newer Paradigm speakers at my local dealer.I don't feel this is a fair comparison though and am trying to get my local dealer to acquire the STR Amp and Pre-Amp so I can haul my speakers down there to listen.
Anthem is more power and I need to hear it before deciding, I know. McIntosh sounds great and seems very solid and reliable. I'm still researching other options/brands but so far thought I would ask for input on these two for now.
Total disclosure.....I may upgrade the home theater side as well at the same time ( gotta keep the wife happy) and considering Anthem MCA 525 for Surrounds/Center, STR Amp & STR Pre-amp for 2 channel and the Anthem AVM 70Or
All McIntosh with MAC7200 for 2 channel, MX100 AVR and MI347 7ch amp for surround.
Going with either build is about the same in price but seems like Anthems upper end vs McIntosh entry or mid level? Definitely open to other ideas/thoughts. Mix n Match?

Can't go wrong with either. Anthem amps aren't "sexy" compared to McIntosh amps. Since price isn't the issue, I would say it comes down to looks. Both will provide enough juice for your speakers. IF it was just for a theater application, I would go Anthem, if it was just for a 2-channel setup I would go McIntosh.

 

[nathan_h]

Hi everyone. Just getting started with 2 channel audio and trying to use some components I have to move forward (speakers). Admittedly purchased more of a Home Theater setup for the family 10 years or so ago and always intended to work towards an update to 2 channel audio in the future. Will admit that I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest from manufactures so I am continuing research on other equipment.
Currently have Paradigm Studio 100 v5 for floor standing speakers
CC-590 v5 center and 4 Paradigm Surround 1Using a Rotel RSX-1562 to run all of this (again, gave me flexibility with the family) Been a great amp!!!
I have a 15 x 28 room this is house in. Definitely will need room correction.I listen to most anything.... Black Sabbath to Nat King Cole.....Probably a little louder with the first and softer with the ladder.
I'm fairly certain what ever I choose will be a pretty significant upgrade no matter the brand........2 channel or over all.
Currently looking at options between Anthem STR and McIntosh MAC7200. I have auditioned the MAC7200 with my speakers and was very happy with the sound. Warm, clear and very pronounced... The McIntosh didn't seem to break a sweat at higher volumes on louder music and was very personal with Leonard Cohen. I do like the MAC7200, quality build, resale if one ever needed to sell....etc.
The Anthem STR Amp and Pre-Amp however seems like a probable choice since I currently use Paradigm speakers. I also wonder if the 400w would be a better pairing than the 200w MAC7200. I have not been able to listen to the Anthem STR Amp yet, but I have listened to the STR Integrated amp with newer Paradigm speakers at my local dealer.I don't feel this is a fair comparison though and am trying to get my local dealer to acquire the STR Amp and Pre-Amp so I can haul my speakers down there to listen.
Anthem is more power and I need to hear it before deciding, I know. McIntosh sounds great and seems very solid and reliable. I'm still researching other options/brands but so far thought I would ask for input on these two for now.
Total disclosure.....I may upgrade the home theater side as well at the same time ( gotta keep the wife happy) and considering Anthem MCA 525 for Surrounds/Center, STR Amp & STR Pre-amp for 2 channel and the Anthem AVM 70Or
All McIntosh with MAC7200 for 2 channel, MX100 AVR and MI347 7ch amp for surround.
Going with either build is about the same in price but seems like Anthems upper end vs McIntosh entry or mid level? Definitely open to other ideas/thoughts. Mix n Match?

That ROTEL is a beast. I think it is unlikely you'd hear anything other than the placebo effect if you add more power to your system.

Room correction is a whole different topic and I think that Anthem Room Correction is the best automated system I have heard. It cannot make up for a bad room (ie, lack of room treatments), poor setup (ie, not using bass management and not placing subwoofers in the right locations and integrating them correctly) but once you have a good room and setup, the ARC system can do the final steps of really improving things.

In terms of shear quality for the dollar, Anthem amplification is a better value than McInstosh, but the Monoprice amps based on and built by ATI's contract manufacturers, offer top level measurement, performance, and value.

But adding an amp is the least useful thing you can do. If you aren’t interested in room treatments and subwoofer integration, I would consider a new AVR with excellent room correction. You don’t need more watts. You can upgrade your sound in many far more impactful ways.

 

[Pogre]

I wouldn't expect much from different amplification, tho placebo/expectation bias can make you think otherwise. I would look at speakers long before amps if sound quality is the goal. You can get some pretty phenomenal speakers with Mac money, and actually hear the difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah the change in amplification seems just a lateral move unless you just want to fondle and gaze at some big 2ch integrated amp. I'd shop for better speakers in terms of improving sound quality....

ps I was thinking that Rotel was a 200wpc amp for some reason. So just depends what a couple dB headroom/spl may do for you....or not.

 

[Eppie]

I wouldn't expect much from different amplification, tho placebo/expectation bias can make you think otherwise. I would look at speakers long before amps if sound quality is the goal. You can get some pretty phenomenal speakers with Mac money, and actually hear the difference.

The Studio 100 v5 is already a pretty good speaker. Too big for my room so I am running the Studio 20 v5 with the CC590 centre. I was attracted to the way they reproduce vocals and make a nice compromise when using the same speakers for HT and music. Compromise may be harsh; they sound pretty good on their own. I agree that amplification alone will have a relatively small impact compared to other things like speaker model, room acoustics and source material unless he's pushing the system really hard, but since we're talking surround systems you have to take signal processing and DACs into account. Maybe the Anthem has a more pleasant sounding DAC and better room correction? (I don't see room correction listed for the Rotel.) In that price range I would certainly like to have the option to bring the speakers in and demo the equipment first. Also look at your sources. Planning to listen to LPs, CDs or digital files? A high end streamer may do more for music content depending upon what you're using now.

 

[Pogre]

The Studio 100 v5 is already a pretty good speaker. Too big for my room so I am running the Studio 20 v5 with the CC590 centre. I was attracted to the way they reproduce vocals and make a nice compromise when using the same speakers for HT and music. Compromise may be harsh; they sound pretty good on their own. I agree that amplification alone will have a relatively small impact compared to other things like speaker model, room acoustics and source material unless he's pushing the system really hard, but since we're talking surround systems you have to take signal processing and DACs into account. Maybe the Anthem has a more pleasant sounding DAC and better room correction? (I don't see room correction listed for the Rotel.) In that price range I would certainly like to have the option to bring the speakers in and demo the equipment first. Also look at your sources. Planning to listen to LPs, CDs or digital files? A high end streamer may do more for music content depending upon what you're using now.

I'm sure those speakers are pretty nice. Amplification alone will likely have less than a relative impact tho in my opinion, and the same goes for DAC. It's a very mature technology and most of the competent manufacturers are implementing them nowadays so that they're all pretty much equally transparent in any audible way. Room correction for sure will have an impact. I've heard Anthems rc is very good, yes. I've also heard Audyssey XT32 (Denon/Marantz) is very good as well. It's what I'm using and have measured significant improvement, particularly with my bass fr.

Back to speakers, Mac money will get you pretty much pick of the litter over at Salk Sound, and as good as op's Paradigms are, I'll bet they can be bested and have far more impact than a receiver or amp upgrade.

Salk Sound

www.salksound.com

 

[Garplo]

Oh I can hear the wife now....."NEW Speakers!?".... I am open to a speaker upgrade, but thought it would be later. I do like the sound of the current speakers, but I am sure there are better performing out there. I have always tried to keep the volume level "down" with my current Rotel since its rated at 100w per channel. I thought you wanted ample power delivered to speakers when listening at higher levels... Otherwise you can damage speakers if the amp can not deliver power them to vocalize sound correctly at high volume (clipping)? I'm probably saying that all wrong....!
Paradigm states my speakers are rated for 250w and should match them with a 50w to 350w amp...... Wouldn't a 50w amp struggle to drive the speaker in this scenario at higher volumes than a 350w amp?
I always thought I could come back and upgrade to a larger 2 channel amp to drive them more appropriately then the 100w Rotel.

 

[Pogre]

At 89 dB efficiency your speakers don't require a ton of power to get plenty loud. For instance, if you sit 10 feet from your speakers you can hit 92 dB at your seat with only 10 watts. That's very loud. In fact it's unsafe to listen at that level for more than a few hours before doing permanent damage. Any power left on reserve after that is just plain unused, whether you have 75 watts or 500 watts. It doesn't add anything to performance. How far do you sit from your speakers, anyway? Just curious.

Check out this spl calculator. It's not going to be dead on accurate for your room and speakers but will give you an idea of power requirements. Most people rarely use more than a couple of watts.

Peak SPL Calculator

Power requirements do go up exponentially as you turn up the dial, doubling for every 3 dB gained, but 89 dB efficiency is really good right out of the gates.

 

[Garplo]

Thanks for the Calculator..... That explains a lot!!!! So it appears I'm am guilty of expecting my speakers to produce more 'volume' and better sound with purchasing a more powerful amp.

So I have been 'babying' my speakers for no reason!!?? I set my Rotel (in the menu) to not allow itself to go over "80" for volume, thinking it was a safeguard to not damage the speakers or amp by under powering..... I'm wrong?
Also thought this would be good because of kids at home......

Don't get me wrong, when I turn it up to 70 or what I would say is "3/4' volume its loud, as the wife constantly reminds me......

My room is an open living room/kitchen combination. I can sit as close as 6 ft from the speakers or the wife sits on the couch at 13 ft. We often have company that will sit at the bar or stand in the kitchen which can be as far as 20 to 25 ft from the speakers. Would say the wife's spot is the 'sweet spot' for the room which is where the couch is located. But I know I need to do some room correction, or I believe I do.

 

[Garplo]

Can't go wrong with either. Anthem amps aren't "sexy" compared to McIntosh amps. Since price isn't the issue, I would say it comes down to looks. Both will provide enough juice for your speakers. IF it was just for a theater application, I would go Anthem, if it was just for a 2-channel setup I would go McIntosh.

The wife is feeling the same way.... I feel like I have a billion things to learn before I spend the money.....

 

[lovinthehd]

Still, hard to know what spl needs are so far and what, if anything, a more powerful amp might provide. You can always allow for higher peaks than that calculator, too, but what does "70" even mean on your volume scale? Is it calibrated to a standard of some sort? Is it a linear volume dial or dB based? Might a little extra juice being available give a bit more oomph if you turn it up more? Maybe, you could already be close to the limits of your speakers to an extent (not in terms of max power before damage, but just simply sounding good, not going into significant compression, distortion, etc). Are you running each speaker full range or are subs involved or ?

 

[flyboylr45]

I went from all Mac gear (MC452, C2500, MEN220) to an Anthem STR preamp with an ATI AT544NC. The Macs sound awesome and are sexy. Their resale value is second to none. While I haven't played too much with the preamp as I'm waiting for the speakers (RBH SVTR, replacing B&W802D2), the ARC is every bit as good as the RoomPerfect in the Mac. The Anthem has worked flawless. The Mac had a few digital glitches with the screen and little things here and there. You can't go wrong with either.

In your shoes, I'd upgrade the speakers.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Garplo]

Still, hard to know what spl needs are so far and what, if anything, a more powerful amp might provide. You can always allow for higher peaks than that calculator, too, but what does "70" even mean on your volume scale? Is it calibrated to a standard of some sort? Is it a linear volume dial or dB based? Might a little extra juice being available give a bit more oomph if you turn it up more? Maybe, you could already be close to the limits of your speakers to an extent (not in terms of max power before damage, but just simply sounding good, not going into significant compression, distortion, etc). Are you running each speaker full range or are subs involved or ?

On my Rotel, the volume goes from 0 to 100, zero being no volume and 100 being max volume.. I am limiting it to a max of 80. My old Technics stereo system had the volume start at -78db (no volume) to 0db (max volume).
I never understood what the reason is that manufacturers do this... 1 to 10 is pretty straight forward to me....
Forgive me though, I may just not know.
I will remove the "80" volume cap for the Rotel and see if I'm not causing my own 'loudness' issues.
I can switch the Rotel into '2 channel' for stereo listening....music..etc. But I also use the system for home theater as well, as the Rotel is integrated for home theater.
Most all of my input is from my computer via HDMI to the Rotel. Movies, music.... etc.
Part of my thought for upgrading the system was to have separate components vs integrated all in one. My thought was separate components will perform their functions better than integrated components, in general.
This also makes updating/upgrading in the future easier as I would be able to upgrade just an individual component instead of the whole integrated unit.

 

[nathan_h]

That makes intuitive sense but in the real world due to economies of scale, you’ll spend less money and get better performance per dollar if you get all in one units at this point.

Note that posting a photo of your setup may help explain things.

And using a free spl meter app on your phone to see what volume you are playing music at would help determine whether you are close to maxing things out (very unlikely).

 

[lovinthehd]

On my Rotel, the volume goes from 0 to 100, zero being no volume and 100 being max volume.. I am limiting it to a max of 80. My old Technics stereo system had the volume start at -78db (no volume) to 0db (max volume).
I never understood what the reason is that manufacturers do this... 1 to 10 is pretty straight forward to me....
Forgive me though, I may just not know.
I will remove the "80" volume cap for the Rotel and see if I'm not causing my own 'loudness' issues.
I can switch the Rotel into '2 channel' for stereo listening....music..etc. But I also use the system for home theater as well, as the Rotel is integrated for home theater.
Most all of my input is from my computer via HDMI to the Rotel. Movies, music.... etc.
Part of my thought for upgrading the system was to have separate components vs integrated all in one. My thought was separate components will perform their functions better than integrated components, in general.
This also makes updating/upgrading in the future easier as I would be able to upgrade just an individual component instead of the whole integrated unit.

Let's start with the volume dial. It does appear to be dB based per your manual, so you double power with each 3dB change on the dial so "percentage" means little using the numbers on the dial. 80 I assume is close to thx reference level (82 on many units also using what seems to be an absolute volume scale as opposed to a reference scale but didn't spot that tie-in with the scale and the built-in test tone/setup in your manual but didn't spend a lot of time looking either).

What about subs?

 

[Garplo]

Let's start with the volume dial. It does appear to be dB based per your manual, so you double power with each 3dB change on the dial so "percentage" means little using the numbers on the dial. 80 I assume is close to thx reference level (82 on many units also using what seems to be an absolute volume scale as opposed to a reference scale but didn't spot that tie-in with the scale and the built-in test tone/setup in your manual but didn't spend a lot of time looking either).

What about subs?

I do have a sub for the home theater. (again) Paradigm Ultracube 12

 

[lovinthehd]

I do have a sub for the home theater. (again) Paradigm Ultracube 12

Kinda small sub for that space but could work okay. Better subwoofage could help more than different amps I'd think.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Kinda small sub for that space but could work okay. Better subwoofage could help more than different amps I'd think.

Completely agree. It might work ok, but I can quickly think of a few that would easily be better. Definitely more improvement than electronics.

 

[Kingnoob]

Hi everyone. Just getting started with 2 channel audio and trying to use some components I have to move forward (speakers). Admittedly purchased more of a Home Theater setup for the family 10 years or so ago and always intended to work towards an update to 2 channel audio in the future. Will admit that I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest from manufactures so I am continuing research on other equipment.
Currently have Paradigm Studio 100 v5 for floor standing speakers
CC-590 v5 center and 4 Paradigm Surround 1Using a Rotel RSX-1562 to run all of this (again, gave me flexibility with the family) Been a great amp!!!
I have a 15 x 28 room this is house in. Definitely will need room correction.I listen to most anything.... Black Sabbath to Nat King Cole.....Probably a little louder with the first and softer with the ladder.
I'm fairly certain what ever I choose will be a pretty significant upgrade no matter the brand........2 channel or over all.
Currently looking at options between Anthem STR and McIntosh MAC7200. I have auditioned the MAC7200 with my speakers and was very happy with the sound. Warm, clear and very pronounced... The McIntosh didn't seem to break a sweat at higher volumes on louder music and was very personal with Leonard Cohen. I do like the MAC7200, quality build, resale if one ever needed to sell....etc.
The Anthem STR Amp and Pre-Amp however seems like a probable choice since I currently use Paradigm speakers. I also wonder if the 400w would be a better pairing than the 200w MAC7200. I have not been able to listen to the Anthem STR Amp yet, but I have listened to the STR Integrated amp with newer Paradigm speakers at my local dealer.I don't feel this is a fair comparison though and am trying to get my local dealer to acquire the STR Amp and Pre-Amp so I can haul my speakers down there to listen.
Anthem is more power and I need to hear it before deciding, I know. McIntosh sounds great and seems very solid and reliable. I'm still researching other options/brands but so far thought I would ask for input on these two for now.
Total disclosure.....I may upgrade the home theater side as well at the same time ( gotta keep the wife happy) and considering Anthem MCA 525 for Surrounds/Center, STR Amp & STR Pre-amp for 2 channel and the Anthem AVM 70Or
All McIntosh with MAC7200 for 2 channel, MX100 AVR and MI347 7ch amp for surround.
Going with either build is about the same in price but seems like Anthems upper end vs McIntosh entry or mid level? Definitely open to other ideas/thoughts. Mix n Match?

You could spend a lot more
Money and not get anything better that system is amazing ..

I’d stick to getting more subwoofers, that’s a high end system .. mine is entry level and garbage compared to what you have ..
I’ll probably never be able to to afford a rotel amp and paradigm or top of the line.
You got like a 10-15grand or higher system wow

Rotel RSX-1562 A/V Receiver

Audio Performance Video Performance Features

www.soundandvision.com

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