Cymbals on Klipsch rp 8000f sound "tizzy"

[Nvsion03]

Ok, i have a question about new speakers klipsch rp8000f that i had purchased. They are connected to an Onkyo Txnr 838 avr. I have been "tuning" for days to no avail; rerunning accu eq, bass treble, crossover, loudness, every setting i can think of to remove an audible "shhhh" sound to cymbals while playing music or a concert dvd (zz top, rock, etc). My old bookshelf speakers (cerwin vega) were limited so i didnt notice this prior to changing tbe speakers. Does anyone have any suggestions,? (Movies, tv, all sound fine, music is the issue)

 

[highfigh]

Ok, i have a question about new speakers klipsch rp8000f that i had purchased. They are connected to an Onkyo Txnr 838 avr. I have been "tuning" for days to no avail; rerunning accu eq, bass treble, crossover, loudness, every setting i can think of to remove an audible "shhhh" sound to cymbals while playing music or a concert dvd (zz top, rock, etc). My old bookshelf speakers (cerwin vega) were limited so i didnt notice this prior to changing tbe speakers. Does anyone have any suggestions,? (Movies, tv, all sound fine, music is the issue)

It's hard to know if it's the speakers or the recordings if you don't indicate what you're listening to. Cymbals aren't the most pleasant-sounding instruments, to be honest. In recordings, they have been tweezed and tweaked electronically and through mic/preamp/mixer choices to sound a certain way and that's what people are conditioned to, but it may just be a case of "I don't like it because it's new". If you find that your ears become 'tired', I would talk to the seller about exchanging them for something that fits your ears better. Speakers sound different from brand to brand, so you may need to keep shopping.

 

[nathan_h]

I had a pair of klipsch that I enjoyed a lot. But in some rooms, when listening on axis (speakers pointed at me) it could sound a little bright or shrill and emphasize the high treble i ways I didn't like.

Strangely, their directional nature made the sound best in an untreated living room, pointed straight ahead (not at me). They sounded bad in a treated room (acoustic panels) and when pointed at me.

So it may be that making them point straight ahead (versus at you, if that is how you have them) might help.

Also, ACCUEQ can make the treble sound strange in some rooms, so trying the speakers without ACCUEQ engaged may help you get to the bottom of it.

I agree with highfigh that at the end of the day, no speaker sounds great to everyone in every room and sometimes the best solution after trying the easy troubleshooting steps is to exchange for a different speaker.

Random guess: A KEF speaker at a similar price point is likely to have a much different, gentler but accurate treble response, if you want to hear a different product that may match better with your ears and room.

 

[Nvsion03]

Thank you for the comments, i love the speakers for just about everything except for music, although i will say my peter gabriel so cd sounds awesome. I am wobdering if it has something to do with onkyos dac for some sources.

 

[ryanosaur]

How old is your AVR? I ask mostly out of curiosity. While older gear could be improved upon with an upgrade, it’s not likely that it will be so significant a change. Noticeable, but not significant.
What are the sources for your music?
You mentioned CD... anything else?

 

[nathan_h]

Thank you for the comments, i love the speakers for just about everything except for music, although i will say my peter gabriel so cd sounds awesome. I am wobdering if it has something to do with onkyos dac for some sources.

I seriously doubt it is an issue with the DACs. Yes, there can be slight variations between DACs but they are so subtle that all but the most critical and well tuned ears would have trouble hearing the variation and it would seldom sound like the big difference you are describing.

It could DEFINITELY be ACCUEQ. I would definitely turn that off and see if it helps with this issue. I had a friend with ACCUEQ in an untreated room and it did way more harm than good to his audio. And I say this as someone that general loves and uses room EQ for everything (movies, music, TV shows, heck I even pipe my turntable through a Anthem Room Correction system!) so it is not that I think EQ in general is bad.

It's just that based on hearing ACCUEQ I believe Onkyo rolled out a very poor system (and they know it too and are going with something new on their better units going forward).

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you for the comments, i love the speakers for just about everything except for music, although i will say my peter gabriel so cd sounds awesome. I am wobdering if it has something to do with onkyos dac for some sources.

The So album sounds good on a variety of media, its a good recording. Doubt the dac has anything to do with it...

 

[KEW]

I know it is a little weird, but try pointing both speakers so they intersect (on axis lines intersect) about 3 feet in front of where your head sits in the listening position.
If it is just you listening, you can toe them out so they intersect about 8' behind you, but if you have someone sitting to your left and right, the 3' in front of you option works better for the people to your side.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, i have a question about new speakers klipsch rp8000f that i had purchased. They are connected to an Onkyo Txnr 838 avr. I have been "tuning" for days to no avail; rerunning accu eq, bass treble, crossover, loudness, every setting i can think of to remove an audible "shhhh" sound to cymbals while playing music or a concert dvd (zz top, rock, etc). My old bookshelf speakers (cerwin vega) were limited so i didnt notice this prior to changing tbe speakers. Does anyone have any suggestions,? (Movies, tv, all sound fine, music is the issue)

I know the feeling. Sibilance in speakers is a really common problem. Like you, it is one that just drives me nuts. It does not bother some, in fact I think some like the added sizzle. I abhor it. Unfortunately it takes so little to cause it. It is more prevalent in horn loaded HF units. The problem occurs in the 4 to 6 KHz pass band especially.
It takes the most minimal of problems in that pass band to cause it.

Now Shady has measured those speakers, and in the main they have neutral response. Unfortunately they are a little recessed in the 1.5 to 2.5 K pass band. However they have a slight excess energy in the pass band centered on 4KHz. That is all it takes to cause your problem. In my speaker designs I have frequently beavered mightily to rid speakers of this problem, as it is a fault I can't abide. I have always designed my own speakers, and I have to say, I have heard very few commercial designs I could truly live with.

I would suggest that you disable any auto Eq. They are likely to exacerbate this problem, and lots of others as well. What I would do is pull the band down 2 db centered on 4 KHz. If that does not make the speakers acceptable to you, then unfortunately you have may bought the wrong speakers for you.

 

[Nvsion03]

How old is your AVR? I ask mostly out of curiosity. While older gear could be improved upon with an upgrade, it’s not likely that it will be so significant a change. Noticeable, but not significant.
What are the sources for your music?
You mentioned CD... anything else?

I listen to just about everything, mp3, vinyl, dvd concerts. The zz top live in texas dvd ( which is a fairly recent recording) has the cymbals driving me crazy! Vinyl seems to be the best sounding.

 

[Nvsion03]

I listen to just about everything, mp3, vinyl, dvd concerts. The zz top live in texas dvd ( which is a fairly recent recording) has the cymbals driving me crazy! Vinyl seems to be the best sounding.

Oh, and my onkyo txnr 838 is around 5 years old, it replaced my old fantastic jvc avr which i feel had a much better sound. Unfortunately a lightning strike ended its run.

 

[Nvsion03]

I know it is a little weird, but try pointing both speakers so they intersect (on axis lines intersect) about 3 feet in front of where your head sits in the listening position.
If it is just you listening, you can toe them out so they intersect about 8' behind you, but if you have someone sitting to your left and right, the 3' in front of you option works better for the people to your side.

Hmmm...i did have them intersecting in front and they sounded worse: i have them currently straight on but directed to the sides of my listening position. They sound better there.

 

[highfigh]

Thank you for the comments, i love the speakers for just about everything except for music, although i will say my peter gabriel so cd sounds awesome. I am wobdering if it has something to do with onkyos dac for some sources.

Never forget- bad quality recordings are more common than great ones.

If you want to find out whether the DAC is causing it, use the analog output from your DVD or BD player.

 

[j_garcia]

I mean, we all know that Klipsch in general would be considered "bright". Measurement can't entirely tell you how a speaker sounds. Klipsch we expect to be neutral, which in reality may come across as bright, where other speakers may have slightly softer highs and may be a bit more pleasing to some. I tend to prefer somewhat softer highs. Vinyl can also be a bit softer, which may be why that format sounds better on these particular speakers.

Another factor can be the environment. Do you have hardwood or tile floors? Nothing on the walls? A lot of windows? ALL of those can make your presentation sound brighter because the room is more "live" with more reflections.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I seriously doubt it is an issue with the DACs. Yes, there can be slight variations between DACs but they are so subtle that all but the most critical and well tuned ears would have trouble hearing the variation and it would seldom sound like the big difference you are describing.

It could DEFINITELY be ACCUEQ. I would definitely turn that off and see if it helps with this issue. I had a friend with ACCUEQ in an untreated room and it did way more harm than good to his audio. And I say this as someone that general loves and uses room EQ for everything (movies, music, TV shows, heck I even pipe my turntable through a Anthem Room Correction system!) so it is not that I think EQ in general is bad.

It's just that based on hearing ACCUEQ I believe Onkyo rolled out a very poor system (and they know it too and are going with something new on their better units going forward).

Iirc, early versions of accueq did not eq the mains, only the rest. Did they change that? If they did, it could easily be at fault. Probably a combination of bad recording, and new speaker to ear break in. Problem is once you hear it, ya can’t unhear it.

I wonder if it would be worth trying to turn down the treble. My 808 had a built in EQ if you wanted to bypass audyssey, as well as bass and treble controls.
I think turning off accueq(if it even does anything) and manually pulling back the treble would be worth a try.

 

[Nvsion03]

How old is your AVR? I ask mostly out of curiosity. While older gear could be improved upon with an upgrade, it’s not likely that it will be so significant a change. Noticeable, but not significant.
What are the sources for your music?
You mentioned CD... anything else?

The 838 is 5 years old. The dvd concert videos are where the cymbals sound very poor. Zz top live, Aerosmith, etc

 

[Nvsion03]

The 838 is 5 years old. The dvd concert videos are where the cymbals sound very poor. Zz top live, Aerosmith, etc

Vinyl sounds good, mp3s again sound quality of treble is suspect maybe just the nature of 128kbps mp3s