Dynamic Volume vs Dynamic Compression

[TechToys2]

I was looking at my receiver manual and there is a discussion of Loudness Management and Dynamic Compression. I wondered if there is some difference between that and Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

 

[ryanosaur]

Generally speaking, compression in audio is not ideal. When using the Denon and Marantz family of products, some suggest turning Dynamic EQ off, though this is somewhat of a red herring as I've seen many also reference its necessity in the D&M ecosystem. Dynamic Volume should always be turned off, in my book, and I think 99% of others would agree.
I am not familiar with the Dynamic Compression directly, yet it seems on a brief study that it minimizes program dynamic range. So.... I would argue this is bad and should not be engaged in any way.
Usually our goal is to reproduce the recorded event as faithfully as possible. Altering the way a mix was done would be breaking with that.
You should listen to a movie scene that has a wide dynamic range in it... while engaging and disengaging this setting. You may need to do this repeatedly and carefully listen back and forth for a while before you hear the difference.
Regardless, as I stated at first, my instinct is to leave this off.

 

[TechToys2]

Generally speaking, compression in audio is not ideal. When using the Denon and Marantz family of products, some suggest turning Dynamic EQ off, though this is somewhat of a red herring as I've seen many also reference its necessity in the D&M ecosystem. Dynamic Volume should always be turned off, in my book, and I think 99% of others would agree.
I am not familiar with the Dynamic Compression directly, yet it seems on a brief study that it minimizes program dynamic range. So.... I would argue this is bad and should not be engaged in any way.
Usually our goal is to reproduce the recorded event as faithfully as possible. Altering the way a mix was done would be breaking with that.
You should listen to a movie scene that has a wide dynamic range in it... while engaging and disengaging this setting. You may need to do this repeatedly and carefully listen back and forth for a while before you hear the difference.
Regardless, as I stated at first, my instinct is to leave this off.

Thanks. I actually didn't even realize there was a Dynamic Compression option until I came across it in the manual. It seemed odd to me as I thought that was essentially what Dynamic Volume did and I couldn't understand why they would have both. And I just checked and it seems like you can set both of them on at the same time - although I don't know why anyone would.

I haven't played with it yet to see what it does differently, if anything.

 

[lovinthehd]

Dynamic Volume is a dynamic compression routine. Dynamic EQ is like old school loudness contour, uses the Fletcher-Munson type hearing curves to shape it for a more natural sound, particularly below reference level (where it zeros out).

ps usual use for dynamic volume is to keep overall levels somewhat even keel, like for late night listening.

 

[TechToys2]

Dynamic Volume is a dynamic compression routine. Dynamic EQ is like old school loudness contour, uses the Fletcher-Munson type hearing curves to shape it for a more natural sound, particularly below reference level (where it zeros out).

ps usual use for dynamic volume is to keep overall levels somewhat even keel, like for late night listening.

Thank you. I understand that concept generally. What I don't understand is why there is a Dynamic Volume option (which is essentially compression as I understand it) and there is a separate option for Dynamic Compression that seems to be able to be applied together with Dynamic Volume or separately.

The former is part of Audyssey and the latter under Sound Parameters.

 

[highfigh]

Compression comes in many forms- sometimes, it only limits peaks and I suspect that Dynamic Volume does that. Otherwise, it can also make quiet passages a bit louder, so they aren't masked by room noise, ringing ears, etc. This can be frequency-specific, too and Dynamic Bass is that kind of compression.
In pro audio, there are even more types- hard knee is one, but it's used as a recording/live sound tool and would have no place for music reproduction.

dbx is a compression/expansion system and if it's not set correctly, it was possible to hear it become louder and softer without any relationship to the sounds- that was called 'pumping'..

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you. I understand that concept generally. What I don't understand is why there is a Dynamic Volume option (which is essentially compression as I understand it) and there is a separate option for Dynamic Compression that seems to be able to be applied together with Dynamic Volume or separately.

The former is part of Audyssey and the latter under Sound Parameters.

Dynamic Volume is an Audyssey thing, if you turn Audyssey off you have other options for dynamic compression I assume. I can't really tell from the limited screenshots alone....what unit is it?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have to dive deep into my brain cell...
But, IIRC there was a big long thread on AVS where people had complaints of soundtracks sounding pulled back, and gutless. They found that in the loudness menu, the DRC was on by default( never understand wtf they were thinking with that one). Problem was, the AVR had to be receiving an a active Atmos, or DD+(iirc) signal to deactivate it. Otherwise it was grayed out, and couldn’t be switched off. I don’t remember if my 6012 came that way or not, but I did go into the menu and make sure it was off.
You can prob find the thread over there with a little digging. Might be a good idea, since my little brain cell forgets things...

 

[3db]

Compression comes in many forms- sometimes, it only limits peaks and I suspect that Dynamic Volume does that. Otherwise, it can also make quiet passages a bit louder, so they aren't masked by room noise, ringing ears, etc. This can be frequency-specific, too and Dynamic Bass is that kind of compression.
In pro audio, there are even more types- hard knee is one, but it's used as a recording/live sound tool and would have no place for music reproduction.

dbx is a compression/expansion system and if it's not set correctly, it was possible to hear it become louder and softer without any relationship to the sounds- that was called 'pumping'..

When dbx is setup properly, its freaken awesome. Yamaha incoporated dbx2 as well as the standard Dolby B and C NR systems on alot of their higher end cassette decks. I have 5 decks with dbx2 and it was a godsend for cassettes. It doesnt matter which deck I used to record with dbx, the sound is phenominal on all 5 decks.

 

[Trell]

...
ps usual use for dynamic volume is to keep overall levels somewhat even keel, like for late night listening.

Or when watching cable TV with obnoxious loud commercials.

 

[Pogre]

I can't seem to find dynamic compression in my SR6011 menu. With Audyssey turned on or off, and I think I flipped through almost every menu.

I did however, go down a picture mode rabbit hole for about 15 minutes and had some fun with that. I left it turned off in the end tho...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I can't seem to find dynamic compression in my SR6011 menu. With Audyssey turned on or off, and I think I flipped through almost every menu.

I did however, go down a picture mode rabbit hole for about 15 minutes and had some fun with that. I left it turned off in the end tho...

Sup brother. It’s in the loudness management menu. I’ll fire up my 6012 and have a look...

 

[3db]

I can't seem to find dynamic compression in my SR6011 menu. With Audyssey turned on or off, and I think I flipped through almost every menu.

I did however, go down a picture mode rabbit hole for about 15 minutes and had some fun with that. I left it turned off in the end tho...

Lots of rabbit holes in AVR menues to fall into.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Poges
Setup
Audio
Surround parameter
Loudness management

 

[ryanosaur]

Sup brother. It’s in the loudness management menu. I’ll fire up my 6012 and have a look...

I don't recall this in mine... was thinking it was a newer implementation. Would love to know what you find.

Interesting thing would be if D&M instituted this as an end around for people who didn't want to use Aud.

What @highfigh said earlier struck me in that I the the Aud. Dynamic Volume was about minimizing peaks for "safer" nighttime viewing. My reading of the Dynamic Compression was more a balance between high and low. Could be wrong and am glad for any correction/definitive answer.

 

[TechToys2]

Dynamic Volume is an Audyssey thing, if you turn Audyssey off you have other options for dynamic compression I assume. I can't really tell from the limited screenshots alone....what unit is it?

It's a Marantz 6014. The dynamic compression options is found where William noted above; Setup->Audio->Sound Parameter (I don't recall off hand if it is directly in there or further under Loudness Management).

Default is Loudness Management On, but Dynamic Compression is off. I don't think it even appears as an option unless there is an active Dolby Digital+, Atmos, etc. signal.

 

[Pogre]

Poges
Setup
Audio
Surround parameter
Loudness management

My options there are-
Cinema EQ
Center Spread
That's it. Both off and on. Same with Audyssey on or off. Do I need to be in pure/direct?

 

[TechToys2]

I have to dive deep into my brain cell...
But, IIRC there was a big long thread on AVS where people had complaints of soundtracks sounding pulled back, and gutless. They found that in the loudness menu, the DRC was on by default( never understand wtf they were thinking with that one). Problem was, the AVR had to be receiving an a active Atmos, or DD+(iirc) signal to deactivate it. Otherwise it was grayed out, and couldn’t be switched off. I don’t remember if my 6012 came that way or not, but I did go into the menu and make sure it was off.
You can prob find the thread over there with a little digging. Might be a good idea, since my little brain cell forgets things...

Will try to dig it up. It seems to be off by default now.

 

[Pogre]

Man, I ultimately don't really care because I will never use it. I just... need... closure!

 

[Pogre]

I don't think it even appears as an option unless there is an active Dolby Digital+, Atmos, etc. signal.

AH HA! That's why I'm not seeing it I'll bet! I'm watching youtube right now.