The wonders(blunders) of Definitive Technology

[William Lemmerhirt]

Bill! How dare you pretend not to see me posting, you sonofabitch!

Ha ha! Good to see you man!

My brother! I’ve been waiting to drop in on you when I had a good chance. Been going too many directions at once lately.
It’s good to see you’ round these parts, glad you’re back.
Got worried about ya. Lol!!!

 

[Pogre]

My brother! I’ve been waiting to drop in on you when I had a good chance. Been going too many directions at once lately.
It’s good to see you’ round these parts, glad you’re back.
Got worried about ya. Lol!!!

Yeah, I was just laying low for a while. Took a break, came back refreshed and ready to beat up on expensive cables!

I appreciated your text man. You're partly what nudged me to poke my head back in here again. I have someone coming over to listen to the Ultra towers in a few hours. I'm pretty sure he'll be going home with them and I already ordered my Horizon Center channel. That'll complete my 5.0 Ascend Acoustics bed layer. He's driving 80 miles and we already dickered price in text so I'm pretty sure he's committed now. I have them hooked up to an old receiver and some good, clean recordings queued up that'll really make 'em shine.

 

[BMXTRIX]

In a scenario if these speakers are not being used through the onboard amp, what would the cross over be set at? Would the passive radiators work or would it just be a larger book shelf speaker?

I am pretty sure those are not active speakers. Sorry, I'm saying that wrong. Most Def-Tech speakers are a passive speaker with a active subwoofer integrated into them for the models which have an integrated amp. I'm not fully knowledgeable in all of their speakers, but I believe that's the case. Typically you run both line level and speaker level to their speakers. So, their standard speakers inside the enclosure and run in a traditional manner. You can run them off any AV receiver just fine. They often sound good, and sometimes sound excellent. My BP30 speakers were very well reviewed and considered one of the better values for home theater at the time of purchase.

While you lose the low end base 'full range' feature, that's something you can fill in with proper subs in the room. I'm not completely sure how my final theater will send up working, but at this point I have several 10" subs along with a 18" model which I will be trying to sort through for best response.

But, please let us know specifically what model you have and maybe a link to the product page/owner's manual so that we can give you some more specific feedback on what your options may be for best overall performance.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yeah, I was just laying low for a while. Took a break, came back refreshed and ready to beat up on expensive cables!

I appreciated your text man. You're partly what nudged me to poke my head back in here again. I have someone coming over to listen to the Ultra towers in a few hours. I'm pretty sure he'll be going home with them and I already ordered my Horizon Center channel. That'll complete my 5.0 Ascend Acoustics bed layer. He's driving 80 miles and we already dickered price in text so I'm pretty sure he's committed now. I have them hooked up to an old receiver and some good, clean recordings queued up that'll really make 'em shine.

Well, you missed some upgrades on my end....

The Philharmonic Audio BMR, Refreshed!

You're right about power handling, although the Scan is a really high bar. The trade-off for a little extra volume at 34 Hz is a very heavy cone that breaks up fairly early and requires a steep slope to the mid to suppress the breakup. The SB Ceramic is much smoother, to the point that on...

forums.audioholics.com

I'm just gonna leave this right here....my first DIY BMR is done and sound checked, the 2nd should be done within a few days.

Flat packs from Speaker HW, parts from Meniscus. These are a lot of work!

For those of you that are not familiar with the speaker on the stand, that is the Alexis Sound Rebecca (i.e. one of the Philharmonitor iterations, SB woofer and Fountek Ribbon Tweet).

 

[Pogre]

Well, you missed some upgrades on my end....

The Philharmonic Audio BMR, Refreshed!

You're right about power handling, although the Scan is a really high bar. The trade-off for a little extra volume at 34 Hz is a very heavy cone that breaks up fairly early and requires a steep slope to the mid to suppress the breakup. The SB Ceramic is much smoother, to the point that on...

forums.audioholics.com

I'm just gonna leave this right here....my first DIY BMR is done and sound checked, the 2nd should be done within a few days.

Flat packs from Speaker HW, parts from Meniscus. These are a lot of work!

For those of you that are not familiar with the speaker on the stand, that is the Alexis Sound Rebecca (i.e. one of the Philharmonitor iterations, SB woofer and Fountek Ribbon Tweet).

View attachment 44022

Oh my goodness! That looks awesome! Nice job man! I remember you were just starting to put together a plan for those when I was posting here last. If there were any other speakers I'd want it'd be those man.

 

[slipperybidness]

Oh my goodness! That looks awesome! Nice job man! I remember you were just starting to put together a plan for those when I was posting here last. If there were any other speakers I'd want it'd be those man.

I am very pleased with the BMRs! But, like I said, a lot of work and not for a complete newb to DIY on it. If I had known these would come back around for $1700 from Dennis, I would have waited on that. Even the Salk $2400 doesn't seem so bad after all the $ and work that went into them.

Now, my Alexis/Phils have been demoted, I have not figured out their new application yet.

Note that the DIY BMR is sitting on a Rythmik F15HP! Those BMRs paired with the Rythmik in a fairly small room hit with some AUTHORITY!

 

[ryanosaur]

Oh my goodness! That looks awesome! Nice job man! I remember you were just starting to put together a plan for those when I was posting here last. If there were any other speakers I'd want it'd be those man.

Just wait til the BMR Towers come out! The same Raal 64-10 and Tectonic BMR Drivers in an MTM config, sitting on top of the same ScanSpeak 8" Revelator woofer that is found in the Phil 3s!
If that BMR we know and love can go pretty much toe-to-toe with the Sierra Towers... The tower will be very exciting.

 

[Pogre]

Just wait til the BMR Towers come out! The same Raal 64-10 and Tectonic BMR Drivers in an MTM config, sitting on top of the same ScanSpeak 8" Revelator woofer that is found in the Phil 3s!
If that BMR we know and love can go pretty much toe-to-toe with the Sierra Towers... The tower will be very exciting.

Oh boy, a BMR Tower does tickle the excitement feelers for sure!

 

[ryanosaur]

Cabinets are supposed to be on a boat coming from China, along with more cabinets for the updated BMR featuring the SB Acoustics 6" Ceramic Woofer. I think Dennis mentioned March(?) as the arrival date for the cabinets. Uncertain when the tower will be made available... Ticket will be around $3500 for a pair.

 

[slipperybidness]

Just wait til the BMR Towers come out! The same Raal 64-10 and Tectonic BMR Drivers in an MTM config, sitting on top of the same ScanSpeak 8" Revelator woofer that is found in the Phil 3s!
If that BMR we know and love can go pretty much toe-to-toe with the Sierra Towers... The tower will be very exciting.

My Rythmik sub ain't worried about no BMR towers

Seriously, I have a hard time believing I would get any benefit out of the towers vs. my current setup. If I were a 2.0 purist and had a beastly amp, the towers would make sense.

On the other hand, I did discover that my wife prefers the looks of tower speakers and I am only allowed to have towers in the living room.....so there is that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DefTech customer support is awesome, among the best I've seen.

But if I were buying DefTech, it would only be new Demand series (very accurate speaker measurements from Audioholics) without any kind of amps inside them.

I've heard many complaints from friends and from online forums over the years about both speakers and subwoofers with INTERNAL Amplifiers. It's not just DefTech. It's most brands regardless of price.

Personally, I would NEVER buy any speaker or subwoofer with an internal amplifier. Having the amps EXTERNALLY makes 100% more sense to me for both speakers and subwoofers. And this goes for ALL BRANDS, not just DefTech.

 

[omar90]

Kinda depends on the speakers in question. Personally I would use the onboard amp, set speakers to small and use a 60 or 80 hz crossover with a true sub or 2 until the amp(s) died. Again, depending on the speaker, you may not even have passive radiators if the bass section is already powered. But yeah, his suggestion would turn your speakers into large bookshelf speakers, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have a good sub or 2. Which speakers are we talking about?

I have the BP 9060s for the front stage and currently running them as small crossed over at 80 Hz with LFE running to the towers. The Center is crossover at small 40 Hz. Let me know your thoughts if in a given scenario the amps die out will the crossovers still be working?

 

[ryanosaur]

I have the BP 9060s for the front stage and currently running them as small crossed over at 80 Hz with LFE running to the towers. The Center is crossover at small 40 Hz. Let me know your thoughts if in a given scenario the amps die out will the crossovers still be working?

I forget... do you have a real sub in the mix?

40 Hz is way too low for your center. 80-100 is much more realistic in terms of what that speaker can do in real life.

The crossovers as set in the AVR will still work, even if your speakers fail.

 

[omar90]

I forget... do you have a real sub in the mix?

40 Hz is way too low for your center. 80-100 is much more realistic in terms of what that speaker can do in real life.

The crossovers as set in the AVR will still work, even if your speakers fail.

I am utilising the onboard subwoofers currently on the speaker. However, I could consider adding a separate subwoofer or two.

 

[Pogre]

I am utilising the onboard subwoofers currently on the speaker. However, I could consider adding a separate subwoofer or two.

Well, at risk of sounding pedantic, those onboard bass drivers aren't really "sub" woofers. By definition a sub produces subsonic frequencies below 20 hz. I don't think your towers are getting anywhere near sub frequencies with any authority. I think the addition of a good sub or 2 would improve things for you, but... good sub money can get you some nicer, more reliable speakers too. I'd be worried about the onboard amps going out and being left with half a speaker.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

if the amps die, will the crossovers still be working?

The crossover inside the Speakers?

If the internal bass-amp dies, your tweeter and midrange will still work. The speaker just won't output any BASS.

 

[ryanosaur]

Well, at risk of sounding pedantic, those onboard bass drivers aren't really "sub" woofers. By definition a sub produces subsonic frequencies below 20 hz. I don't think your towers are getting anywhere near sub frequencies with any authority. I think the addition of a good sub or 2 would improve things for you, but... good sub money can get you some nicer, more reliable speakers too. I'd be worried about the onboard amps going out and being left with half a speaker.

THIS!

 

[Pogre]

I've heard many complaints from friends and from online forums over the years about both speakers and subwoofers with INTERNAL Amplifiers. It's not just DefTech. It's most brands regardless of price.

Personally, I would NEVER buy any speaker or subwoofer with an internal amplifier. Having the amps EXTERNALLY makes 100% more sense to me for both speakers and subwoofers. And this goes for ALL BRANDS, not just DefTech.

I'm a little more forgiving when it comes to inernal amps in subwoofers, but when or if mine die on me I may just buy passive next time and get a good external Crown or Behringer amp to power them. I agree with you about the advantages of using an external amp.