New to HT, could use some feedback

[NightHawkIX]

Hello everyone,

New to the forum, although I've been lurking here a few weeks gathering up tidbits. I made the transition to a full 5.1.2 HT setup late last year, and I could use some feedback to see if I've done the proper setup, and what steps remain to squeeze the most out of the new rig.

Without further ado, here are the components:
AVR: Yamaha TSR-700
Front L/R: Klipsch RP-280FA
Atmos/Height: Klipsch RP-280FA upfiring speakers (I know, I know...)
Center: Klipsch RP-404C
Surrounds: Klipsch RP-150M
Subwoofer: Klipsch R-112SW
TV: Sony X900H 75", android TV
Connections via HDMi 2.1 cables eArc. Wiring with monoprice 12GA copper + monoprice banana plugs.

Crossovers set at 80hz, except for the front L/R towers set at 60hz.
Yamaha YPAO measured using multipoint, and currently set to YPAO-Flat

Here are a few pictures of the layout:

I did a subwoofer crawl and found that I got the most bass energy by corner loading the sub. Unfortunately, I do seem to have some dead spots and hot spots for feeling the sub. Best I can tell, that counter on the left wall is wrecking havoc, and it's not easily removable.

One question I did have was, is it worth sound isolating the front and rear walls of the HT room? On the other side of the wall are HVAC units, and underneath bedrooms. So I'm hoping to both prevent HVAC noises from increasing the noise floor, and keep music from affecting people in the bedrooms (namely the wife). Fortunately, those walls are unfinished on one side, so I could get some rockwool and mass loaded vinyl onto the studs. Will this work for my purpose if I'm only able to insulate 2 walls?

I took some measurements in my primary listening positions in seats 2 and 3; here are the averaged recordings:

I seem to have a room node between 50-65 hz. Eq is using Yamaha's YPAO EQ, I tried messing around with manual EQ and seemed to have only made things sound worse/muddier . Do you guys think it's worth treating the side walls with some 2" acoustic absorbers to even out the HF?

So far my experience with this setup:
+ Feels like a good sound stage/atmosphere in most movies/games
+ Sounds aren't very isolatable
+ Mid/high range seems pretty good, but I've never heard a true audiophile system for comparison
- Bass response feels weak still. It's no longer boomy, but it doesn't have a lot of energy either.
- Could always be crisper? Right now I still feel like I'm lacking some clarity
- Manual EQ trying to flatten the HF seems to make things muddier and collapses the sound stage

Thanks! I'd appreciate any feedback!

 

[mazersteven]

The weak link

2 of these

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[William Lemmerhirt]

Cool room. How far bd k from the screen is the LP? Looks kinda close in one of the pics. I agree that the counter thing is not helping, but I’m not sure what you could do except treat the side of it. That might help give the feeling that the wall isn’t there, possibly sounding more like the right front. Imo, the surrounds are too high. Especially for Atmos. Only using two front heights might play nicely with the surrounds that high, but if you ever add rest heights(which id recommend) they’ll have to come down.
I would tend to say the sub could stand to be upgraded. And since you have rew, I’d use that instead of the crawl method.
For the dips, try raising the XO and remeasuring. Also, add a couple feet at a time to the sub distance and see if the dip moves. The punch is gone because imo that’s part of the midbass range, and that sub looks to drop off between 30 and 35hz. Can definitely do better. But, see what you can do with it for now at least.

 

[shadyJ]

You have a 10dB suckout from 50 to 70Hz. That is pretty bad. There isn't much you can do to address that with a single subwoofer without causing damage somewhere else in the response. The solution is to get a 2nd sub, and position it where it can shore up that null.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I did a subwoofer crawl and found that I got the most bass energy by corner loading the sub. Unfortunately, I do seem to have some dead spots and hot spots for feeling the sub. Best I can tell, that counter on the left wall is wrecking havoc, and it's not easily removable.

Bass “chases” boundaries, so It’s typical for loudness to increase the closer to a wall you are, and to decrease the closer to the center of the room you are.

Fortunately, none of your seats are close to the dead center of the room. Your readings in seats 2 and 3 aren’t different enough to be audible. Readings at the 1 and 4 locations should show the lows to be somewhat more prominent – if so, you’ll have to make the determination if it’s enough to be a problem.

IMO the large depression between 50-70 Hz seems abnormal for a room as big as this. I suspect something else is going on. Are we looking at a sub + L/R mains graph, or all speakers?

Make sure you have the sub’s built-in crossover fully bypassed. It almost looks like the sub’s upper frequencies are being rolled out.

Also, check the sub’s phase switch – moving it to the other position may make a difference.

As a last-ditch effort, you might try running the L/R mains full range. That may be sufficient to fill out the depression. Fortunately you went with large full-range speakers for the mains instead of bookshelfs, so they should be up to the task.

Aside from that, the reason the sub sounds weak overall is because its level is about par with the main speakers. Most people prefer the sub’s level to be elevated at least a few dB. If the level was set by the auto calibration system, feel free to raise it to where it sounds right.

As others have noted, the sub may not up to snuff for a room as large as this. It may well take a second one to get the levels you’re looking for.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[NightHawkIX]

Cool room. How far bd k from the screen is the LP? Looks kinda close in one of the pics. I agree that the counter thing is not helping, but I’m not sure what you could do except treat the side of it. That might help give the feeling that the wall isn’t there, possibly sounding more like the right front. Imo, the surrounds are too high. Especially for Atmos. Only using two front heights might play nicely with the surrounds that high, but if you ever add rest heights(which id recommend) they’ll have to come down.
I would tend to say the sub could stand to be upgraded. And since you have rew, I’d use that instead of the crawl method.
For the dips, try raising the XO and remeasuring. Also, add a couple feet at a time to the sub distance and see if the dip moves. The punch is gone because imo that’s part of the midbass range, and that sub looks to drop off between 30 and 35hz. Can definitely do better. But, see what you can do with it for now at least.

LP is 8.5ft from the screen.
Yep, if I go for a 5.x.4, I will use the routed cables there for height and place the SL/SR onto stands.
I've tried XO from 60hz to 100hz, and have not been able to do much for that suckout between 50-70hz. Within the confines of asthetics, I haven't been able to achieve much by moving the subwoofer around either.

 

[NightHawkIX]

You have a 10dB suckout from 50 to 70Hz. That is pretty bad. There isn't much you can do to address that with a single subwoofer without causing damage somewhere else in the response. The solution is to get a 2nd sub, and position it where it can shore up that null.

That's what I'm seeing as well. If I try to EQ the 50-70hz, I get a massive bump at 40 and 80hz and a large drop around 100hz. I have another subwoofer that I can bring downstairs to try out. Unfortunately, different model, so not sure how well it'd synergize. The TSR700 has the 2 sub outs in parallel, so I cannot individually EQ them easily.

 

[NightHawkIX]

Bass “chases” boundaries, so It’s typical for loudness to increase the closer to a wall you are, and to decrease the closer to the center of the room you are.

Fortunately, none of your seats are close to the dead center of the room. Your readings in seats 2 and 3 aren’t different enough to be audible. Readings at the 1 and 4 locations should show the lows to be somewhat more prominent – if so, you’ll have to make the determination if it’s enough to be a problem.

IMO the large depression between 50-70 Hz seems abnormal for a room as big as this. I suspect something else is going on. Are we looking at a sub + L/R mains graph, or all speakers?

Make sure you have the sub’s built-in crossover fully bypassed. It almost looks like the sub’s upper frequencies are being rolled out.

Also, check the sub’s phase switch – moving it to the other position may make a difference.

As a last-ditch effort, you might try running the L/R mains full range. That may be sufficient to fill out the depression. Fortunately you went with large full-range speakers for the mains instead of bookshelfs, so they should be up to the task.

Aside from that, the reason the sub sounds weak overall is because its level is about par with the main speakers. Most people prefer the sub’s level to be elevated at least a few dB. If the level was set by the auto calibration system, feel free to raise it to where it sounds right.

As others have noted, the sub may not up to snuff for a room as large as this. It may well take a second one to get the levels you’re looking for.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

The plots show L+Sub (Orange), or R+Sub (Green). Oddly, I can't seem to get REW to output a sweep onto other channels in the system.

The sub is currently set at LFE. I did play around with the phase- when I set it to 180, it shifts the dip to the 100-120hz range iirc. When I run the XO of the fronts to 40hz or 60hz, I do fine a slightly diminished dropout at 50-70, but I definitely don't feel as much bass energy (chest thumping) in certain applications.

I've set my SW levels from -4db (YPAO calib) to +0db, and will give it a shot.

I will note that in bass heavy music, if I sit on the counter on the left wall, the bass response feels very strong, but a tad boomy/muddied. I think I'll try to treat this surface first.

 

[NightHawkIX]

Thanks everyone for your replies and help!