Denon LFE Limited by Crossover Setting?

[KiterSuperFly]

Hey there! New to the forum, but have watched lots of videos! Thanks!

Question: Denon LFE+Main setting. I understand setting speaker and crossover setting in the setup of the AVR, but it is unclear, do the discreet LFE signals bypass these crossover settings, passing the full frequency of the LFE signal through?

For example, when listening to two channel music, mains are filtered out below crossover setting and those signals below those crossover low pass settings are passed through to the subwoofer. The subwoofer has a high pass, where signals above are not sent to the subwoofer?
When listening to a 5.1 or 7.1 feed, is the .1 discreet LFE channel is passed through in it's entirety, or is it limited by the crossover setting for the subwoofer high pass setting?

I guess to restate the question, is the LFE signal affected by the crossover settings? If so, why? It is a discreet channel and intended to be separate?

Thanks!

 

[KiterSuperFly]

I'll go further, thinking about this as I type...

when listening to music, only the stuff below the crossover setting for the mains is sent to the subwoofer, so the subwoofer crossover setting could be anything, as long as it is above the mains setting, so it won't cut out anything.

But when listening to an LFE signal, and I assume you want full range for that discreet signal,as intended, so have the crossover for the sub as high as possible (250hz, I think).

So, there should be no reason to limit the subwoofer with a crossover setting (unless solving some unique issue)?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You’re correct. Lfe is not effected by the XO. Only the LPF of LFE will change it by limiting how high the .1 will play.
And also, the LFE channel only goes from 3hz up to 120hz.

 

[Leemix]

Have you set your speakers to small?
If they are set to large they will fet the full signal with a copy if the bass to the sub.(double bass)


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[KiterSuperFly]

Understood, thanks for the answer William.

Leemix, I have large speakers. With small speakers, the settings are obvious. But with large "full-range" speakers I wanted to experiment with trying to support just the lowest of low bass for music without messing with or limiting the range of the LFE .1 signal output for movie watching.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Leemix]

Understood, thanks for the answer William.

Leemix, I have large speakers. With small speakers, the settings are obvious. But with large "full-range" speakers I wanted to experiment with trying to support just the lowest of low bass for music without messing with or limiting the range of the LFE .1 signal output for movie watching.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas!
Check if you have a separate 2 channel setup, think its under options on the remote, many Marantz and maybe Denon AVRs have that and its great for different setups for music vs movies.

And it just seems wrong to set big main speakers as “small” so would be nice if they changed it to bass management yes/no or something.


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[KiterSuperFly]

Agreed. And my AVR does not have the separate 2 channel setup or speaker setup presets. Time to upgrade I guess!

Thanks again.

 

[lovinthehd]

Agreed. And my AVR does not have the separate 2 channel setup or speaker setup presets. Time to upgrade I guess!

Thanks again.

Which Denon do you have?

 

[KiterSuperFly]

Denon AVR-S750H. The room is not large 3m x 3m, but open on one side and double door open on the other side, with high ceilings. The mains are Cerwin-Vega 280SE. (Kinda like that trashy neighbour who is always ready to party, but whom you would not invite to the opera! I can't bear to part with then and re-foamed them recently). The Denon does a surprisingly good job driving these 6ohm/150w 12" speakers to any volume I would want in the room, considering it's limited power. Hence adding the subwoofer to relieve some of the workload on the receiver. Klipsch R-120SW and a Klipsch centre channel with some older wall mount Infinity surrounds. Yes, not a lot of consistency there. You can really notice the difference in these speakers when running a test tone!
Anyway, slowly starting to upgrade things without blowing the bank. Some ceiling speaker are next.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you need to get into the X3xxx series and up to get the 2ch setup thing but even then you'd not get a way to play with the sub the way you mentioned as you'd still have to manually change settings on the sub. You could do the using the sub for blending below the range of your speakers now and use a 2.0 source in direct mode perhaps....but personally have not found that as good as simply using the bass management (LFE mode) myself. Good luck!

 

[KiterSuperFly]

Just an update on this thread. I ended up swapping out the Klipsch 12" for a Mission MS-200. The reason for this was that due to a space constraint. The big Klipsch R--120sw had to go to go beside the sofa instead of under the TV between the mains, and was VERY localizable (if that is even a word). The MS-200 fit neatly into the only space I had for it in-between my main speakers and under the TV, and what a difference. I am using LFE+Main mode for stereo music and it is blending nicely. I have a fuller low end to music now with the mains set to large and the crossover for stereo set to 60hz. The LFE for TV/movies is great. It can hit the volumes I need without crapping out, so I am happy.
Yes, the MS-200 could be a little fuller under 35hz, but it was on sale, and the next option that would fit in the space (front firing, sealed, dimension wise) was an SVS SB-1000 at almost triple the price of the MS-200.
I am impressed with the MS-200 in a value or $$$ way. No real reviews or tests on it that I could see online. I have the equipment to run REW and may put it through it's paces and post here if I get a chance.
Now that it is wired up for it. I may try out a second sub next to the sofa one day, if I find a bargain.

Amateur tip (that I am sure many others have thought of before me!) Used a tone generator to find and remove a bunch of resonant vibrations in and around the cabinet under the TV.

On another note. I think it is sad that Denon, Marantz, et al, don't make lower channel count receivers at higher wattage. For example, they should make a line of 7.1 receivers in low and in higher power, do the same for 9.1, etc.
Just a thought. If you only need a 5.1 setup, they don't make a receiver with balls, but they easily could.

 

[Leemix]

Just an update on this thread. I ended up swapping out the Klipsch 12" for a Mission MS-200. The reason for this was that due to a space constraint. The big Klipsch R--120sw had to go to go beside the sofa instead of under the TV between the mains, and was VERY localizable (if that is even a word). The MS-200 fit neatly into the only space I had for it in-between my main speakers and under the TV, and what a difference. I am using LFE+Main mode for stereo music and it is blending nicely. I have a fuller low end to music now with the mains set to large and the crossover for stereo set to 60hz. The LFE for TV/movies is great. It can hit the volumes I need without crapping out, so I am happy.
Yes, the MS-200 could be a little fuller under 35hz, but it was on sale, and the next option that would fit in the space (front firing, sealed, dimension wise) was an SVS SB-1000 at almost triple the price of the MS-200.
I am impressed with the MS-200 in a value or $$$ way. No real reviews or tests on it that I could see online. I have the equipment to run REW and may put it through it's paces and post here if I get a chance.
Now that it is wired up for it. I may try out a second sub next to the sofa one day, if I find a bargain.

Amateur tip (that I am sure many others have thought of before me!) Used a tone generator to find and remove a bunch of resonant vibrations in and around the cabinet under the TV.

On another note. I think it is sad that Denon, Marantz, et al, don't make lower channel count receivers at higher wattage. For example, they should make a line of 7.1 receivers in low and in higher power, do the same for 9.1, etc.
Just a thought. If you only need a 5.1 setup, they don't make a receiver with balls, but they easily could.

They kind of do because the bigger models have larger power supplies which is able to deliver the current needed to those few channels used as opposed to struggle when all channels are driven hard. The amp boards themselves are probably very cheap when compared to the power supply, the chassis and processing/licenses.


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