Best Sound System for the Money?

  • Thread starter ToneDeafAudioRookie
  • Start date
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Haha! The reason I don't want to spend money on the audio system in the bedroom is because I'm saving it for the new living room! ;)
Oh, got it. Spend away, but spend wisely. These guys will not steer you in the wrong direction.:)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
How are those Kali's with Volume levels. I had some Mackie 824's. Absolutely Fantastic speakers. Only issue I had was they didn't like higher dB's.
The Kalis would surely be more capable than the Mackie MR series, and at least on par with the Mackie HR THX series.
 
V

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic General
The Denon 3600 $799 deal is over - otherwise I would recommend it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The living room where this new home theater speaker system will be installed is approximately 625 square feet. The floor, walls, and even the ceiling are hardwood (with the exception of the one wall where the tv will be mounted, which is sheet rock). The ceilings are about 10 feet high and access to the living room is open concept to the dining room.

I already have hearing loss from work, so I generally have to turn the sound up high just to be able to understand what people are saying on TV or in movies. I keep the Onkyo speakers/AV system mentioned in my first thread turned up between 68-78 so I can hear everything. I've actually even had the Marantz shut off automatically before because I've had the system turned up too high during movies (apparently could not handle the power ouput).

I'd like to find the best for the money at around the $5,000 (give or take $1000) price range for the living room, but this needs to include all the speakers, subwoofer(s) and the AV Receiver. Does everyone agree the Kali system recommended by shadyJ would be the best bet for this room size and budget range? I do like the look of those paradigm speakers.
I'd think about what shadyj has to say for sure....he reviews the speakers here at Audioholics and has heard more than many.....
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The living room where this new home theater speaker system will be installed is approximately 625 square feet. The floor, walls, and even the ceiling are hardwood (with the exception of the one wall where the tv will be mounted, which is sheet rock). The ceilings are about 10 feet high and access to the living room is open concept to the dining room.

I already have hearing loss from work, so I generally have to turn the sound up high just to be able to understand what people are saying on TV or in movies. I keep the Onkyo speakers/AV system mentioned in my first thread turned up between 68-78 so I can hear everything. I've actually even had the Marantz shut off automatically before because I've had the system turned up too high during movies (apparently could not handle the power ouput).

I'd like to find the best for the money at around the $5,000 (give or take $1000) price range for the living room, but this needs to include all the speakers, subwoofer(s) and the AV Receiver. Does everyone agree the Kali system recommended by shadyJ would be the best bet for this room size and budget range? I do like the look of those paradigm speakers.
There are some caveats to the Kali system. Yes, it is unbeatable as far as sound quality for the money goes, but they are intended for studio monitoring really, so they put all the money into parts that matter for sound quality, and so they aren't very pretty. Also, you need to accommodate one for a center speaker, and most 'entertainment shelf systems' only have space for small, horizontal center speakers (most of those 'entertainment shelf systems' are so incredibly bad).

Also keep in mind that they are powered speakers, so they each need to reach a power source as well as a signal source. If I remember right, the cables that came with them are about 6 feet long. You can buy longer power cables for them that have three-prong grounded plugs.

You will want to wire them up with balanced connections, and I recommend XLR to XLR cables to hook them up with the Outlaw processor. XLR cables are a bit more expensive than unbalanced signal cables.

Another caveat is that they do have a low-level noise that is audible if you are close to the speaker. This is a consequence of the way the signal chain is handled to give them such a wide dynamic range. This isn't a big deal if you aren't seated close to the speaker, like less than a couple meters, but if these things are going to be near you, and you are bothered by a slight background noise, I would recommend the PreSonus Eris E8 XT as an alternative. Then again, you say you have hearing loss, and I think the nature of the background noise is such that those with high-frequency hearing loss, which is by far the most common kind of hearing loss, would not be able to hear the noise floor of the Kali speakers.

If you can deal with those caveats, then you can have a speaker that is far more linear and has a much wider dynamic range than any passive speaker at its price range, and it also spares you the expense of having to buy separate amplification. Likewise, the Hsu subs are pretty much unbeatable for raw performance for the dollar. The VTF15h mk2 is the one to get with the Outlaw processor because it can also handle XLR inputs. The Outlaw Model 976 processor is a crazy good deal because it uses XLR outputs and can be endlessly fine-tuned by the user if desired. While the Kali speakers can accommodate unbalanced inputs, you are really going to want to use the XLR inputs on them for best performance. A lot of unbalanced connections are just too noisy for studio gear, especially speakers as sensitive as the Kalis.

The PreSonus Eris E8 XT speakers are bit more expensive, but they do look nicer, in my opinion, and their sound quality is on par with the Kali LP-8 speakers. I don't think they can get quite as loud as the Kalis, but they can get pretty loud.
 
M

MacCali

Full Audioholic
I would try and demo speakers to get an idea where they are and what equipment is powering them, I see you have a large room. I mean that’s fine and I am not sure what you may be considering, but it seems like you’re concerned about the sound.

In that case I would think you probably just need multiple subs and anything else shouldn’t be a factor. If volume is the factor you need to buy a decent receiver like an 8012 and you should have no issues.

Sorry if I got lost in translation. But your opportunity is quickly approaching
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
If volume is the factor you need to buy a decent receiver like an 8012 and you should have no issues.
So lets just do the math on your recommendation.

$6000 budget
- $2500 for the Marantz SR8012
- $1700 dual subs
Leaves $1800 for 7 Speakers

I'm not saying that's impossible, but this recommendation means getting less sound quality then what was already recommend.
 
M

MacCali

Full Audioholic
Most Helpful. Thanks!
Also I think you are probably taking the power configuration too serious. Speakers would work with 50 watts even if they are capable of handling 150wpc. I think rather than sacrificing sound I would buy a 7013 or the Denon 4500H, both have equal watts per channel. Marantz 1400 on Black Friday most likely and the 4500H is already 1200.

Now you can invest 1100 to 1300 on top of what mazer suggested.

I got a 7013 and even though my room is small at 0db it’s foolish loud. I don’t even know what the maximum db is of my unit.

I really doubt you will ever near max dB or reach even 5 dB or even 10 dB close to it. Max is 18 dB.

I think you need to consider older receivers just regained a lot of value because there’s hardly any difference between between 2020 models and 18’ 19’. No receiver had 8k or 4K/120 and probably won’t until end of 2021 or 22.

It’s not worth it to sacrifice sound quality for less of a nob turn on your volume because that’s what it amounts too.
 
T

ToneDeafAudioRookie

Enthusiast
Also I think you are probably taking the power configuration too serious. Speakers would work with 50 watts even if they are capable of handling 150wpc. I think rather than sacrificing sound I would buy a 7013 or the Denon 4500H, both have equal watts per channel. Marantz 1400 on Black Friday most likely and the 4500H is already 1200.

It’s not worth it to sacrifice sound quality for less of a nob turn on your volume because that’s what it amounts too.
I think what I'm trying to avoid in my AV Receiver selection is not be able to take full advantage of the volume potential of all my speakers. The Marantz in the bedroom has shut off several times all by itself because I had the speaker volumes too high, and they weren't even what I would consider loud.

Based on all of your great suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to either the Paradigm speakers or the Kalis. I'll have to do a closer comparison of all the factors and make a final decision on Black Friday.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I think what I'm trying to avoid in my AV Receiver selection is not be able to take full advantage of the volume potential of all my speakers. The Marantz in the bedroom has shut off several times all by itself because I had the speaker volumes too high, and they weren't even what I would consider loud.

Based on all of your great suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to either the Paradigm speakers or the Kalis. I'll have to do a closer comparison of all the factors and make a final decision on Black Friday.
Well, you were trying to blast seven 6 ohm speakers with a slim model. :eek:
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
I think what I'm trying to avoid in my AV Receiver selection is not be able to take full advantage of the volume potential of all my speakers. The Marantz in the bedroom has shut off several times all by itself because I had the speaker volumes too high, and they weren't even what I would consider loud.

Based on all of your great suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to either the Paradigm speakers or the Kalis. I'll have to do a closer comparison of all the factors and make a final decision on Black Friday.
Well you'll have no issue driving the Klipsch, Paradigm, or Kali speakers with an AVR/Processor.

There is a Denon 3600 on Amazon for $899
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think what I'm trying to avoid in my AV Receiver selection is not be able to take full advantage of the volume potential of all my speakers. The Marantz in the bedroom has shut off several times all by itself because I had the speaker volumes too high, and they weren't even what I would consider loud.

Based on all of your great suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to either the Paradigm speakers or the Kalis. I'll have to do a closer comparison of all the factors and make a final decision on Black Friday.
How are you determining this "volume potential"?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I think what I'm trying to avoid in my AV Receiver selection is not be able to take full advantage of the volume potential of all my speakers. The Marantz in the bedroom has shut off several times all by itself because I had the speaker volumes too high, and they weren't even what I would consider loud.

Based on all of your great suggestions, I think I've narrowed it down to either the Paradigm speakers or the Kalis. I'll have to do a closer comparison of all the factors and make a final decision on Black Friday.
One of the nice things about the Kalis and other powered monitors like them is that the system is carefully matched for all of the components to fulfill their potential. Not a penny is wasted, and nothing is left on the table. The amplifiers in the Kalis is just right for their drivers. And what is more, the system is carefully limited to prevent damage from being overdriven. When the amp hits full power, it will not attempt to be driven at higher levels thanks to a digital limiter.

With passive speakers, it's a bit more ambiguous what speakers can handle. It's also more ambiguous what AVRs will do when loaded with a whole lot of speakers that have to share the same power supply. There is also the matter of how well the amplifier reacts to lower impedance and phase loads. If you want to get the most out of a set of Paradigm Premier speakers from an AVR, you will have to do your homework regarding the Premier's impedance, power handling, and an AVR that could carry that load well. They can sound good with a midrange AVR, but you will want to drive them with a higher-end AVR if you want them to reach their potential.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
If you want to get the most out of a set of Paradigm Premier speakers from an AVR, you will have to do your homework regarding the Premier's impedance, power handling, and an AVR that could carry that load well.

They can sound good with a midrange AVR, but you will want to drive them with a higher-end AVR if you want them to reach their potential.
tenor-3.gif
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
The amplifiers in the Kalis is just right for their drivers. And what is more, the system is carefully limited to prevent damage from being overdriven. When the amp hits full power, it will not attempt to be driven at higher levels thanks to a digital limiter.
So you're saying just like the Mackies they're limited on the volume they can produce. Which is why most studio monitors will not work in an H/T environment because of their limitations
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Each speaker has it's volume limits. If very high volume is a priority then get speakers suited to it particularly and use amplification suited to those speakers. Few speakers come with information as to upper spl limits outside of pro gear, tho.
 
K

Kleinst

Senior Audioholic
One of the nice things about the Kalis and other powered monitors like them is that the system is carefully matched for all of the components to fulfill their potential. Not a penny is wasted, and nothing is left on the table. The amplifiers in the Kalis is just right for their drivers. And what is more, the system is carefully limited to prevent damage from being overdriven. When the amp hits full power, it will not attempt to be driven at higher levels thanks to a digital limiter.

With passive speakers, it's a bit more ambiguous what speakers can handle. It's also more ambiguous what AVRs will do when loaded with a whole lot of speakers that have to share the same power supply. There is also the matter of how well the amplifier reacts to lower impedance and phase loads. If you want to get the most out of a set of Paradigm Premier speakers from an AVR, you will have to do your homework regarding the Premier's impedance, power handling, and an AVR that could carry that load well. They can sound good with a midrange AVR, but you will want to drive them with a higher-end AVR if you want them to reach their potential.
Do the AMPs in these types of studio powered speakers tend to last a long time? Or is there much risk that replacing the AMPS would be difficult in a future years?
 
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