Noise in Emotiva power amp

[lovinthehd]

Emotiva does not "refuse" to service their own products.

Well they did for Gene, the guy behind Audioholics, on his XPR-1.....maybe it was "couldn't" instead of "wouldn't".....believe something about liability came into the conversation....check out Gene's comment in post 58 https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-xmc-2.115575/page-3 altho I can't find his original report....

 

[Landmonster]

If I recall correctly, the XPR-1 was not produced in very high numbers. Emotiva could not source the parts needed to replace them. It was more of an issue of "could not" than a refusal.

I did talk to Emotiva about this because it concerned me. They are willing to repair used and out-of-warranty products, but you have to pay for their repairs as long as they can source parts for it.

So if you are going to buy an Emotiva, I'd stick with the current generation stuff, not one of their older or rarer designs.

Gene would have to clarify, as I was not involved. Obviously I am not Gene.

That does kind of suck... I wonder if they would offer a different solution. Perhaps a discount on a new replacement amp? or some kind of alternative part-mod, so the amp doesn't just become a paperweight?

If I was in their shoes, and literally was in a spot where I could not source a part, then I could not repair an amp either. My 2 solutions would be to offer a discount on a new amp, or offer some kind of modification. I don't know what they were willing to do.




FWIW:
I own an Emotiva XPA-7 gen3 that I bought used off of eBay in Dec. 2019. It has been flawless for 10 months, and a big sonic upgrade over the Denon X4500 amps I was using previously. It was about 1 year old when I bought it.

Emotiva reps helped transfer the warranty from the previous owner (he bought it new) to me.

I was going to probably get a Monolith 7. I had no hard feelings against the Monolith 7, but the used Emotiva was slightly cheaper, and provided more power (250x5) when driven in 5 channel mode. I am still using the Polk LSiM speakers, and the Denon X4500 was REALLY struggling*, running almost too hot to touch.

Ergo, I wanted all the power I could throw towards them.

Interestingly, the bass improved a lot, and the Emotiva runs cool to the touch and doesn't sound strained or distorted any at high volumes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They (EMO) will not fix products for FREE after the warranty expires. They will fix them for labor and parts fees. The only exception to this is if the parts are discontinued and somehow unavailable to be sourced.

I doubt if Gene or anyone expects Emotiva or any company to Repair FOR FREE if the item is out of warranty.

That just sounds stupid how Emotiva would not repair their own amp.
They won't repair any of their OWN amps if the warranty period is over?

It was stupid TBH. Based on this experience, and the fact I haven't had a single Emotiva product last more than 5 years that I've owned, it saddens me to say that I won't be reviewing or recommending their gear anymore on this website. I hope they re-evaluate their out of warranty service to their customers in the future.

 

[slipperybidness]

If I recall correctly, the XPR-1 was not produced in very high numbers. Emotiva could not source the parts needed to replace them.

It was more of an issue of "could not"

So if you are going to buy an Emotiva, I'd stick with the current generation stuff, not one of their older or rarer designs.

Gene would have to clarify, as I was not directly involved.



FWIW: I own a Emotiva XPA-7 gen3 that I bought used off of eBay in Dec. 2019. It has been flawless for 10 months, and a big sonic upgrade over the Denon X4500 amps I was using previously.

Emotiva reps transferred the warranty from the previous owner (he bought it new) to me.


I had no hard feelings against the Monolith 7, but the used Emotiva was slightly cheaper, and provided more power (250x5) when driven in 5 channel mode.

One of the problems is that Emo tends to have very short life cycles for their products. So, end production of a product means that "we can't service that product"????

Despite laws in the USA that clearly indicate a requirement for 7 years of service life after production ceases! Emo needs to stock up on those parts to not violate that law.

 

[mazersteven]

It was more of an issue of "could not"

Then you shouldn't sell stuff you can't service and fix imagine if Toyota did that

 

[highfigh]

One of the problems is that Emo tends to have very short life cycles for their products. So, end production of a product means that "we can't service that product"????

Despite laws in the USA that clearly indicate a requirement for 7 years of service life after production ceases! Emo needs to stock up on those parts to not violate that law.

Seems more like, "We can't support that product, now that we can't find replacement parts".

That's the main reason I don't like manufacturers using proprietary tech and parts- once the parts are disco'd or the people who know how it works leave, die, etc, nobody can repair it. Sometimes, nobody knows how it works.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Emotiva XPA-7...has been...a big sonic upgrade over the Denon X4500 amps...I am still using the Polk LSiM speakers, and the Denon X4500 was REALLY struggling*, running almost too hot to touch...

Big sonic upgrade? You mean it's louder?

And unless you're using ECO or Preamp mode, that Denon will get hot.

Running hot doesn't mean it's struggling to power the speakers. It just runs hot.

 

[Landmonster]

Big sonic upgrade? You mean it's louder?

And unless it has the ECO mode, that Denon will run hot even if you're not playing anything.

Running hot doesn't mean it's struggling to power the speakers. It just runs hot.

I ran the Denon for 6 months and was familiar with how it worked... yes it always got warm.

I ran it in Eco: auto, all the time.

It definitely changed temperatures when I connected more speakers, and then ran even hotter when I added the tower speakers. It became so hot I was worried about it - it nearly burned my hand. That never used to happen driving 2 bookshelf speakers.

(Granted, that was with 4 Polk LSiM tower speakers + their huge center channel, listening @ -10 to -15db. The Denon was able to do it, but it became intensely hot. )

Not being an audio engineer, common sense would me that's not a good sign for the health or longevity of that receiver. In pre-amp mode, the Denon hardly even gets warm now.

As to the 2nd point: Yes, the sound quality did improve. It's hard to quantify exactly.

The Emotiva definitely added more bass impact and slam, that was the most noticeable thing right away.

The sound is more clear at higher volumes and was a little more "real" sounding at all volume levels. But even on normal volumes at the same volume as before, the sound seems more realistic. It is not a night/day difference in clarity, no... but I was very familiar with how the Denon sounded having listened to it exclusively for 6 months.

When I added the Emotiva in the same system, the sound became more clear and slightly more expansive, just from not using the Denon's amps.

 

[PENG]

I ran the Denon for 6 months and was familiar with how it worked... yes it always got warm.

I ran it in Eco: auto, all the time.

It definitely changed temperatures when I connected more speakers, and then ran even hotter when I added the tower speakers. It became so hot I was worried about it - it nearly burned my hand. That never used to happen driving 2 bookshelf speakers.

(Granted, that was with 4 Polk LSiM tower speakers + their huge center channel, listening @ -10 to -15db. The Denon was able to do it, but it became intensely hot. )

Not being an audio engineer, common sense would me that's not a good sign for the health or longevity of that receiver. In pre-amp mode, the Denon hardly even gets warm now.

As to the 2nd point: Yes, the sound quality did improve. It's hard to quantify exactly.

The Emotiva definitely added more bass impact and slam, that was the most noticeable thing right away.

The sound is more clear at higher volumes and was a little more "real" sounding at all volume levels. But even on normal volumes at the same volume as before, the sound seems more realistic. It is not a night/day difference in clarity, no... but I was very familiar with how the Denon sounded having listened to it exclusively for 6 months.

When I added the Emotiva in the same system, the sound became more clear and slightly more expansive, just from not using the Denon's amps.

Sounds reasonable at volume -10, especially if the level trims are set to pluses. The LSiM towers could be a challenge for mid range AVRs, or any AVRs depending on the distance and spl listened to.

 

[mazersteven]

(Granted, that was with 4 Polk LSiM tower speakers + their huge center channel, listening @ -10 to -15db. The Denon was able to do it, but it became intensely hot. )

Well that's unusual because my Denon 4806 never gets hot running my LSi's - - Never

 

[Landmonster]

Well that's unusual because my Denon 4806 never gets hot running my LSi's - - Never

It's not really unusual. The old Denons like that didn't seem to run hot the same way.

I had an older Denon THX Ultra receiver from around 2003, I forget the model # ( I think it was 4800? or 4802 maybe), but it powered NHT tower speakers with built-in subs around 2003-2005, and it did not run hot. I ran it crazy loud.

The new Denon X4500 seems to runs hot under any real amp load.

This is my 3rd Denon receiver. The sound quality is very good, but it seems they keep cutting weight out of the chassis for some reason. The old Denon from ~2003 was built like a tank, it was about 50lbs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The LSiM towers could be a challenge for mid range AVRs, or any AVRs depending on the distance and spl listened to.

I think that can be said with any speaker.

The other factor is whether the speaker is being used as Large Full Range or as Small and allowing subwoofers to play the bass.

But for many people, the listening distance is usually no farther than 15FT and the average volume is usually no louder than 80dB.

The LSiM705 is 88dB/2.83V/m @ 8 ohm nominal with dual 7" woofers and the recommended amp power is 20W - 250W.

Plus, if their engineers think 20 Watts can power these speakers in many cases, I don't see how they are regarded as difficult to power.

 

[Landmonster]

I think that can be said with any speaker.

The other factor is whether the speaker is being used as Large Full Range or as Small and allowing subwoofers to play the bass.

But for many people, the listening distance is usually no farther than 15FT and the average volume is usually no louder than 80dB.

The LSiM705 is 88dB/2.83V/m @ 8 ohm nominal with dual 7" woofers and the recommended amp power is 20W - 250W.

So if their engineers think 20 Watts can power these speakers in many cases, I don't see how they are regarded as difficult to power.

I was running them all full-range. I had 2 LSiM 707s, and 2 LSiM 705s on the same Denon receiver, with no sub connected. I was exceeding 80db in my living room from them.

All the real-world reviews for the LSiM towers say they sound much better on real amplification. I can attest to that.

But yes, a receiver can power them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was running them all full-range. I had 2 LSiM 707s, and 2 LSiM 705s on the same Denon receiver, with no sub connected. I was exceeding 80db in my living room from them.

All the real-world reviews for the LSiM towers say they sound much better on real amplification. I can attest to that.

But yes, a receiver can power them.

Only the front 2 towers (the 707s, 88dB/2/83v/m, 20W-300W) get full-range signal while the surround channels do not get full-range signal. This is probably the biggest reason why the ACD situation isn't relevant in real life. Regardless of which surround speakers you have, even Revel Salon2, they're not getting full-range signal.

So the Denon (or any AVR) only has to "worry" about the main 2 speakers being full-range.

With 88dB/2.83v/m & 8 ohms nominal, 15FT distance, 20W would produce about 94dB from 2 speakers.

10 Watts would produce about 91dB.

5 Watts would produce about 88dB.

1 Watt would produce about 81dB.

There is probably a very good reason the Polk engineers rated the speakers at 20W-300W.

 

[Landmonster]

Why do you say that?

If you run in multi-channel stereo mode, they should all receive full-range, yes?

 

[lovinthehd]

Surrounds can get full range signal if mixed that way, perhaps not at same levels as mains, tho....

ps altho full levels if going with the dreaded multich stereo modes....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why do you say that?

If you run in multi-channel stereo mode, they should all receive full-range, yes?

But they don't.

I used to own the DefTech BP7001SC towers for surround speakers. I could NEVER get those built-in powered subwoofers to output any bass in MCH Stereo mode.

The ONLY way I could get any real bass to output on those BP7001SC Surround speakers is if I took the LFE signal and fed them to the built-in subwoofer of the BP7001SC.

Put your hand on those 705's woofers next time you listen to MCH Stereo mode.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why wouldn't multich stereo be full range? Never heard anyone say that before....

 

[Landmonster]

But they don't.

I used to own the DefTech BP7001SC towers for surround speakers. I could NEVER get those built-in powered subwoofers to output any bass in MCH Stereo mode. It's a waste of money.

The ONLY way I could get any real bass to output on those BP7001SC Surround speakers is if I took the LFE signal and fed them to the built-in subwoofer of the BP7001SC.

Put your hand on those 705's woofers next time you listen to MCH Stereo mode.

That is concerning, if true. How is that possible?

It seems like it would just depend on the pre-amp signal to the amp's rear channels, in this case.

What receiver were you using?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That is concerning, if true. How is that possible?

It seems like it would just depend on the pre-amp signal to the amp's rear channels, in this case.

What receiver were you using?

Denon AVR-5308CI.

But it's very easy to test. Try MCH Stereo on your AVR. Of course, use bass-heavy music to get your front 707's woofers to move. Then put your hand on the 705's woofers and compare the woofer movement.