Anything better than JTR RS2 for the price?

[ryanosaur]

They refuse to make bigger ones with a Piano finish for some reason.

Piano Black is an expensive finish due to the labor involved. I was spitballing with the guy who built my Mains about the finish... my other speakers are Piano Black but I didn't necessarily need the Mains to match... he thought I was asking for that and about laughed me off the phone. Those Bass Cabinets are roughly 2'x2'x1', and he said there was no way he'd have his guys do a finish like that without a serious upcharge as it not only requires several layers of painting, but also each layer has to be sanded smooth. So the cabinet has to be perfect, each layer of paint needs to be near-perfect and each sanding needs to be done meticulously, so that the final layer of paint can be perfect... oh yeah, and then it still needs to be polished! Wheee!

 

[Landmonster]

Piano Black is an expensive finish due to the labor involved. I was spitballing with the guy who built my Mains about the finish... my other speakers are Piano Black but I didn't necessarily need the Mains to match... he thought I was asking for that and about laughed me off the phone. Those Bass Cabinets are roughly 2'x2'x1', and he said there was no way he'd have his guys do a finish like that without a serious upcharge as it not only requires several layers of painting, but also each layer has to be sanded smooth. So the cabinet has to be perfect, each layer of paint needs to be near-perfect and each sanding needs to be done meticulously, so that the final layer of paint can be perfect... oh yeah, and then it still needs to be polished! Wheee!

Yes I understand it is more difficult and costly. But I also think it looks better. I do really like the Piano black finish for a living room.

If the larger Rythmik subs or JTR subs came with this finish, I would likely prefer it as well. But as I said, the FV15HP size is about the largest I could fit regardless of finish, if I want 2 subs in my current room.

I guess my question is.... is the FV15HP 'adequate', or would I be substantially better served with a larger JTR sub.
I don't know the real-world performance differential of the 2.

I know Youthman from Youtube said he went from dual PB16 Ultras, to dual JTR RS2s, and he much preferred the JTR setup in his room. It was a huge upgrade. I'm thinking the PB16 Ultra is similar to the FV15Hp... so maybe the JTR is on another level.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd take the room mode smoothing of multiple subs over a single sub. Altho somewhat depends if you're only worried about one listening position....

 

[mazersteven]

I guess my question is.... is the FV15HP 'adequate', or would I be substantially better served with a larger JTR sub.
I don't know the real-world performance differential of the 2.

I know Youthman from Youtube said.

You have a Small/Medium room. Both of your sub choices will give you plenty of Headroom.

And there are guys on this Forum will way more knowledge then Youthman.

And I was under the impression that JTR will custom do finishes for you

 

[ryanosaur]

@Landmonster
I know this has come up before.
What is the total open room volume you will be placing the subwoofers in? This is different than your "Listening Area." It should include all open hallways and any other room connections that are not closed off.
This is a very important metric which you seem to continually neglect.
You are clearly focused on the “impact” of the subs and like many don’t trust that even the 15" Rythmiks will be able to satisfy you.
This is fine. At some point, many of us (myself included) have questioned this.

While it will be nice to give you piece of mind in what will and will not pressurize the Whole Space, you also don't necessarily need to to have a good experience.

Regardless:

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

This article outlines our test procedure in determining a subwoofers room size recommendation based on its max CEA SPL output while making room size and subwoofer distance assumptions.

www.audioholics.com

This is an oldy but goody, and Shady will still reference the Bassholic rating when he does a Sub Review.

If you understand the CEA-2010 measurements, then you can compare and contrast Subs and how they stack up against each other. You can easily cross reference their output against subs that AH has reviewed to see how they stack up. Sources like DataBass, here, anywhere you see that testing.
The only catch is you need to make certain you know at what distance the testing was measured. Hsu, for example, publishes 1meter tests which will not compare directly to many other tests which are done at 2m. In order to properly compare, you need to subtract 9dB from Hsus measurements to compare to Shady's here at AH.

With those two bits to work with, you can easily start to make the informed decision you keep asking us to help with.

In the end, most of the Subs that get tossed about all perform more or less on par with each other. Some may have stronger output sub-20Hz, and less Mid Bass compared to others. These tradeoffs are routine, and you have to make the decision for yourself what is more important. Low Bass or Mid Bass, Small Box or Large Box, Higher than average output or not... Suffice it to say, you can not have all of those.
A good reference is Hoffman's Iron Law. When it comes to Speaker Design, you can pick any two of these three, but you can never have all three: Extension, Sensitivity, Size. The two you pick will cost you the third. Always.

Cheers!

 

[Landmonster]

I have an unusual space that is an "open" concept.

The living room is technically 16' wide, 15' deep, 10' ceilings.

The right wall is a wall with 2 windows, to the exterior. The front and back walls are solid walls. The left side of the room is open to the kitchen, separated by a bar. This side extends all the way to the front of the house.

It is hard to calculate that space.

 

[Imureh]

Thanks.

My original plan... mostly due to space limitations, was looking at 2 Rythmik FV15's, in the piano black finish.

Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer FV15HP

Why? 2 reasons:

A) These are about the largest sub I can fit on either side of my current entertainment unit. So I'd get 2 subs upfront, instead of 1. (18" wide vs 21" makes a large difference in a cramped space. )
B) Those are the largest subs that Rymthik offers in the Piano black finish. They refuse to make bigger ones with a Piano finish for some reason. Aesthetically, I would prefer a nice finish like that for a living room.

That would look a lot better ( aesthetically anyway), but may not be nearly as good from an audio perspective.

However, I did wonder if stepping up to a single JTR would be a wise long-term move. I could use a single JTR now, and plan on adding more JTRs later in a larger home.

1) How would dual FVH15s compare to a single JTR RS2? The price is relatively the same, all things considered. $1700 x 2, vs $3500 for 1.

2) If I chose to get Rythmiks now, due to space, would it be dumb to mix JTR subs and Rhymik subs in the same theater room, at a later date? The next home I buy will most likely have a dedicated media room. At that time, space won't be such a limiting factor. Would it be wrong/unwise to mix JTR + Rythmik in the same room? Or smarter to have a full JTR setup?

The FV15HP is a $1400 sub not $1700. Plus you are in Texas as I said on the other forum and can save a lot on shipping. It’s no brainer again for some one within driving distance of Rythmik. JTR does custom finishes, really good one but add another $500 and a month to order time.


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[Landmonster]

I'm concerned with the long-game here. I will be moving houses in a year or so.

Rythmik won't do custom finishes on the subs above FV15HP. They wanted $1700 for a Piano black FV15HP

 

[mazersteven]

as I said on the other forum

OTHER FORUM??? You Cheating Bastardo

 

[ryanosaur]

I have an unusual space that is an "open" concept.

The living room is technically 16' wide, 15' deep, 10' ceilings.

The right wall is a wall with 2 windows, to the exterior. The front and back walls are solid walls. The left side of the room is open to the kitchen, separated by a bar. This side extends all the way to the front of the house.

It is hard to calculate that space.

You can't cheat physics, and none of us can guess for you. A tape measure and Google is all you need. Figure out each space as it's own "box" and add them together.

My GreatRoom is over 8000'3 with a slanted ceiling that goes from 8 to 12'. I figured for the room with an 8' ceiling. then I treated the upper part as a 4'H room and divided by 2. I added that to the first figure. I then measured the Entry Room which is open to the Greatroom and added that in. Boom.

This is 10th grade Geometry.

I'm concerned with the long-game here.

...

...

...
And you still won't figure out how large your space is!

FWIW, I would rather have 2-3 JTRs than 2-3 Rythmiks.
They will both work... Unless you end up in a 10,000'3 room... and you know... they will still work. But unless you know the space, you can't judge the impact you are so focused on.

 

[Landmonster]

You can't cheat physics, and none of us can guess for you. A tape measure and Google is all you need. Figure out each space as it's own "box" and add them together.

My GreatRoom is over 8000'3 with a slanted ceiling that goes from 8 to 12'. I figured for the room with an 8' ceiling. then I treated the upper part as a 4'H room and divided by 2. I added that to the first figure. I then measured the Entry Room which is open to the Greatroom and added that in. Boom.

This is 10th grade Geometry.


...

...

...
And you still won't figure out how large your space is!

FWIW, I would rather have 2-3 JTRs than 2-3 Rythmiks.
They will both work... Unless you end up in a 10,000'3 room... and you know... they will still work. But unless you know the space, you can't judge the impact you are so focused on.

Thanks. I can do the math. I guess I'm asking, should I calculate all the area off to the left past the open bar?

That would entail my kitchen, dining room, and the front formal living area of house too? It is all technically without a full wall or closed-door separation. It's all 15 feet deep (front to back, same as the living area), probably 100 feet long, with 10-foot ceilings the whole way.

 

[Imureh]

Thanks. I can do the math. I guess I'm asking, should I calculate all the area off to the left past the open bar?

That would entail my kitchen, dining room, and the front formal living area of house too? It is all technically without a full wall or closed-door separation. It's all 15 feet deep (front to back, same as the living area), probably 100 feet long, with 10-foot ceilings the whole way.

If it’s not a sealed room then bass sees all that space. So I would add in any open space

 

[mazersteven]

Well there goes that small room of 15 x 16

 

[Imureh]

OTHER FORUM??? You Cheating Bastardo

I would disagree if I could.


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[mazersteven]

This is what I would do. If those two B stocks are still available that's what I grab

Two S3612. Look and perform as new. $2149 each or both for $3899.

Power Sound Audio B-Stock

B-Stock update (9-30-2020) One V1812. Looks and performs as new. $1449. Two S3612. Look and perform as new. $2149 each or both for $3899. support@powersoundaudio.com for any questions or to purchase. Tom V. Team Power.

forums.audioholics.com

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks. I can do the math. I guess I'm asking, should I calculate all the area off to the left past the open bar?

That would entail my kitchen, dining room, and the front formal living area of house too? It is all technically without a full wall or closed-door separation. It's all 15 feet deep (front to back, same as the living area), probably 100 feet long, with 10-foot ceilings the whole way.

Yes! This is what I've been trying to get you to understand!

Keep in mind that the open E on a Bass guitar, 41 Hz, is a 27.45' long wave. It don't give two sh!ts about that bar! 20Hz is 56.26' long, and if 41Hz doesn't care....

Your Main speakers are more concerned with distance from driver to you, and will for the most part operate more linear than a subwoofer. (Yes, at 40 Hz, the soundwave is still mostly omni-directional, but when it comes to determining SPL at your LP, it is linear distance from driver to you that matters most. Boundary reinforcement will have an effect, too, which in your case will be limited because it sounds like the actual space is much larger than you've let on previously.)
Subwoofers and the Low Frequency Waves they emit see the whole physical open space. If it isn't a wall with a sealed door, it might as well not exist. (Yes, this a a bit of hyperbole, but it is an important step to begin understanding the acoustics in you space.)

As I said earlier, you do not necessarily need to pressurize the WHOLE open room volume, but if impact is what you are after, this basic understanding of LF acoustics will help you make the right decision for your goals!