Receiver as external amp

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes. The second amp would be for surround rears and four heights. But from what you’re saying, it’s not going to make a difference in sound?


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The PC answer is always “it depends”. :D

But I would say for 99% of the cases out there, adding an amp isn’t going to improve your sound quality for channels.

Going semi-separates (AVR + amp) or totally separates (pre-pro + amp) is probably a matter of preference - more want than need.

All these measurement numbers (SINAD, SNR, THD, etc.) from any site is mainly academic. In real life, chances are, regardless of any numbers, you’re not going to be able to hear the difference among amps, AVR, AVP, etc., at least not in Direct modes.

However, all bets are off once you turn on EQ, DSP, and change the VOLUME.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would agree with you if he has easy to drive speakers, don't get close to reference level and sitting no further than 3-4 meters. Otherwise using an AVR with a 3 channel amp to drive the front left, center and right is not a bad idea. That is, spend the money on where it can benefit most, the front 3 channels. The preamp/processor+external power amp typically would cost much more because they do often go on big sales like AVRs do.
Adding an amp to your AVR later if the speakers need it is one thing. Nobody would debate that.

But I said “forget the pre-pro”, not “forget the amp”. :D

1. AVR w/o amp = okay
2. AVR w/ amp = okay
3. AVP + amp = okay
4. AVP + AVR = just say NO. :D
 
J

jameshtx

Enthusiast
You're trying to get better sound with a pre-pro because....you think AVR don't sound as good as pre-pro....but then you end up using an AVR anyway?

IMO, if you're using a pre-pro, then only use separate amps. Otherwise, just use your AVR and forget the pre-pro.
I was asking if using the avr as a second dedicated amp was possible but learned it’s not. My bad for confusion. I’m still new at this home theater stuff


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J

jameshtx

Enthusiast
Adding an amp to your AVR later if the speakers need it is one thing. Nobody would debate that.

But I said “forget the pre-pro”, not “forget the amp”. :D

1. AVR w/o amp = okay
2. AVR w/ amp = okay
3. AVP + amp = okay
4. AVP + AVR = just say NO. :D
Yes talk to me like a first grader pls!!!
I understand it more better lol


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J

jameshtx

Enthusiast
Since I don’t know much about home theater, like many others I get inspired by watching YouTube videos. I came across this one n made me decide to go separates



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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Since I don’t know much about home theater, like many others I get inspired by watching YouTube videos. I came across this one n made me decide to go separates



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Personally I find youtube videos the least helpful when it comes to audio....lots of people I wouldn't read let alone watch, especially annoying ones like youthman. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
like many others I get inspired by watching YouTube videos. I came across this one n made me decide to go separates
I’ve used Separates since I got into this hobby from the start almost 30 years ago. I still use separates for my main system and AVR for my 2nd system.

I started with an analog stereo preamp + analog amp. Then went to Analog Integrated amps. Then Pre-pros + Amps.

So I am definitely not saying you should not use separates.

By all means, if you want to use separates, go for it.

I am 100% on your side since I also use separates pre-pro + amps. :D

If possible, keep your AVR as a backup system. Never hurts to have a backup for everything in life.

Or you could list it on your local Craigslist to see if anyone wants to buy it. I have sold so many things on Craigslist. Reselling your equipment is almost part of this hobby.

Or use the AVR for a second system. For example, I use my Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR for my living room and my Yamaha CX-A5100 + MX-A5000 + ATI AT2005 for my main system.

Anyway, everything we say is mostly a matter of opinions and preferences. Nothing is carved in stone. We’re just sharing our thoughts. ;)
 
Last edited:
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Since I don’t know much about home theater

I came across this one n made me decide to go separates
You've stated this several times, we understand :rolleyes:

AVR vs. Separates IMO depends on your speakers.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Why, particularly? What about the speakers would distinguish them?
Here is an example. 7.1 system
I'll use the Canton Chrono 596.2 L/R, the Canton Chrono SL 556.2 Center, and 4 Canton 830.2

Nice system

Well I can't see running a $2000 Preamp/Processor like the Marantz 7705 plus $1500-$2000 amp on $4000 worth of Speakers w/ high sensitivity when a $1200 AVR like the Denon 4500 will do the job.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Here is an example. 7.1 system
I'll use the Canton Chrono 596.2 L/R, the Canton Chrono SL 556.2 Center, and 4 Canton 830.2

Nice system

Well I can't see running a $2000 Preamp/Processor like the Marantz 7705 plus $1500-$2000 amp on $4000 worth of Speakers w/ high sensitivity when a $1200 AVR like the Denon 4500 will do the job.
That really doesn't address my question, tho, altho I can appreciate your point. I think the choice of avr to pre-pro/amp combo has a couple different directions it can take over basic utility, tho.....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Adding an amp to your AVR later if the speakers need it is one thing. Nobody would debate that.

But I said “forget the pre-pro”, not “forget the amp”. :D

1. AVR w/o amp = okay
2. AVR w/ amp = okay
3. AVP + amp = okay
4. AVP + AVR = just say NO. :D
Sorry, I didn't know you were talking about 4.:p I still disagree with you NO answer, the correct answer should be NO NO..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Since I don’t know much about home theater, like many others I get inspired by watching YouTube videos. I came across this one n made me decide to go separates



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I think I am open minded, but after a while (years..) when I see something like that I wouldn't even click on it unless I was in the mood for free low end entertainment.

Subjective reviews, especially those kinds, are useless, waste of time.

We both know there are going to be a lot more people telling you getting a prepro+amp, or adding a bigger amp will get you better SQ, even night and day kind of better, than people who would tell you "no you won't", often with stated assumptions, and or based on available specs and measurements of the gear being compared.

So you have to choose believing subjective opinions/impressions, or objectively evaluated opinions. Subjective ones are practically impossible to prove, objective ones are scientific based, and are verifiable by measurements.

If you are in the subjective camp, you may not hear what you would like to hear from too many (there will be a few.) people here. I could be wrong..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Peng, I totally get what you're saying now. I had no idea that my 4300h & the 3500h had identical DAC n preamp. I'm going to focus on finding another dedicated amp for the other 6 channels and use my AVR-X4300h solely as preamp processor and see how that goes. I'm looking at the Outlaw Audio 7000x 7-channel amp. Price is very reasonable. I would love the Monolith 7x but its a grand more.
Since your original post/question seem to have evolved, so it may be time to tell us the following, for a more meaning ongoing discussion:

- What speakers for the L, C, R, surrounds, Atmos?
- Model number of the power amp(s) you are using.
- Your seating distance from the speakers, just approx. for now.
- How loud do you listen related to reference level? Are you familiar with the term "reference level", that is 85dB with 20 dB peak? It is probably about as loud as you would hear in a good cinema watching Star War movies.
- The noise floor of your room, or you don't know much about that, just tell us if you consider your room dead silent, quiet, very quiet, or somewhat noisy, enough that you wouldn't want to watch TV news with volume below -35 or so.., that is, you can hear a little background noise all the time.

With the above information, we should be able to provide you with more informed feedback, instead of very generalized response. As ADTG mentioned, it all depends.., you may in fact stand to gain going with an additional amp, or replace you current amp, or even benefit from a prepro, but not the AV7705 for sure.

By the way, you asked " isn’t Marantz the higher end of Denon? "

My impression is, since United Sound acquired both, their marketing seemed to have started to promote the notion that Marantz is tuned to favor "music".

To me, they clearly wanted to feed on the already existing myth that somehow Marantz has a "warm" sounding signature, while Denon has a "more neutral, impactful, punch" kind of sound signature. It is a smart move for them, if they want the Marantz brand to continue to thrive under the same umbrella. They obviously knew getting into it that Denon out sold Marantz by a significant margin so they had to do something to increase the profit margin on the Marantz products.

Other than that, take a look of the following and you decide if Marantz is higher end:D.


ADTG has that $7,500 Denon (a huge paper weight now I guess..:D, but it failed on him after only 8 years. My Marantz AV8801 costed me over $3K, outdate after two years. That's why ADTG now is happy with a $3,000 (I bet he paid less..) CX-A5100, and I went further, very happy with my $1,200 AVR-X4400H that is almost identical to your AVR-X4300H, and yes I used external amps, 3 of them to make up 11 channels.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Since your original post/question seem to have evolved, so it may be time to tell us the following, for a more meaning ongoing discussion:

- What speakers for the L, C, R, surrounds, Atmos?
- Model number of the power amp(s) you are using.
- Your seating distance from the speakers, just approx. for now.
- How loud do you listen related to reference level? Are you familiar with the term "reference level", that is 85dB with 20 dB peak? It is probably about as loud as you would hear in a good cinema watching Star War movies.
- The noise floor of your room, or you don't know much about that, just tell us if you consider your room dead silent, quiet, very quiet, or somewhat noisy, enough that you wouldn't want to watch TV news with volume below -35 or so.., that is, you can hear a little background noise all the time.

With the above information, we should be able to provide you with more informed feedback, instead of very generalized response. As ADTG mentioned, it all depends.., you may in fact stand to gain going with an additional amp, or replace you current amp, or even benefit from a prepro, but not the AV7705 for sure.

By the way, you asked " isn’t Marantz the higher end of Denon? "

My impression is, since United Sound acquired both, their marketing seemed to have started to promote the notion that Marantz is tuned to favor "music".

To me, they clearly wanted to feed on the already existing myth that somehow Marantz has a "warm" sounding signature, while Denon has a "more neutral, impactful, punch" kind of sound signature. It is a smart move for them, if they want the Marantz brand to continue to thrive under the same umbrella. They obviously knew getting into it that Denon out sold Marantz by a significant margin so they had to do something to increase the profit margin on the Marantz products.

Other than that, take a look of the following and you decide if Marantz is higher end:D.


ADTG has that $7,500 Denon (a huge paper weight now I guess..:D, but it failed on him after only 8 years. My Marantz AV8801 costed me over $3K, outdate after two years. That's why ADTG now is happy with a $3,000 (I bet he paid less..) CX-A5100, and I went further, very happy with my $1,200 AVR-X4400H that is almost identical to your AVR-X4300H, and yes I used external amps, 3 of them to make up 11 channels.
I don’t blame anyone for switching from AVP to AVR, especially if they can’t get big discounts.

Apparently we didn’t care too much about the prices of HT/audio back then. Perhaps the older we get, the more we care about it.

My decision to still use all separates (separates AVP, separates Amps, separates Subwoofers and Subwoofer Amps) is based on price and preference. I have absolutely zero doubt that my RX-A3080 AVR can power every 4-ohm speaker I own because the subwoofer cabinets are being powered by either the subwoofer amp or ATI amp.

So it’s not about “needing” more power or SQ. It’s about fulfilling my desire/preference for separates and being able to get good prices.
 
J

jameshtx

Enthusiast
Since your original post/question seem to have evolved, so it may be time to tell us the following, for a more meaning ongoing discussion:

- What speakers for the L, C, R, surrounds, Atmos?
- Model number of the power amp(s) you are using.
- Your seating distance from the speakers, just approx. for now.
- How loud do you listen related to reference level? Are you familiar with the term "reference level", that is 85dB with 20 dB peak? It is probably about as loud as you would hear in a good cinema watching Star War movies.
- The noise floor of your room, or you don't know much about that, just tell us if you consider your room dead silent, quiet, very quiet, or somewhat noisy, enough that you wouldn't want to watch TV news with volume below -35 or so.., that is, you can hear a little background noise all the time.

With the above information, we should be able to provide you with more informed feedback, instead of very generalized response. As ADTG mentioned, it all depends.., you may in fact stand to gain going with an additional amp, or replace you current amp, or even benefit from a prepro, but not the AV7705 for sure.

By the way, you asked " isn’t Marantz the higher end of Denon? "

My impression is, since United Sound acquired both, their marketing seemed to have started to promote the notion that Marantz is tuned to favor "music".

To me, they clearly wanted to feed on the already existing myth that somehow Marantz has a "warm" sounding signature, while Denon has a "more neutral, impactful, punch" kind of sound signature. It is a smart move for them, if they want the Marantz brand to continue to thrive under the same umbrella. They obviously knew getting into it that Denon out sold Marantz by a significant margin so they had to do something to increase the profit margin on the Marantz products.

Other than that, take a look of the following and you decide if Marantz is higher end:D.


ADTG has that $7,500 Denon (a huge paper weight now I guess..:D, but it failed on him after only 8 years. My Marantz AV8801 costed me over $3K, outdate after two years. That's why ADTG now is happy with a $3,000 (I bet he paid less..) CX-A5100, and I went further, very happy with my $1,200 AVR-X4400H that is almost identical to your AVR-X4300H, and yes I used external amps, 3 of them to make up 11 channels.
DT BP9080x front towers


DT CS9080 center


DT SR9080 Surrounds n Rear Surrounds


4 Monoprice 6.5 in ceiling Atmos

Monolith 5x amp

SVS PB-3000 x2

Sit 4-5 ft from front stage speakers

Not familiar with term “reference level”


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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
DT BP9080x front towers


DT CS9080 center


DT SR9080 Surrounds n Rear Surrounds


4 Monoprice 6.5 in ceiling Atmos

Monolith 5x amp

SVS PB-3000 x2

Sit 4-5 ft from front stage speakers

Not familiar with term “reference level”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
4 to 5 ft? You meant meters right?
 
J

jameshtx

Enthusiast
4 to 5 ft? You meant meters right?
No feet. And I measured 9-10 feet to be exact

The room is a dedicated media room if that makes a difference

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