Alternatives to the Marantz AV8805?

[70sMac]

I've been a member of another A/V/D forum for a couple of years and have received a lot of helpful posts to consider, but I'm beginning to think that, when it comes to reasonably-priced AVPs, I'm not exactly on their "higher" audio plane. That's not a knock against said other forum, I just think that their tastes are a bit more on the ultra-expensive side -- especially when it comes to stereo audio -- so I'm not getting a lot of input there when it comes to AVPs.

Nevertheless, I have received several recommendations for the Marantz AVPs and, specifically, the AV8805 and the AV7705. Earlier today, I received a vote -- from a guy I believe knows his stuff -- for the Anthem AVM60.

As we're presently in a new house, we've been researching everything necessary to set up a [modest] 5.1 surround system in a room that has been designated for that purpose. As long time Mac stereo equipment owners, we plan to continue using our Mac MX-130 Pre-Pro with our Mac MC-300 power amp for stereo listening, but we need a new "control center" to continue our A/V room planning around. We've also owned B&W 800-series speakers for many years, and have recently added a new B&W HTM3S as our fifth (center) speaker. Although it might seem strange to some that we're coming from Mac and B&W -- and are presently looking for a "reasonable" AVP -- I can assure you that the "Mac or nothing" days are well behind us. We're simply too old to keep up with that kind of nonsense; hence, the reason I'm here.

We will be using our old B&W 802s as fronts and our old B&W 805s as rears in our humble 5.1 system. We own an Oppo 105D player for a DAC, which presently feeds its audio output to our Mac MX-130. In closing, we are short an AVP and a multichannel amp...but I think that it's wise to make a decision on an AVP before going down the power amp path, so If anyone has thoughts on the Marantz or the Anthem AVP(s) I mentioned -- or other competitive brands/models -- I'd really love to read it.

Thanks for your time

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW the units you mention are not avrs but rather avp or pre-pros...avrs have amps built in. Yamaha is another possibility....

 

[70sMac]

FWIW the units you mention are not avrs but rather avp or pre-pros...avrs have amps built in. Yamaha is another possibility....

Thanks for picking up on that, Lovin' The HD. I was pretty tired when I wrote the OP, so I trust that you understand. Regardless, which Yamaha AVP is competitive with the AVPs I mentioned? I'd really appreciate it, if you would narrow it down a bit. Thanks for the post.

P.S. - Love the Dark Side avatar you're using...

 

[mazersteven]

W/ 3 Year Warranty

MARANTZ AV8805 13.2-Ch A/V Preamp/Processor w/HEOS

Marantz Factory Refurbished

www.accessories4less.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

which Yamaha AVP is competitive with the AVPs I mentioned?

For pre-pro and amp alternative, I would get the Yamaha CX-A5200 pre-pro and MX-A5200 amp.

I own the CX-A5100 and MX-A5000. Our leader Gene used to own these as well. Now I think Gene will be using all RBH amps with his RBH speakers and probably the very expensive Storm Audio pre-pro.

But IIRC, Gene said the Yamaha CX-A5100 was the best Pre-pro under $4,000.

Here is also a thread on Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem:

Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

It seems DM, Yamaha, and Anthem are the 3 big AVR heavyweights these days. I think a lot of newbies would love to get some perspective on these three brands. What are their pros and cons? If you have owned all three brands of AVR, your opinions would be greatly appreciated. If you have at...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@tealcomp is researching a similar question - Marantz AV8805 vs Yamaha CX-A5200 vs Denon X8500 vs Marantz SR8015 vs ?

Interestingly, he also has B&W speakers.

So he might share his thoughts on these options.

 

[tealcomp]

Thanks @AcuDefTechGuy happy to add my opinions to the mix

@70sMac Welcome to the forum! As ADTG mentioned, I too am on the hunt for a new replacement AVR or separates to replace my Yamaha DSP-A1. It provided 20 years of great service, so I have zero complaints. I also have quite a fondness for my B&W 805's ad HTM2. The following comments/recommendations are my own and are based on months of reading multiple forums dedicated to this hobby. For a "modest" system you are referring to, I think the Denon x3700H or X4700H are excellent choices if your care about HDMI 2.1 and if you do not have any interest in going above 4K, honestly the X3600H or X4500H series Denons (or their Marantz counterparts) would be nice as well. The very top end Denon AVR available right now is the X8500H and is a beast, but IMHO way more than you could reasonably need, capable of 13.2 channels by itself and with addition of an external amplifier, it can process a whopping 15.2 channels! Again, these are my own comments, and I am sure others might not agree with me. Having owned both Yamaha and Denon products, I can say both are quite good. As far as Yamaha is concerned, and again sticking soley with the AVR theme, the 2080 and 3080 series are quite nice, but you might have issues finding either, at least new. Something to keep in mind, ALL of these receivers I have mentioned are capable of far more than 5.1, so ask yourself if that is something you need? If you don't, then 5.1 "modest" systems are certainly available and less money. You didn't mention a budget, but for all of the items you brought up. those are what I would term more towards the higher end of the norm I see folks talking about daily. I hope this helps but happy to help with other suggestions if you can give me specifics around what you are after. One other thing to mention, I am on the fence with the AVR vs separates (what you were calling AVP I believe); my research suggests in most cases an AMP is overkill unless you just "want" one and that is certainly a reasonable response in my mind because this hobby is all about want versus need.

-Dan

 

[70sMac]

@AcuDefTechGuy ~ I'd love hear from TealComp, but, in the meantime, I'd like to open things up (here) in regards to the two Marantz AVPs I originally asked about.

We (my wife and I) are coming from a stereo mindset. The most we've ever done with more than two B&W 802s was place our B&W 805s on stands, amplify the pair with our MAC-4200's aux amp section, switch to Hall Mode on our Mac MX-130 and enjoy the delay between the fronts and the rears. Needless to say, this was/is a continuing experiment with stereo music...but the topic at bar here is decoding digital with our Oppo 105D, running it through an AVP and amplifying five channels with external amplifiers.

Before getting too far into the project, as a whole, however, we think that it's wise to settle on an AVP. As both the Marantz AV8805 and the AV7705 have been recommended to us far more than any other AVP, I'd like to ask the board for thoughts on the differences between these two units?

The price difference is fairly obvious, but what is it that one really gets for [roughly] twice the money?

Are the real differences only things that true hard-core home theater (HT) enthusiasts would appreciate?

I do understand that each unit is manufactured in a different country, but has that truly translated into better durability with one relative to the other?

Does the dialog enhancement circuitry included with the AV8805 amount to much?

Is the upgraded DAC in the AV8805 noticeable in any way?

I also understand that the AV8805 has a beefier power supply...how about thoughts on that?

In short, what is one getting with the Japanese unit (AV8805) versus the Chinese AVP (AV7705) and, in the end, is it significant enough to pay twice as much hard-earned for?

By the way, if anyone feels that there's another brand/model that blows these Marantz units out of the water, please feel free to spread the wealth. We are looking for information, warts and all.

Thanks for your time...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am on the fence with the AVR vs separates (what you were calling AVP I believe); my research suggests in most cases an AMP is overkill unless you just "want" one and that is certainly a reasonable response in my mind because this hobby is all about want versus need.

We also have plenty of threads on AVR vs Separates.

The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

...Anyone claiming to buy high end audio strictly for the sound isn’t being honest.. Well, I think some people do genuinely truly honestly believe that high-end separates do sound better than AVR. It may not be PROVEN scientifically, but they may honestly believe it.

forums.audioholics.com

I think AVR or Separates is perfectly fine. But I don't want to own what probably 99% of the world owns - AVR.

It's kind of the same reason I don't want to own subwoofers with built-in internal amps - probably 99% of audiophiles own these subs.

I want to be SPECIAL. Haha.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have had a Marantz 7705 in service for nearly a year. It had a few bugs for a while, but after a blizzard of Firmware updates, there have been no issues for the last several months. So I think they have it right now. I had a really good discount from my local B & M store that I have dealt with for 30 years or more. I consider it very good value for money. If you are not going for 7.2.6 the 7705 will be just fine. I'm running 7.2.4 and it is doing fine. Personally I'm highly adverse to receivers, and would never use one. All my three systems use Marantz pre/pros. I would avoid Anthem like the absolute plague.

I think with a 7705 and decent power amps you will be set.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy ~ I'd love hear from TealComp, but, in the meantime, I'd like to open things up (here) in regards to the two Marantz AVPs I originally asked about.

We (my wife and I) are coming from a stereo mindset. The most we've ever done with more than two B&W 802s was place our B&W 805s on stands, amplify the pair with our MAC-4200's aux amp section, switch to Hall Mode on our Mac MX-130 and enjoy the delay between the fronts and the rears. Needless to say, this was/is a continuing experiment with stereo music...but the topic at bar here is decoding digital with our Oppo 105D, running it through an AVP and amplifying five channels with external amplifiers.

Before getting too far into the project, as a whole, however, we think that it's wise to settle on an AVP. As both the Marantz AV8805 and the AV7705 have been recommended to us far more than any other AVP, I'd like to ask the board for thoughts on the differences between these two units?

The price difference is fairly obvious, but what is it that one really gets for [roughly] twice the money?

Are the real differences only things that true hard-core home theater (HT) enthusiasts would appreciate?

I do understand that each unit is manufactured in a different country, but has that truly translated into better durability with one relative to the other?

Does the dialog enhancement circuitry included with the AV8805 amount to much?

Is the upgraded DAC in the AV8805 noticeable in any way?

I also understand that the AV8805 has a beefier power supply...how about thoughts on that?

In short, what is one getting with the Japanese unit (AV8805) versus the Chinese AVP (AV7705) and, in the end, is it significant enough to pay twice as much hard-earned for?

By the way, if anyone feels that there's another brand/model that blows these Marantz units out of the water, please feel free to spread the wealth. We are looking for information, warts and all.

Thanks for your time...

Quickly - the Marantz AV8805 vs AV7705? Sound quality will be the same. Difference will be in built quality.

But there is no guarantee that the AV8805 will last longer than the AV7705. There is no guarantee that a unit from Japan or a unit that costs a lot more will last longer.

I used to own a WORKING Denon AVP-A1HDCI AVP. Now it's just a decor. It was and probably is the first and only fully-balanced from input-to-output AVP. It retailed $7500, built in Japan, and I thought it would last FOREVER.

Another AH member (Grassy from Australia) also bought the Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

Anyway, my $7500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI died after about 8 years. I think Grassy also said his Denon AVP-A1HDCi died after about 8 years.

To make a long story short, I switched to Yamaha after many years of owning Denon/Marantz products.

I think the consensus is that if you are going to get a Marantz AVP, it would be the AV8805, not the AV7705.

IMO, the Yamaha CX-A5200 would be considered by many people to be better built than the AV7705.

So I think it comes down to the Marantz AV8805 vs Yamaha CX-A5200 vs Anthem AVM-60 for AVP in this price class. That's one reason I started the thread on D/M vs Yamaha vs Anthem.

I think all three brands will provide the same great SOUND QUALITY.

So for me, the biggest difference is Reliability, HDMI Compatibility, WiFi Remote Apps, Streaming Apps, and Customer Service, which was discussed in that thread about D/M vs Yamaha vs Anthem.

 

[70sMac]

....I think the consensus is that if you are going to get a Marantz AVP, it would be the AV8805, not the AV7705.

IMO, the Yamaha CX-A5200 would be considered by many people to be better built than the AV7705.

So I think it comes down to the Marantz AV8805 vs Yamaha CX-A5200 vs Anthem AVM-60 for AVP in this price class. That's one reason I started the thread on D/M vs Yamaha vs Anthem.

I think all three brands will provide the same great SOUND QUALITY.

So for me, the biggest difference is Reliability, HDMI Compatibility, WiFi Remote Apps, Streaming Apps, and Customer Service, which was discussed in that thread about D/M vs Yamaha vs Anthem.

@AcuDefTechGuy ~ Am I to understand that -- when it comes to reliability (see bolded excerpt) -- you like Yamaha over the Marantz and the Anthem AVPs?

if so, are you also stating that the HDMI compatibilty and the Customer Service one gets with purchasing the Yamaha brand is superior to the other brands?

Will you please elaborate on the HDMI compatibility aspect of this thread's topic?

 

[tealcomp]

We also have plenty of threads on AVR vs Separates.

The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

...Anyone claiming to buy high end audio strictly for the sound isn’t being honest.. Well, I think some people do genuinely truly honestly believe that high-end separates do sound better than AVR. It may not be PROVEN scientifically, but they may honestly believe it.

forums.audioholics.com

I think AVR or Separates is perfectly fine. But I don't want to own what probably 99% of the world owns - AVR.

It's kind of the same reason I don't want to own subwoofers with built-in internal amps - probably 99% of audiophiles own these subs.

I want to be SPECIAL. Haha.

So that's why lol

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So that's why lol

Hey, numbers are cool and all that, but feelings are important too.

 

[70sMac]

I have had a Marantz 7705 in service for nearly a year. It had a few bugs for a while, but after a blizzard of Firmware updates, there have been no issues for the last several months. So I think they have it right now. I had a really good discount from my local B & M store that I have dealt with for 30 years or more. I consider it very good value for money. If you are not going for 7.2.6 the 7705 will be just fine. I'm running 7.2.4 and it is doing fine. Personally I'm highly adverse to receivers, and would never use one. All my three systems use Marantz pre/pros. I would avoid Anthem like the absolute plague.

I think with a 7705 and decent power amps you will be set.

@TLS Guy ~ I just went through the series of photos depicting your studio - Wow! I was particularly interested in your electronics bench. I have a background in Electrical Metrology, so seeing your distortion analyzer, your sig gen and your o'scope brought me back to my years in the calibration and repair labs I used to haunt. I was also interested in the open amps I saw -- the ones with the huge toroid xfmrs. Which brand/model are they?

Thanks for sharing...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy ~ Am I to understand that -- when it comes to reliability (see bolded excerpt) -- you like Yamaha over the Marantz and the Anthem AVPs?

if so, are you also stating that the HDMI compatibilty and the Customer Service one gets with purchasing the Yamaha brand is superior to the other brands?

Will you please elaborate on the HDMI compatibility aspect of this thread's topic?

There is no guarantee in life that Yamaha will be 100% more reliable.

People have said they owned Denon/Marantz that lasted 15 years.

But based on what other dealers have experienced and my own experiences, I would recommend Yamaha to my mom and dad.

With HDMI compatibility, same here. Based on what some other dealers have experienced and my own experience, I think Yamaha seem to have better compatibility.

The Yamaha WiFi Remote App is 100% better than the Denon/Marantz remote app.

And for my house (I have the AT&T Fiberoptic 1 Gbps Internet), the Yamaha music WiFi streaming works much better for me.

But as they say, YMMV.

 

[tealcomp]

@TLS Guy ~ I just went through the series of photos depicting your studio - Wow! I was particularly interested in your electronics bench. I have a background in Electrical Metrology, so seeing your distortion analyzer, your sig gen and your o'scope brought me back to my years in the calibration and repair labs I used to haunt. I was also interested in the open amps I saw -- the ones with the huge toroid xfmrs. Which brand/model are they?

Thanks for sharing...

@TLS Guy I have a similar question; what brand of reel to reel decks are those, Otari, Teac, something other?

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy I have a similar question; what brand of reel to reel decks are those, Otari, Teac, something other?

I need to update the photos.

The one you looked at were from my old room on Benedict lake MN. We built a house last year and moved in last October, so I got a chance to build a bigger studio, now 7.2.4.

So the reel to reel tape decks from front to back are a follows.

Studer Revox A 700 which I have owned since new. It has dbx I in the rack. In the other pictures you will note another which is in the back of the room, which is an "heir and a spare" so to speak.

There is a Revox A77 Mk1 hidden by the chair which was a restoration from a wreck. It is 15/7.5 ips two track. It came out of a radio station in Alabama. Above that is a very rare Brenell Mk VI with the parabolic head. It is 15/7.5/3.75 ips machine it is 2 track by also has a four track play back head. These were made for the BBC. I persuaded them to build me a bespoke machine to my specs.

The next is a Revox A77 Mk II. This is a restoration. It came out of a high school in the Twin Cities. It is 15/7.5 ips two track. The other is a nice Revox A77 Mk IV. I bought it non working from Colorado. It is 7.5/3.75 four track and has external Dolby B and dbx II available.

Studer Revox made really good machines. Herr Willi Studer was the only guy who could design heads with full response to 20 Hz. In fact that had a very slightly elevated response at 20 Hz. Since Studer machines really set the industry standard, you can hear it on older analog recordings which gives the deep bass a slight extra warm lift. I can often tell a recording was made on a Studer machine, and at least in the classical arena, most were.

Other recording devices, are an early digital PCM F1 rig, a DAT, and what is used now a DAW with RME and WaveLab 9 pro. There are a couple of cassette machine, NAK and TEAC pro units.

The amp you spoke about is a Quad 909.

Seven of them plus two Quad 405-2s power this studio, delivering 3,200 watts all channels driven. The fronts are triamped, and the center and rear backs, actively biamped. The 405-2 amps power the ceiling speakers.

Hopefully that has answered your questions.

 

[tealcomp]

I am very impressed with that room I now know what I want to play with when I retire. So I grew up in the age of planetariums where they also did rock concerts. I was very fortunate to see first hand what high quality audio looked like. For those that think analog couldn't cut the mustard with digital...well I am here to say some of those Otari decks they used to mix music were phenomenal! I wish I still had my dad's Teac reel to reel; not that I would know how to use it mind you, but a collectors piece from the yonder years before digital Thanks for sharing.

 

[70sMac]

I am very impressed with that room I now know what I want to play with when I retire. So I grew up in the age of planetariums where they also did rock concerts. I was very fortunate to see first hand what high quality audio looked like. For those that think analog couldn't cut the mustard with digital...well I am here to say some of those Otari decks they used to mix music were phenomenal! I wish I still had my dad's Teac reel to reel; not that I would know how to use it mind you, but a collectors piece from the yonder years before digital Thanks for sharing.

Yes, I recall hearing the "new" Yes 90125 album in a planetarium just outside of Denver back in the early-80s. I also recall my first significant experience with a reel-to-reel. It was in the late-70s and it involved a Teac unit and a Mac MAC-4100 (set up outdoors). Man, the Marshall Tucker coming out of those towering Altec-Lansing monitors sounded fantastic by any standards! One thing about music that hasn't changed: the final amplified product is analog!