Unraveling of America? Is the decline of our "empire" a given at this point?

[Alex2507]

I have no clue what you’re trying to infer

He's saying Trump, Epstein and ole what's her name that Trump "wishes well" are all cut from the same unholy cloth. Let me know if you need anything else explained.

 

[Auditor55]

What evidence is there that Netflix is supporting human trafficking?
One problem is there are a lot of smear campaigns going on and I worry that something like this is the result of a conspiracy theory promoted by someone who does not like Netflix.
Social media seems to allow for any plausible conspiracy theory to go viral (if it is exciting/upsetting enough) without ever being held to any standard of accuracy!


No worries, I'm right there with you lol!

I don't think there's probably any direct evidence to cite to you at this time. However, Netflix has been recently involved with the promotion of some sexually explicit content involving preteen girls, of such that would have a reasonable people suspect that they could be capable of such activities.

Netflix apologizes for inappropriate "Cuties" poster amid outrage over sexualizing children

An online petition to get the film removed from Netflix has earned over 35,000 signatures and counting

www.salon.com

Netflix has issued a statement apologizing for the marketing around its upcoming original film "Cuties," directed by French filmmaker Maïmouna Doucouré. The movie world premiered at the 2020 Sundance Film Festival, where it won the World Cinema Dramatic Directing Award and earned Doucouré a spot on IndieWire's annual list of rising women directors to know. Netflix received backlash over the film after it debuted a poster for the film August 18 that many believed sexualized children

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm not buying this argument, Kurt. As I've said in other posts, in my lifetime the US has always appeared to be screwed up and unprepared. We've always been divided, IMO more so in the past than in the present. We've always done dumb things, like various little wars we waste our wealth on and never win, at least not since Korea in the 1950s. We were so unprepared and complacent before 9/11. We weren't even prepared for Pearl Harbor. The Japanese could have overrun the entire west coast, probably to the Rockies, if they had only known how defenseless we were. In the 1980s I was working in the computer industry and in the fear that Japan would overtake us technologically and economically, with their 5th Generation Computing initiative, their analog HDTV, and their auto industry. So much for any of those problems. There were race riots in the 1960s and the 1990s. (I was in LA after the Rodney King incident.) Or perhaps the Energy Crisis of the 1970s (remember, it was capitalized), we would bankrupt ourselves paying OPEC countries and Peak Oil (remember Peak Oil?) meant there was no going back. Last year the US was largest oil producer in the world, and not by a little bit. Nixon having to resign from the presidency? The high inflation of the early 1980s? (I remember having a 13% mortgage, and the economy was a mess.) Clinton being impeached. The dot-com bubble. The financial system on the verge of collapse in 2008. The controversy over the outcome of the presidential election between Bush and Gore, and officials were examining and arguing over "chad". And through it all the bigotry and prejudice between ethnic groups, racial groups, religious groups, gays... it's been disgusting for... forever, as far as I'm concerned. I grew up in place where people talked about "mixed marriages". They were a white Catholic and a white Protestant. So stupid. I remember social clubs that didn't allow Catholics or Jews to join, never mind blacks or anyone with anything but white skin, or Muslims and Hindus.

The US I see now is not at its best, not even close, but nowhere near its worst. Economically we had it easy after WWII because everyone else had their infrastructure destroyed, and Asia lacked skills and training. Now we have competition, sometimes superior competition. Labor is cheaper overseas and sometimes more capable, and there's less government regulation. What a surprise. And the US is more diverse now than it was when I was growing up, which is bound to increase tensions. Should we be like France and try to demand cultural assimilation? What other country has ever tried diversity at the level we have? None I can think of. We are a mess, but I think we've always been a mess. And then we come out of it, surprisingly sometimes. I still think we will this time too.

 

[TankTop5]

I don't think there's probably any direct evidence to cite to you at this time. However, Netflix has been recently involved with the promotion of some sexually explicit content involving preteen girls, of such that would have a reasonable people suspect that they could be capable of such activities.

View attachment 39606

Netflix apologizes for inappropriate "Cuties" poster amid outrage over sexualizing children

An online petition to get the film removed from Netflix has earned over 35,000 signatures and counting

www.salon.com

Netflix has issued a statement apologizing for the marketing around its upcoming original film "Cuties," directed by French filmmaker Maïmouna Doucouré. The movie world premiered at the 2020 Sundance Film Festival, where it won the World Cinema Dramatic Directing Award and earned Doucouré a spot on IndieWire's annual list of rising women directors to know. Netflix received backlash over the film after it debuted a poster for the film August 18 that many believed sexualized children

Correct, Netflix is funding production of these films with sexually explicit materiel of minors. The movie Cuties was based on a true story but in real life one of the moms was arrested for child sex trafficking and 120 people involved wrote to Netflix requesting they take down the movie. The true story was horrific and Netflix is spinning I to a cute coming of age movie. There are other movies Netflix has worked on and more in the works that are worse.
I did not intend to highjack this thread, my apologies. I thought I would interject how some good American ex soldiers are taking down some of the worst child sexually trafficking individuals inside America and around the world. I thought that would be something we could all agree to where we may find difficulty agreeing in other areas.

 

[Ponzio]

Well, when I'm chilling on my Wayfair living room set, I do seem to gravitate more towards Netflix than other streaming services.

Now I've heard it all.

And I thought I was goofy.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Anyone who has a problem with Cuties ought to be out there protesting the outfits American mothers send their girls to dance class wearing... hell, what they send them to grade school wearing. Exploitation of the female body starts really freaking young, and this trend far predates Netflix.

We go to christmas parades most years, and sometimes I'm appalled by what some 12 and under girls are wearing as they march down the road.

 

[its phillip]

Correct, Netflix is funding production of these films with sexually explicit materiel of minors. The movie Cuties was based on a true story but in real life one of the moms was arrested for child sex trafficking and 120 people involved wrote to Netflix requesting they take down the movie. The true story was horrific and Netflix is spinning I to a cute coming of age movie. There are other movies Netflix has worked on and more in the works that are worse.
I did not intend to highjack this thread, my apologies. I thought I would interject how some good American ex soldiers are taking down some of the worst child sexually trafficking individuals inside America and around the world. I thought that would be something we could all agree to where we may find difficulty agreeing in other areas.

The film wasn’t funded or produced by Netflix. They acquired distribution rights and obviously screwed up the marketing.

Cuties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Obviously human trafficking is a global problem and needs to be eradicated along with other horrible things...but you really need to get your facts straight.

 

[panteragstk]

I'm not buying this argument, Kurt. As I've said in other posts, in my lifetime the US has always appeared to be screwed up and unprepared. We've always been divided, IMO more so in the past than in the present. We've always done dumb things, like various little wars we waste our wealth on and never win, at least not since Korea in the 1950s. We were so unprepared and complacent before 9/11. We weren't even prepared for Pearl Harbor. The Japanese could have overrun the entire west coast, probably to the Rockies, if they had only known how defenseless we were. In the 1980s I was working in the computer industry and in the fear that Japan would overtake us technologically and economically, with their 5th Generation Computing initiative, their analog HDTV, and their auto industry. So much for any of those problems. There were race riots in the 1960s and the 1990s. (I was in LA after the Rodney King incident.) Or perhaps the Energy Crisis of the 1970s (remember, it was capitalized), we would bankrupt ourselves paying OPEC countries and Peak Oil (remember Peak Oil?) meant there was no going back. Last year the US was largest oil producer in the world, and not by a little bit. Nixon having to resign from the presidency? The high inflation of the early 1980s? (I remember having a 13% mortgage, and the economy was a mess.) Clinton being impeached. The dot-com bubble. The financial system on the verge of collapse in 2008. The controversy over the outcome of the presidential election between Bush and Gore, and officials were examining and arguing over "chad". And through it all the bigotry and prejudice between ethnic groups, racial groups, religious groups, gays... it's been disgusting for... forever, as far as I'm concerned. I grew up in place where people talked about "mixed marriages". They were a white Catholic and a white Protestant. So stupid. I remember social clubs that didn't allow Catholics or Jews to join, never mind blacks or anyone with anything but white skin, or Muslims and Hindus.

The US I see now is not at its best, not even close, but nowhere near its worst. Economically we had it easy after WWII because everyone else had their infrastructure destroyed, and Asia lacked skills and training. Now we have competition, sometimes superior competition. Labor is cheaper overseas and sometimes more capable, and there's less government regulation. What a surprise. And the US is more diverse now than it was when I was growing up, which is bound to increase tensions. Should we be like France and try to demand cultural assimilation? What other country has ever tried diversity at the level we have? None I can think of. We are a mess, but I think we've always been a mess. And then we come out of it, surprisingly sometimes. I still think we will this time too.

People focused on the now tend to forget the past. You put things into perspective quite well.

However, things should be better than they are given what we should have learned from the past. Should being the key word.

 

[Irvrobinson]

...things should be better than they are given what we should have learned from the past. Should being the key word.

No argument with that.

 

[Ponzio]

As the famous Chinese curse goes, may you live in interesting times.

 

[KEW]

I'm not buying this argument, Kurt. As I've said in other posts, in my lifetime the US has always appeared to be screwed up and unprepared. We've always been divided, IMO more so in the past than in the present. We've always done dumb things, like various little wars we waste our wealth on and never win, at least not since Korea in the 1950s. We were so unprepared and complacent before 9/11. We weren't even prepared for Pearl Harbor. The Japanese could have overrun the entire west cost, probably to the Rockies, if they had only known how defenseless we were. In the 1980s I was working in the computer industry and in the fear that Japan would overtake us technologically and economically, with their 5th Generation Computing initiative, their analog HDTV, and their auto industry. So much for any of those problems. There were race riots in the 1960s and the 1990s. (I was in LA after the Rodney King incident.) Or perhaps the Energy Crisis of the 1970s (remember, it was capitalized), we would bankrupt ourselves paying OPEC countries and Peak Oil (remember Peak Oil?) meant there was no going back. Last year the US was largest oil producer in the world, and not by a little bit. Nixon having to resign from presidency? The high inflation of the early 1980s? (I remember having a 13% mortgage, and the economy was a mess.) Clinton being impeached. The dot-com bubble. The financial system on the verge of collapse in 2008. The controversy over the outcome of the presidential election between Bush and Gore, and officials were examining and arguing over "chad". And through it all the bigotry and prejudice between ethnic groups, racial groups, religious groups, gays... it's been disgusting for... forever, as far as I'm concerned. I grew up in place where people talked about "mixed marriages". They were a white Catholic and a white Protestant. So stupid. I remember social clubs that didn't allow Catholics or Jews to join, never mind blacks or anyone with anything but white skin, or Muslims and Hindus.

The US I see now is not as its best, not even close, but nowhere near its worst. Economically we had it easy after WWII because everyone else had their infrastructure destroyed, and Asia lacked skills and training. Now we have competition, sometimes superior competition. Labor is cheaper overseas and sometimes more capable, and there's less government regulation. What a surprise. And the US is more diverse now than it was when I was growing up, which is bound to increase tensions. Should we be like France and try to demand cultural assimilation? What other country has ever tried diversity at the level we have? None I can think of. We are a mess, but I think we've always been a mess. And then we come out of it, surprisingly sometimes. I still think we will this time too.

Thanks.
Some good food for thought!
I'm not so convinced either way ... more in the "pay attention and see" camp.
Of course the author does not maintain that it is a done deal. I like his analogy of "holding up a mirror" in an intervention (as an effort to prevent/forestall).
I guess I see two things that are farther askew than I can ever remember!
I don't know that the minimum wage has ever been so far from a reasonable living wage. $7.25 works out to $15,288 which is ridiculous short of a living wage for anyone who is putting in honest 40 hour weeks of labor.
The second is the level of political contempt/tribalism. I have never seen a time where an important health issue such as preventative measures against Covid 19 has become so politicized. I see this at its worst where I believe Trump has made decisions that risk the health of the public in order to further his own political agenda. It is not really that Trump is doing this but that the anger/fear (?) of his base is so great as to be oblivious to the reality. Trump's own observation that he could shoot someone on 5th street and they would still follow him perfectly exemplifies this. I have never seen such blind allegiance to a political leader, and maybe it is my lack of ability to relate to it that makes the prospect of the US unraveling viable!?

 

[Ponzio]

Our looming battle with China, economically and militarily, will be telling.

I liken it to the Japanese threat of the late 1930’s. China is a nationalist country starving for oil and minerals, and if it’s not stopped in the South China Sea we will lose access to the largest economic market of the future, reducing us to 2nd world power status, like Europe and Russia.

Why we dropped out of The Trans-Pacific Partnership is beyond me and only emboldens China.

Throw in our insistence that the ASEAN countries/treaty nations (Australia, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, etc.) bear the bulk of their self-defense against China/North Korea is short-sighted at best and downright dangerous/stupid long-term.

And now they’re throwing their weight around Africa, where more future oil and minerals beckon. Many scientists believe the untapped potential (oil, mineral, cheap labor) of the continent has been overlooked because of the unwieldy governments; who are susceptible to corruption, civil wars and where contracts/treaties mean nothing.

Being a world power on the cheap, or being callous to their ills, doesn’t work; just ask the Russians or the Europeans. Isolationism may be on vogue right now but it doesn’t work, and never has, and is especially dangerous now, with trans-global economies and the internet, as the British are about to find out.

Nothing is inevitable unless we concede, wittingly or unwittingly, to our enemies. Most if not all empires rot from within, that’s why these seem to be precarious times for US more so than in the past and we need all the friends we can get our hands on.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Our looming battle with China, economically and militarily, will be telling.

I liken it to the Japanese threat of the late 1930’s. China is a nationalist country starving for oil and minerals, and if it’s not stopped in the South China Sea we will lose access to the largest economic market of the future, reducing us to 2nd world power status, like Europe and Russia.

Why we dropped out of The Trans-Pacific Partnership is beyond me and only emboldens China.

Throw in our insistence that the ASEAN countries/treaty nations (Australia, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, etc.) bear the bulk of their self-defense against China/North Korea is short-sighted at best and downright dangerous/stupid long-term.

And now they’re throwing their weight around Africa, where more future oil and minerals beckon. Many scientists believe the untapped potential (oil, mineral, cheap labor) of the continent has been overlooked because of the unwieldy governments; who are susceptible to corruption, civil wars and where contracts/treaties mean nothing.

Being a world power on the cheap, or being callous to their ills, doesn’t work; just ask the Russians or the Europeans. Isolationism may be on vogue right now but it doesn’t work, and never has, and is especially dangerous now, with trans-global economies and the internet, as the British are about to find out.

Nothing is inevitable unless we concede, wittingly or unwittingly, to our enemies. Most if not all empires rot from within, that’s why these seem to be precarious times for US more so than in the past and we need all the friends we can get our hands on.

Because, you know who is listening to the wrong people, or not listening at all. What can we expect from the person who thinks the originating country pays the tariffs, not the receiving country.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Correct, Netflix is funding production of these films with sexually explicit materiel of minors. The movie Cuties was based on a true story but in real life one of the moms was arrested for child sex trafficking and 120 people involved wrote to Netflix requesting they take down the movie. The true story was horrific and Netflix is spinning I to a cute coming of age movie. There are other movies Netflix has worked on and more in the works that are worse.
I did not intend to highjack this thread, my apologies. I thought I would interject how some good American ex soldiers are taking down some of the worst child sexually trafficking individuals inside America and around the world. I thought that would be something we could all agree to where we may find difficulty agreeing in other areas.

No apology needed. I appreciate what you are doing in that respect.
But, how is Netflix in the trafficking business when it is based on a true story?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't know that the minimum wage has ever been so far from a reasonable living wage. $7.25 works out to $15,288 which is ridiculous short of a living wage for anyone who is putting in honest 40 hour weeks of labor.

The federal Minimum Wage was never intended to be a "living wage". It was established under great controversy in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. The way the law is written it applies to teenagers gathering shopping carts as much as it does people who live independently. Raising the minimum wage to $12-$15/hour has effectively reduced opportunities available to youths, which isn't a good thing. Amazon warehouse workers earn a minimum $15/hr plus healthcare benefits, and a 401K plan with a 50% match; one of the reasons why I admire Amazon as a company.

The second is the level of political contempt/tribalism. I have never seen a time where an important health issue such as preventative measures against Covid 19 has become so politicized. I see this at its worst where I believe Trump has made decisions that risk the health of the public in order to further his own political agenda. It is not really that Trump is doing this but that the anger/fear (?) of his base is so great as to be oblivious to the reality. Trump's own observation that he could shoot someone on 5th street and they would still follow him perfectly exemplifies this. I have never seen such blind allegiance to a political leader, and maybe it is my lack of ability to relate to it that makes the prospect of the US unraveling viable!?

I can't explain Trump or his supporters, and I won't try. I'm just hoping that Biden stays enough of a moderate to get Trump out of the White House.

 

[Beave]

Well, when I'm chilling on my Wayfair living room set, I do seem to gravitate more towards Netflix than other streaming services.

So the logic of the people who thought this indicated sex trafficking is/was as follows:

This particular item seems highly overpriced; therefore, they must be using it as a front to sell child sex slaves.

That's a truly fascinating leap to conclusions.

On an audio-related note, maybe we should turn loose these conspiracy minded people on 'high end' audio cable companies:

Shuny@ta power cords are highly overpriced; therefore, Shuny@ta must be using them as a front to sell child sex slaves.

The ensuing sh!tstorm would be hilarious.

 

[Swerd]

I'm not buying this argument, Kurt. As I've said in other posts, in my lifetime the US has always appeared to be screwed up and unprepared. We've always been divided, IMO more so in the past than in the present. We've always done dumb things, like various little wars we waste our wealth on and never win, at least not since Korea in the 1950s. We were so unprepared and complacent before 9/11. We weren't even prepared for Pearl Harbor. The Japanese could have overrun the entire west coast, probably to the Rockies, if they had only known how defenseless we were. In the 1980s I was working in the computer industry and in the fear that Japan would overtake us technologically and economically, with their 5th Generation Computing initiative, their analog HDTV, and their auto industry. So much for any of those problems. There were race riots in the 1960s and the 1990s. (I was in LA after the Rodney King incident.) Or perhaps the Energy Crisis of the 1970s (remember, it was capitalized), we would bankrupt ourselves paying OPEC countries and Peak Oil (remember Peak Oil?) meant there was no going back. Last year the US was largest oil producer in the world, and not by a little bit. Nixon having to resign from the presidency? The high inflation of the early 1980s? (I remember having a 13% mortgage, and the economy was a mess.) Clinton being impeached. The dot-com bubble. The financial system on the verge of collapse in 2008. The controversy over the outcome of the presidential election between Bush and Gore, and officials were examining and arguing over "chad". And through it all the bigotry and prejudice between ethnic groups, racial groups, religious groups, gays... it's been disgusting for... forever, as far as I'm concerned. I grew up in place where people talked about "mixed marriages". They were a white Catholic and a white Protestant. So stupid. I remember social clubs that didn't allow Catholics or Jews to join, never mind blacks or anyone with anything but white skin, or Muslims and Hindus.

The US I see now is not at its best, not even close, but nowhere near its worst. Economically we had it easy after WWII because everyone else had their infrastructure destroyed, and Asia lacked skills and training. Now we have competition, sometimes superior competition. Labor is cheaper overseas and sometimes more capable, and there's less government regulation. What a surprise. And the US is more diverse now than it was when I was growing up, which is bound to increase tensions. Should we be like France and try to demand cultural assimilation? What other country has ever tried diversity at the level we have? None I can think of. We are a mess, but I think we've always been a mess. And then we come out of it, surprisingly sometimes. I still think we will this time too.

Good post. I agree with most of what you said.

I do have one minor quibble with one of your statements, even though it's not related to your main point.

We weren't even prepared for Pearl Harbor. The Japanese could have overrun the entire west coast, probably to the Rockies, if they had only known how defenseless we were.

We were not prepared for an attack directly on Pearl Harbor. That much is true.

In the weeks & months after Pearl Harbor, there was wide-spread fear and panic in Hawaii and the US West Coast about being invaded by Japan. It was entirely unwarranted. Japan neither had the ability nor the intention to capture them. Much of Japan's military focus was on Manchuria and China. About 90% of it's Army was already there. The attack on Pearl Harbor was only made as an effort to disable the US Navy in the Pacific, and to persuade us to stay away from their efforts in Asia.

Japan did intend to overrun China & Southeast Asia for food supplies, rubber from French Indochina, and oil from Dutch Indonesia. Barely enough shipping existed in Japan to move those materials to the Japanese home islands. There was nowhere near enough shipping to move and supply invasion forces from mainland Asia across the Pacific to Hawaii, much less to California.

We (at least the US Navy) had prepared for a war against Japan. Those plans provided the general outline for how we did proceed in the war in the Pacific.

 

[TankTop5]

No apology needed. I appreciate what you are doing in that respect.
But, how is Netflix in the trafficking business when it is based on a true story?

I miss stated that Netflix funded the movie but they did but the rights to market it. The true story is horrific and one of the parents participated in trafficking girls around the age of 11. In some sick way someone thought it a good idea to paint it as a coming of age tale, Netflix is aware of the facts and is still going to carry it.
Imagine your 11 year old got caught up in sex trafficking and someone made a movie about it as a sexy coming of age flick, you’d loose your marbles! This is really sick that this is even a conversation.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I do have one minor quibble with one of your statements, even though it's not related to your main point.
We were not prepared for an attack directly on Pearl Harbor. That much is true.

In the weeks & months after Pearl Harbor, there was wide-spread fear and panic in Hawaii and the US West Coast about being invaded by Japan. It was entirely unwarranted. Japan neither had the ability nor the intention to capture them. Much of Japan's military focus was on Manchuria and China. About 90% of it's Army was already there. The attack on Pearl Harbor was only made as an effort to disable the US Navy in the Pacific, and to persuade us to stay away from their efforts in Asia.

Japan did intend to overrun China & Southeast Asia for food supplies, rubber from French Indochina, and oil from Dutch Indonesia. Barely enough shipping existed in Japan to move those materials to the Japanese home islands. There was nowhere near enough shipping to move and supply invasion forces from mainland Asia across the Pacific to Hawaii, much less to California.

We (at least the US Navy) had prepared for a war against Japan. Those plans provided the general outline for how we did proceed in the war in the Pacific.

I don't know what Japan intended, but the west coast was nearly undefended, especially against aircraft and submarines. I used to live in San Diego, and I've seen the fortifications now in the Cabrillo National Monument. Very unimpressive, even by WWII standards. And as if to prove the point, I remember being in Santa Barbara and seeing some sort of an information monument about The Bombardment of Ellwood. Not very effective at anything but scaring the locals, but an indicator of how lucky we were that the Japanese were really in no position to invade.

 

[Ponzio]

Japanese Navy Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who planned & directed the attack on Pearl Harbor, warned Tojo and his nationalist cabinet, who held sway in the government at that time, that an attack on Pearl Harbor was a fool’s errand, plus there was some personal animosity between the two, but he was overruled. Hideki Tojo was a general in the Japanese Army before becoming the Prime Minister and represented their interests.

They were all convinced the US would retreat to the mainland, giving them a free hand in Asia, and viewed the strong isolationist sentiments in the USA favorably. Yamamoto warned them that they would ‘awaken a sleeping serpent’ if attacked. He was viewed as a defeatist, not taking into account that he had spent time in the US, at Harvard University, from 1919 to 1921, and as a naval attaché in Washington, DC. He spoke fluent English and traveled extensively here before returning home in 1928.

Fascinating character and whip smart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto

The impressive Japanese victory over the Russians in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/1905 was still fresh in their minds, combined with their urgent need for oil, to maintain the momentum of the Chinese/Asian land invasions, and then they made the tactical error of attacking us.

The greatest protection this country has is geographically; with the Atlantic and Pacific oceans on each side, and blessed with rich farmlands, navigable rivers, oil and minerals.

And just as important is we’re a nation of immigrants or children of former immigrants who’ve taken a shine to democracy. As long as we remember that and don’t lazily give up those freedoms, no one can defeat us.

The ball is in our court. What are we going to do with it is the question.