What should I upgrade and how? $5k budget

[Inflex]

Originally budgeted $5k for a new 4k projector this year, but decided that the current projector selection doesn't make for a right upgrade for my HT at this time. So, that frees up some budget to upgrade my audio system instead.

Over the past decade or so I've collected and compiled vintage audio gear into a HT setup, with the primary consideration being price-value. I figured I would get "a lot" of enjoyment out of low-cost, used gear without worrying about creating an exacting "audiophile" setup. I willing to break from this philosophy with my available budget, but the question in my mind is "should I" as in "will I really hear a difference?" Primary source material will be blu-ray (eventually 4k) movies and occasionally classical, jazz, or swing CDs.

Here's what I have:
13x15 room with the "front" on the 13' wall (other orientation just didn't work out with the door location). I've installed a bunch of panels of mineral wool insulation along the sides and back to cut down on reflections.
4 Klipsch Cornwalls, one at each corner
1 Klipsch heresy at center
Velodyne dps-10 sub
Pioneer elite 54 TX
Hafler DH500 amp powering the two fronts

The Pioneer 54TX stands top of my mind, as it doesn't support the latest HD codecs or atmos. I'm a tiny bit worried that the Hafler amp might be nearing its time (though I have not opened it up to inspect and measure its voltages or capacitance, something I should probably do). The sub is usually turned way down and is not a high priority for me, as there's a lot of gaming that happens with the HT setup and it gets annoying with bass booming through the house all the time.

So, how would you spend up to $5k to upgrade? ("Up to" is important as I'm not looking to spend $5k just to spend $5k).

Atmos AVR + ceiling speakers? - Atmos is tempting, but I rather have a superb 5.1 set up. Is this the right way to think about this, or will Atmos really add enjoyment to the HT?
AVR or Prepro + monoprice 7x200 amp? - Sorta leaning this option as a cornerstone for future upgrades. But will I really hear a difference?
AVR + Tube amp? - Prevailing opinion is that vintage Kilpsch speakers and tubes go hand in hand, but will I really hear a difference compared to a good solid state amp?
Some other combo, something I've missed completely, or something I need to rethink?

Thanks and appreciate insights or suggestions.

 

[mazersteven]

Keep your speakers and upgrade that sub. That's all I would do

Velodyne DPS-10 Subwoofer Review

Velodyne was founded in 1983 by David Hall, who currently is the CEO and Chief Engineer. The company is still privately owned with a head count of about 55 employees. David has had an engineering

www.audioholics.com

 

[ryanosaur]

If your itchin to upgrade... look at Subs, and sure, a refresh on the AVR.
Get the Sub up to par with movie LFE usage... it doesn't sound like you do anything crazy in the music realm, but getting a Sub or two that can hold it's own to 16-18Hz does make a difference in HT. As for the AVR, I think A4L has the Denon 4500 for right around 1K. The 3600 is 1100 on Amazon, last I looked, with the newest 3700 at 1200. That 4500 is no slouch as a refurb with full warranty. Decent power and all the features it seems like you might want, unless you need a bunch of old-school connectivity like composite video or such.

All told, 2K each on 2 good Subs, and 1K on that AVR...

Regardless, many ways to go. I wouldn't do tubes though.

 

[mazersteven]

All told, 2K each on 2 good Subs, and 1K on that AVR...

$4k in dual subs in a 13x15 room?

 

[ryanosaur]

$4k in dual subs in a 13x15 room?

View attachment 39523

I've got 2 x-13s in my 11x15', 2000'3 room!
Of course, I was primarily chasing Pipe Organ @16Hz, but the occasional movie and some other music... Damn, I love my Subs!

He doesn't have to spend it all! Unless he wants!

 

[mazersteven]

Damn, I love my Subs!

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if OP wanted to do subs, seriously, and match a vintage look:

Salk Sound

www.salksound.com

There are not many options out there for good quality subs that aren't black boxes, vinyl wrapped or that stuff that looks like Bed Liner (*blech) unfortunately. In his room, two of these, ported or sealed, and veneered to fit with the Klipsch speakers (if they are all the same...) would be fantastic.

These could be built Down firing... possibility of Passive Radiators may exist. If he were to sell them in the future, Salk builds seem to hold their value well...

Of course it could take 4-6 mos, but d@mn...

I thought about having Jim do 2 15" builds for me before I went with the Phil 3s. And as much as I love the 3s, I do sometimes wonder if I should've bought 2 more BMRs and Pimp Subs! instead.

Anywho...

 

[Kleinst]

No doubt good subs make a difference

I can say that my Canton ceiling speakers I have in my upstairs set up are really starting to sound amazing to me. It might not be priority #1 or #2 but after the AVR and Subs are shored up, don't sleep on getting some decent ceiling speakers in

 

[Inflex]

Thanks for the inputs. Never thought the sub as high priority (since I turn it down most of time), but now thinking about it, I often do come across movie scenes where the LFE was weak and out of place (immersion breaking). Makes perfect sense to upgrade it now.

A quick search comes up with an SVS PB12 Plus in my area for $800. Seems well-reviewed here. Grab it or get something bigger, newer? One constraint is that I have only about 18" from the floor to the bottom of my screen, so it would have to be a side placement. Shouldn't be a problem, I hope.

I don't think I'll be able to find room to fit 2 large subs, at least without changing out the couch for a smaller one.

Sounds like nay on going prepro + amp, and maybe even mixed/nay on AVR update? Would you guys mind elaborating on rationale? After the sub, is the next step AVR + ceiling speakers, or will just AVR make a big difference?

 

[mazersteven]

SVS PB12 Plus in my area for $800.
Seems AVR make a big difference?

That is a Great subwoofer and would work well in your room.

AVR's are for connectivity, power supplies, and to control your system. Speakers and Subwoofer create the Sound.

 

[ryanosaur]

AVR will not affect SQ really, after a certain point. The Processing/DACs could, depending on how old yours is. If 4K is in your future, you will need to update sooner or later. Depending on your priorities...

For the Subs... whatever works for you, as long as it delivers on the basics! The PB12+ wouldn't be a bad way to go.

I wouldn't advise separates. Nothing really to gain there, IMO.

 

[Swerd]

So, how would you spend up to $5k to upgrade? ("Up to" is important as I'm not looking to spend $5k just to spend $5k).

I wouldn't worry about the Hafler DH500 amp. And I would encourage you to have it rebuilt instead of replacing it. Audio by Van Alstine (AVA) will completely rebuild the electronics using your chassis, transformer, and heat sinks. It isn't cheap at $1500, but the results are excellent. There are other Hafler rebuilders on the internet, but I know little about them.

Atmos AVR + ceiling speakers? - Atmos is tempting, but I rather have a superb 5.1 set up. Is this the right way to think about this, or will Atmos really add enjoyment to the HT?

I agree with your thoughts. Atmos, in my opinion and limited experience, isn't worth it.

AVR or Prepro + monoprice 7x200 amp? - Sorta leaning this option as a cornerstone for future upgrades. But will I really hear a difference?

You might want to consider a newer AVR to drive your center and rear speakers, while using your Hafler to drive the front speakers. I'd look into Denon models AVR-X3500H, AVR-X3600H, or AVR-X4500H.

AVR + Tube amp? - Prevailing opinion is that vintage Kilpsch speakers and tubes go hand in hand, but will I really hear a difference compared to a good solid state amp?

Don't bother with tube amps. After your Hafler, you will be disappointed.

Some other combo, something I've missed completely, or something I need to rethink?

You didn't mention new speakers. Klipsch isn't my cup of tea, but I'm not buying, you are. If you ever consider new front speaker, for $3,000 to $5,000 you can get some excellent speakers from Salk. I have Salk Veracity STs, and would never consider replacing them.

 

[mazersteven]

You didn't mention new speakers.

So why would we suggest any?

Klipsch isn't my cup of tea

The OP has Klipsch Cornwalls. Not your average garden variety Klipsch. These are from the Heritage line.
Originally the Cornwall was to be used as the Center Channel to the Klipsch Horns.
The OP has some really nice speakers.

We all Love to Love Salk's

 

[Pogre]

Subwoofage and an avr refresh, yup. If you're still happy with your speakers I think better subs can offer some improvements and the avr will open up more connection options and get you updated.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks for the inputs. Never thought the sub as high priority (since I turn it down most of time), but now thinking about it, I often do come across movie scenes where the LFE was weak and out of place (immersion breaking). Makes perfect sense to upgrade it now.

A quick search comes up with an SVS PB12 Plus in my area for $800. Seems well-reviewed here. Grab it or get something bigger, newer? One constraint is that I have only about 18" from the floor to the bottom of my screen, so it would have to be a side placement. Shouldn't be a problem, I hope.

I don't think I'll be able to find room to fit 2 large subs, at least without changing out the couch for a smaller one.

Sounds like nay on going prepro + amp, and maybe even mixed/nay on AVR update? Would you guys mind elaborating on rationale? After the sub, is the next step AVR + ceiling speakers, or will just AVR make a big difference?

I'm not familiar with your current sub, but a really good sub does more than just add bass. When we recommend subs we also try to stress "good" subs. True clean, deep bass has a way of cleaning up your whole system beyond just adding more bass. Clean bass is almost always underestimated.

 

[Inflex]

Thanks again all. Really appreciate the insights.

On topic of subwoofers, the local SVS PB12 isn't going to work out. Seller won't demo it.

Looking around and reading the forums, it seems like Hsu VTF15 MK2 or VTF3 MK5 have quite a bit of bang for the buck at around $1k. It was suggested I aim for $2k subs earlier. While I do have some flex in the budget, will the $2k range be that much better? I get bigger is (almost) always better, but I'm trying to resist that temptation and find that value point.

What would I miss out on if I bought a $1k sub instead of a $2k sub?

 

[mazersteven]

Thanks again all. Really appreciate the insights.

On topic of subwoofers, the local SVS PB12 isn't going to work out. Seller won't demo it.

Looking around and reading the forums, it seems like Hsu VTF15 MK2 or VTF3 MK5 have quite a bit of bang for the buck at around $1k. It was suggested I aim for $2k subs earlier. While I do have some flex in the budget, will the $2k range be that much better? I get bigger is (almost) always better, but I'm trying to resist that temptation and find that value point.

What would I miss out on if I bought a $1k sub instead of a $2k sub?

The Cornwall's dig down pretty deep without a Sub. So IMO a sub that digs down below 20Hz would give you a significant up-grade. There are situations that you want to Feel the sub, not just hear it.

PB-3000 Subwoofer | SVS

Unrivaled subwoofer output and deep bass extension for the price with control, accuracy and refinement on par with subwoofers costing three times the price.

www.svsound.com

EV18 IPAL

EV1812 is a powered vented subwoofer with 960W of continuous, DSP controlled ICEpower® and an 18" B&C Neodymium Driver.

www.powersoundaudio.com

 

[ryanosaur]

Ha! My recommendation was more tongue in cheek than anything. No, you don’t need to drop 4K in subs.
Hsu subs are great value, performance to dollar.
The other highly recommended brands are SVS, Outlaw, Monoprice Monolith. Rythmik and PSA get lots of recommendations too.
(The link I posted earlier for Salk Sound built Rythmik’s was more if you were interested in the aesthetics of matching your cabinets than anything.)

 

[mtrycrafts]

One option is to save your leftover $$$ from a sub only upgrade and save for a good 4k projector later?
You spend all you $$$s now, you'll have to wait much longer for a 4k projector later.

 

[mazersteven]

Ha! My recommendation was more tongue in cheek than anything.

(The link I posted earlier for Salk Sound built Rythmik’s was more if you were interested in the aesthetics of matching your cabinets than anything.)