AV amplifier or Pre-amp + Power amp???

[Yannick]

First time poster so please be gentle.

Prices are in AUD

Looking at upgrading from 5.1.2 to 7.1.4

currently have Denon AVR-X3400H 7.1 105W 8 ohm
speakers are the recently installed centre speaker Klipsch THX 8000L and will soon be getting another 2 for a full LCR (currently running Klipsch RP160M, Upgrading to in wall to go behind screen). Surrounds are old Triad speakers. not much info online but they're the inwall Gold/4 Omni as rears and Inceiling Gold/6 Omni for... in ceiling. I have 4 of these and will install the other 2 when I get the 11CH.

this is as close as I could get:

https://www.control4.com/docs/product/triad-gold-omnis/triad-data-sheet/english/latest/triad-gold-omnis-triad-data-sheet-rev-a.pdf

lets say I have roughly $5000AUD for a 11CH solution

Im conflicted between the two options:
1: simple solution and get a Marantz SR8012 11CH 140W @ 8ohm and get this for roughly $5000

2: get the (now old) Denon AVR-X4500H 9CH 125W @ 8ohm (capable of 11CH with power amp) for roughly $2000 and get the Anthem MCA 325 3-Channel 225W @ 8ohm for roughly $3000 to power the 8000L's.

The THX 8000L are 150W/600W at 8ohm with 92dB sensitivity.

I''m aware that Klipsch speakers are very efficient and don't need a lot of power to run. but I also hear that you should give you're speakers or if not most of all your front LCR's as much power as you can to get full range.

should I give my LCR's maximum power and 125W to the rest of the speakers?

or I should I get the Marantz and supply all speakers 140W and this is enough?

help!

thanks in advanced

Yannick

 

[DigitalDawn]

That's the equivalent of approximately $3500 in US Dollars. You aren't going to find a Triad solution for 11 channels in the price range.-

 

[lovinthehd]

Might help answer your own questions by using something like this spl calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html, you don't provide much info to go on as far as your listening levels or room details. I'd spend less on the power amp if I went with the Denon 4500, $3k for 2x 225wpc is too much $ (altho I know its AUD and your prices tend to be higher), what other choices do you have? The Marantz 8012/Denon 8500 may be sufficient.

 

[mazersteven]

The Marantz SR8012 will drive that system without problem

 

[Yannick]

That's the equivalent of approximately $3500 in US Dollars. You aren't going to find a Triad solution for 11 channels in the price range.-

what do you mean by this? I need more power for the Triads?
its mainly the THX 8000L that im concerned about. making sure I provide sufficient power to them.

 

[Yannick]

Might help answer your own questions by using something like this spl calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html, you don't provide much info to go on as far as your listening levels or room details. I'd spend less on the power amp if I went with the Denon 4500, $3k for 2x 225wpc is too much $ (altho I know its AUD and your prices tend to be higher), what other choices do you have? The Marantz 8012/Denon 8500 may be sufficient.

Thanks for the feedback.
seems like people are leaning towards the Marantz.
the room size is 3.8mx3.8m (12.5feet) and 3.3m (10.8feet) from the screen/front speakers.
all speakers are in the wall besides the subwoofer which is at the front

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the feedback.
seems like people are leaning towards the Marantz.
the room size is 3.8mx3.8m (12.5feet) and 3.3m (10.8feet) from the screen/front speakers.
all speakers are in the wall besides the subwoofer which is at the front

For most people, an AVR like the Marantz will do a great job powering your Klipsch THX speakers and most speakers.

You are 100% correct in not worrying about all the other speakers. The MAIN L/R speakers will be ones that need the most power if you are setting them up for FULL-RANGE (set speakers to large, no subwoofers). If you set all speakers to small + use subwoofers, then none of them will require that much power. The subwoofers will require most of the power.

 

[Yannick]

r

For most people, an AVR like the Marantz will do a great job powering your Klipsch THX speakers and most speakers.

You are 100% correct in not worrying about all the other speakers. The MAIN L/R speakers will be ones that need the most power if you are setting them up for FULL-RANGE (set speakers to large, no subwoofers). If you set all speakers to small + use subwoofers, then none of them will require that much power. The subwoofers will require most of the power.

really appreciate the knowledge. that's correct, the speakers are set to small with subwoofer.
im leaning towards the 8012. just a matter of timing. the 8015 comes out in Australia roughly OCT. so just need to wait for the right time to get the 8012 at a great pice.
thanks people.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the feedback.
seems like people are leaning towards the Marantz.
the room size is 3.8mx3.8m (12.5feet) and 3.3m (10.8feet) from the screen/front speakers.
all speakers are in the wall besides the subwoofer which is at the front

The rated output difference between the SR8012 and AVR-X4500H is 140 vs 125W, that is only 0.5 dB!! It is a fact that I don't think anyone would disagree with.

dB calculate - decibel calculation dB calculator voltage power ratio sound pressure level matching dBA SPL sound pressure intensity ratios converter thd percent % audio engineering impedance matching bridging - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

dB calculate dB calculator decibel calculator voltage power ratio reference voltage power level matching dBA dB SPL sound pressure intensity ratios converter thd percent % audio engineering impedance matching bridging - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio.com

www.sengpielaudio.com

The SR8012 is better build, better looking (to me anyway).
The AVR-X4500H would likely performed better on the test bench, that is, no distortions, flatter FR etc., based on measurements on similar models over at ASR.

So is it worth spending $3,000 more on the Marantz for the better look and build that translate into no audible advantage and 0.5 dB power output difference? It's you money so obviously you call..

The fact is, either one can drive those speakers satisfactorily if you are 11 feet from the speakers and if reference level is the loudest you would go. You can offer the speakers 1000 W if you wish, but it wouldn't make any difference if 1.5 W would drive one of them to give you 85 dB from 11 ft, or 150 W for 105 dB peak. a sustained 85 dB sound pressure level is very loud, I could not even stand 80 dB average for more than a few minutes.

It may be better to spend your money on getting the best subwoofers you can afford.

If the $5,000 budge is for the AVR or AVP+amp only, the AVR-X4500H+MCA325 would be a much better option as it would provide some real power difference, not that you need it at all, but it would certainly give you some healthy headroom just in case. I don't know what would the price difference in Australia between the X4500H, X3700H and X4700H, but you may want to consider the other two to future proof a little.

Below is an informative post I would recommend you read before making your final choices.

Choosing between Denon X8500H, X4700H and X3700H AVRs

The power differences between the X8500H, X4700H and X3700H are about 1dB. If the requirement is for an AVR with only the internal amplifiers used, and with the number of power amplifiers that the X3700H or X4700H provide, then the lower price products provide a little cleaner power with about...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

really appreciate the knowledge. that's correct, the speakers are set to small with subwoofer.
im leaning towards the 8012. just a matter of timing. the 8015 comes out in Australia roughly OCT. so just need to wait for the right time to get the 8012 at a great pice.
thanks people.

I truly believe that if you set all speakers to small, XO to 80-120Hz, and use subwoofers, then practically ANY 9.2 AVR will be able to power all your speakers great.

The reason is because the BASS is what requires the big power. If you are using subwoofers, then all your speakers will NOT require the big power. So any 9.2/11.2 AVR will be able to power all your speakers just fine.

What's the availability and pricing on the Yamaha AVRs and CX-5200 pre-pro in Australia?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the feedback.
seems like people are leaning towards the Marantz.
the room size is 3.8mx3.8m (12.5feet) and 3.3m (10.8feet) from the screen/front speakers.
all speakers are in the wall besides the subwoofer which is at the front

Nah, not me with Marantz, they're marketed as being better without any evidence of being even all that different than Denon (they're both Sound United brands), and they usually cost more, at least here in the US generally. Last Marantz I bought was in the 70s (and it's long gone), have two Denons currently. Plus I think the port hole design is not only unattractive but also makes it hard to read settings.