AV receiver vs Music Streamer Amplifier

[lovinthehd]

Thanks sorry, I was looking to buy more, its because I have one pair at the moment. just to be sure the arrow still goes to the power even with the sys, which would make sense. thanks

Oh yeah and Ive definitely seen that link before, many years ago when I was on this forum a lot more often...

Just don't buy Audioquest, they're bullshit. Plenty of good cable options out there besides this nonsense.

 

[thebrieze]

For cables, take a look at BlueJeansCable. I’m sure there are much cheaper options, that are pretty good too. However there is little value in spending more - unless you like the look of it. People obsess about cable lengths, etc. I think for interconnects, 3-4 feet is a good balance of flexibility and length. With 6 ft and below, there should be no audible noise/signal loss with decent cables.

The sys has no active electronics. Also RCA/line level cables have very low voltage/current, so there is little to no risk of short circuits etc. that can cause damage.

yes, you will need to get off the couch and press a button to switch sources. A remote controlled preamp or integrated with HT Bypass would have the advantage of the remote.

I don’t know what you mean by arrows. RCA cables should be bi directional. If your cable has arrows in them, there are a few possibilities.
1. The cable has has a chip (voltage booster?) in it. For short distances, this is not needed. Probably needed at 20 ft or more where it might make a difference. Better to go balanced at that distance.
2. Some cables have chips to alter the sound. I would stay away from those
3. They painted an arrow on it to charge you more.

 

[skads_187]

For cables, take a look at BlueJeansCable. I’m sure there are much cheaper options, that are pretty good too. However there is little value in spending more - unless you like the look of it. People obsess about cable lengths, etc. I think for interconnects, 3-4 feet is a good balance of flexibility and length. With 6 ft and below, there should be no audible noise/signal loss with decent cables.

The sys has no active electronics. Also RCA/line level cables have very low voltage/current, so there is little to no risk of short circuits etc. that can cause damage.

yes, you will need to get off the couch and press a button to switch sources. A remote controlled preamp or integrated with HT Bypass would have the advantage of the remote.

I don’t know what you mean by arrows. RCA cables should be bi directional. If your cable has arrows in them, there are a few possibilities.
1. The cable has has a chip (voltage booster?) in it. For short distances, this is not needed. Probably needed at 20 ft or more where it might make a difference. Better to go balanced at that distance.
2. Some cables have chips to alter the sound. I would stay away from those
3. They painted an arrow on it to charge you more.

Thanks and turns out I checked physically, I only had one of those models, so its a non issue really
def heard about bluejeans, and have purchased speaker wire from them 10 years ago. The way things are at the moment, I need to look locally within Canada. #1 exchange rate is terrible #2 shipping is very long #3 shipping charges are also very expensive, not to mention any potential customs/duties charges.

Will try to keep the cables under 6 feet, hopefully I can get everything together close to the M10. Have to arrange it properly.

I will look for something not too expensive.

Will also need to order the Sys as well!

 

[thebrieze]

Will try to keep the cables under 6 feet, hopefully I can get everything together close to the M10. Have to arrange it properly.

Note, I was talking about RCA/interconnect cables that are much more susceptible to noise. If something needs to be longer, that’s fine, just make sure it’s a low capacitance cable with good shielding.

Speaker cables carry much higher level currents (and voltages) so noise is not an issue. If the gauge is appropriately thick for the required length (find calculators online) you should be good.

 

[skads_187]

Note, I was talking about RCA/interconnect cables that are much more susceptible to noise. If something needs to be longer, that’s fine, just make sure it’s a low capacitance cable with good shielding.

Speaker cables carry much higher level currents (and voltages) so noise is not an issue. If the gauge is appropriately thick for the required length (find calculators online) you should be good.

Thanks again, and yes was referring strictly to the interconnect cables, thanks

 

[skads_187]

Note, I was talking about RCA/interconnect cables that are much more susceptible to noise. If something needs to be longer, that’s fine, just make sure it’s a low capacitance cable with good shielding.

Speaker cables carry much higher level currents (and voltages) so noise is not an issue. If the gauge is appropriately thick for the required length (find calculators online) you should be good.

Just an update, got the NAD M10 and the sys, connected everything, did a small test on the M10, everything is working good so far. Music sounds better. Im also shopping around changing speakers to get a warmer sound. Looking at the Dynaudio's Evoke 50's and need to test out Sonus Faber Sonetto's.

Just had a question, which we already covered, but I think we said I can connect the Sub out from the M10 to my SVS sub's IN (right side - which is un-used) The Left LFE one is used by my AV.

No danger in doing this Im assuming, as long as I dont turn both on I guess? What can happen if that happens? just for knowledge purposes.

 

[thebrieze]

Just an update, got the NAD M10 and the sys, connected everything, did a small test on the M10, everything is working good so far. Music sounds better. Im also shopping around changing speakers to get a warmer sound. Looking at the Dynaudio's Evoke 50's and need to test out Sonus Faber Sonetto's.

Just had a question, which we already covered, but I think we said I can connect the Sub out from the M10 to my SVS sub's IN (right side - which is un-used) The Left LFE one is used by my AV.

No danger in doing this Im assuming, as long as I dont turn both on I guess? What can happen if that happens? just for knowledge purposes.

Curious to hear a review of how it sounds. Yeah sub should be fine, just add both inputs to L and R on the sub. If both sources are playing, you will get double the bass. But should be no real harm. This is how most subs work.

 

[thebrieze]

Good choices on the speakers. Haven’t heard the Sonus Farber, however I really like the Evoke series, both the 20 and 50 are very good speakers, and the 50 was on my short list. I eventually went down the Salk route.

Too much time between them to compare sound quality elements. What stood out for me with the Evoke’s was that the speakers simply disappeared - with the soundstage simply floating in the air. The Salk’s very much have the same effect in spades. Very few other speakers have managed to achieve that to the same degree.

 

[skads_187]

Good choices on the speakers. Haven’t heard the Sonus Farber, however I really like the Evoke series, both the 20 and 50 are very good speakers, and the 50 was on my short list. I eventually went down the Salk route.

Too much time between them to compare sound quality elements. What stood out for me with the Evoke’s was that the speakers simply disappeared - with the soundstage simply floating in the air. The Salk’s very much have the same effect in spades. Very few other speakers have managed to achieve that to the same degree.

Thanks for answering the subs question.

That is exactly how I feel when listening to the Evoke 50's. At first I wasnt sure how much of an upgrade it would be to my Imagine T2's, but they are way different and better for sure. The only problem is I only wish I could have auditioned them in home (but I cant).
Just to throw a curveball into the mix, I may be able to get a demo deal on Contour 30's since the 30i is coming out. But may cost too much when you factor in the center channel. We shall see.

For Salk, Ive read nothing but good things on those speakers. I actually inquired about them a long time ago ( the Songtowers I believe it was). The problem, then and now is, I am in Canada, #1 I cant audition them for myself #2 exchange rate is atrocious #3 shipping + customs + taxes just kills the price entirely, its a shame.
Same for Legacy Audio, those speakers look incredible, and I assume they sound incredible as well (just and assumption based on reviews, etc).

 

[thebrieze]

Yeah Canada makes it tough. I did not audition the Contours, however the rep said that the Evoke tweeter and other design elements was trickle down from the Contour series, so I can imagine they would be very good.

What other options are you considering? When I was auditioning, I struggled to find good options at that price point.

 

[pcosmic]

With Audioquest cables you're just going with idiotic marketing one way or the other, not anything meaningful let alone the idiotic concept of directional cables....if you get some free/cheap they could be usable, tho.

Try this set of articles for mostly speaker cables but does cover some interconnects http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I got 100ft of speaker wire from amazon for 40 bucks and it works great! (It has such a special place in my heart now! OMG) I will never buy anything else.
Speaker Wire

 

[skads_187]

Yeah Canada makes it tough. I did not audition the Contours, however the rep said that the Evoke tweeter and other design elements was trickle down from the Contour series, so I can imagine they would be very good.

What other options are you considering? When I was auditioning, I struggled to find good options at that price point.

Yes I had read something similar actually. I think the Contour will just be too much money when you factor in the center channel, although would have a been a nice opportunity, but honestly, I would rather look at upgrading other components instead.
To be honest, there isnt much, I didnt want to test the Focal Aria's as I know they are brighter and I not looking for that. Monitor Gold's came very close in sound quality, but still preferred the Dyns. The only other one Im thinking of is the Sonus Faber Sonetto's. But what I keep hearing, bang for buck , the Dyn is most likely better, not that the Sonus Fabers will sound bad, but will not get as much out of it.

 

[skads_187]

Good choices on the speakers. Haven’t heard the Sonus Farber, however I really like the Evoke series, both the 20 and 50 are very good speakers, and the 50 was on my short list. I eventually went down the Salk route.

Too much time between them to compare sound quality elements. What stood out for me with the Evoke’s was that the speakers simply disappeared - with the soundstage simply floating in the air. The Salk’s very much have the same effect in spades. Very few other speakers have managed to achieve that to the same degree.

Had one more question for you and anyone else too.

Out of curiosity, I also listened the the Sugden A21SE Class A Integrated Amp. Wondering if this makes sense or if its do-able. Can I connect my AV receiver and my NAD M10 to the Line Level inputs? I know the A21 has a volume control, so that is a problem, not sure if it works as its not really acting as a HT bypass. I guess need to figure out what volume it needs to be set as? Honestly , just curious, I dont think with my setup its a good idea, plus it needs to be warmed up prior to use. But it did sound great! I guess this is useful when you hook up only a streamer to it, or cd player etc. as it has a preamp, which is what I am assuming also makes it sound nice.

Another small update. I tested the M10 with the speakers connected to it directly (vs going to the Schiit and Emotiva). Music sounded definitely better. Warmer. I enjoyed it more. Which made me realize the Emotiva is adding a bit too much brightness to the sound.
I think it will cost too much (and too much space wasted where its tight) to go the route of having 4 front speakers 2 for HT and 2 for Music. I guess the only solution to this is wait in the future and upgrade my M10 to a nice Integrated amp with HT bypass. Like the M33 for example (but way too expensive).
Or sell my Emotiva for slightly under 1k and buy a used power amp at 2k? but that would need to wait as well. I wasnt sure what kind of difference I would here really. but it was nice.

 

[thebrieze]

The M10 has Hypex amps inside them which are very good. Not surprising you liked them better. Why not just use them instead of the Emotiva? If it doesn’t have an HT Bypass, level matching could be annoying though, especially with subs involved.

Alternatively, keep the M10, sell the Emotiva and get a Hypex or Purifi amp (M33 uses Purifi, M10 uses Hypex NC250 or NC2525MP) from one of the various vendors (Audiophonics, Nord, VTV, Apollon)

The cheapest option would be the Audiophonics NC250 amp for about $500 US.

Nad uses a custom input buffer to tweak the sound a little bit. However the default Hypex input buffer has excellent measurements (ASR review) and most of these vendors offer their own version of input buffers if you really want that.

 

[skads_187]

The M10 has Hypex amps inside them which are very good. Not surprising you liked them better. Why not just use them instead of the Emotiva? If it doesn’t have an HT Bypass, level matching could be annoying though, especially with subs involved.

Alternatively, keep the M10, sell the Emotiva and get a Hypex or Purifi amp (M33 uses Purifi, M10 uses Hypex NC250 or NC2525MP) from one of the various vendors (Audiophonics, Nord, VTV, Apollon)

The cheapest option would be the Audiophonics NC250 amp for about $500 US.

Nad uses a custom input buffer to tweak the sound a little bit. However the default Hypex input buffer has excellent measurements (ASR review) and most of these vendors offer their own version of input buffers if you really want that.

Very interesting, that is a good idea, I will need to see what I will do. i think the middle ground between a Hegel/Moon and a NAD M10 is the NAD M33, offers HT bypass and "should" sound good. maybe not as good as the Moon or the Hegel possibly.
But its also too expensive and would need to wait for a used model.

Edit: I guess it will add depend how the Evoke's sound with my current setup, if its really annoying , then I may look at a temporary power amp replacement.

 

[thebrieze]

i think the middle ground between a Hegel/Moon and a NAD M10 is the NAD M33, offers HT bypass and "should" sound good. maybe not as good as the Moon or the Hegel possibly.

The Purifi amps (used in the M33) are really cutting edge stuff, and should be superior to or at least competitive with anything else out there. It’s crazy that they can also be had for relatively very cheap from companies like Nord or VTV, or even Nad.

 

[skads_187]

The Purifi amps (used in the M33) are really cutting edge stuff, and should be superior to or at least competitive with anything else out there. It’s crazy that they can also be had for relatively very cheap from companies like Nord or VTV, or even Nad.

Yeah the idea is to keep some of the key features that I like about the NAD M10 and get great sound: BluOS, Dirac, nice screen where I can actually see and read album covers and titles from seating position, nice sounding amp and add to it the HT bypass capability.

 

[skads_187]

The M10 has Hypex amps inside them which are very good. Not surprising you liked them better. Why not just use them instead of the Emotiva? If it doesn’t have an HT Bypass, level matching could be annoying though, especially with subs involved.

Alternatively, keep the M10, sell the Emotiva and get a Hypex or Purifi amp (M33 uses Purifi, M10 uses Hypex NC250 or NC2525MP) from one of the various vendors (Audiophonics, Nord, VTV, Apollon)

The cheapest option would be the Audiophonics NC250 amp for about $500 US.

Nad uses a custom input buffer to tweak the sound a little bit. However the default Hypex input buffer has excellent measurements (ASR review) and most of these vendors offer their own version of input buffers if you really want that.

So this is exactly where I am at right now. Believe it or not, my speakers still havent arrived, going on 4 weeks now, any day now they should get here.

Right now Im looking to most likely keep the M10 and Pioneer using the Schiit switch box. Change the emotiva to either a Moon 330A (Class AB) or a NAD M22 V2 (ncore hypex). Would purchase used and not new. And then down the line I can potentially look at an integrated amp with HT bypass. Which one of those 2 might be better? or both are good options?

Which leads me to another question. I know I asked this before, but I've read somewhere that its a no no to have both my nad m10 and pioneer AVR both connected to the same sub? although they both aren't on at the same time. The M10 is always on standby mode though. But that isn’t the only reason, apparently there is always a signal pushing through?

and to add to that, what happens later on with an integrated amp? Im assuming that would not be a good idea to have the pioneer and integrated both plugged into the same sub? also hegel and moon seem to need to use both L and R inputs of the sub...

 

[parson0j]

Going back to the OP, there's an interesting question here. With NAD, Cambridge, Naim, Lyngdorf, etc, etc all bringing out streaming amps with RC, I am still trying to understand if they do anything a good AV can't. And before I get all the superior quality quackery, I would love to hear of any blind side by side comparison. On specs the streaming amps seem to compare with higher end AVRs