Speaker break-in / burn-in

[ATLAudio]

So, in full disclosure I think this concept is mostly nonsense, but to their credit this company has an actual experiment they perform over time showing a benefit from over several hours of burn in on their subwoofer driver.

Prior to this the best I’ve ever seen is a few minutes, but usually not at all.

So what are everyone’s thoughts? Is this experiment legit?

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[lovinthehd]

Do they come back after a long period of time and see if the effects remained? The visual on the video is just not encouraging to play....

 

[ATLAudio]

Do they come back after a long period of time and see if the effects remained? The visual on the video is just not encouraging to play....

That was my question too, there are a lot of reasons why driver performance can change. Give the sub a break and try it again in a few days. Control with a 3 year old sub.


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[mazersteven]

Who is DD Audio??? SMH

 

[Danzilla31]

So, in full disclosure I think this concept is mostly nonsense, but to their credit this company has an actual experiment they perform over time showing a benefit from over several hours of burn in on their subwoofer driver.

Prior to this the best I’ve ever seen is a few minutes, but usually not at all.

So what are everyone’s thoughts? Is this experiment legit?

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I remember hearing somewhere that subs may have a benefit from break in due to the larger cone rubber surrounds etc but they could not provide measurements and I can't remember the link it was a while back

I just thought even with subs like all speakers that they are broken in with noise at the factory is this correct?

Once they run them through the test tone they're good to go and the only thing that you break in at home is your ears not the speaker

 

[Danzilla31]

So, in full disclosure I think this concept is mostly nonsense, but to their credit this company has an actual experiment they perform over time showing a benefit from over several hours of burn in on their subwoofer driver.

Prior to this the best I’ve ever seen is a few minutes, but usually not at all.

So what are everyone’s thoughts? Is this experiment legit?

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Well at least they did something instead of just talk a bunch of nonsense even if they didn't test it properly

Gotta give them that

 

[mazersteven]

Now I do believe that the Sound Quality of Headphones improves as you use them. But Speakers

 

[ryanosaur]

For testing drivers, roughly an hour is all it takes to loosen up the new driver and get the "most accurate" readings. There is a rebound after it cools back down and it will "tighten" back up. To the best of my knowledge, there is no improvement beyond that hour of break-in, be it overnight or 100 hrs.
Most telling is that when tested after break-in, a driver's TS Parameters do change slightly. One source showed that the result was, however, negligible enough to not actually effect the design process in any meaningful way.

Another interesting blurb/FWIW:

I used to believe in speaker break-in, but after trying over several months (to no avail) to break in a pair of Infinity Primus P362's that initially, out of the box sounded too bright, I contacted Infinity's Sean Olive and asked him how much longer I should continue the process.
Here was his reply:
-----------
As far as "breaking in" the loudspeakers, this should have no effect on the performance or sound quality of the speaker; unfortunately this one of the many audiophile myths that, in most cases, has little scientific merit. Of course, over time, you may perceive the speakers have changed or improved because you may have adapted to their sound. That is a psychological effect that is not related to any physical change to the loudspeaker itself.
Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. Thank you.
Dr. Sean E. Olive
Senior Manager of Acoustic Research
R&D Group
Harman International
----------
In the end, instead of recommending further break-in, Dr. Olive requested the speakers be returned to Infinity where they were tested, found to exhibit excessive brightness as I described, and adjusted/parts-replaced to match their reference unit.
Meanwhile, over at PSB, Paul Barton has conducted experiments on speaker break in and has found nearly no measurements to support the notion that driver performance changes over a typical "break-in" time period.
(if anyone here has any test and measurement data that point towards a break-in effect, I would love to see that data, and I mean that in a genuinely curious way, not a huffy "show me the data" way...)
So based on these two experts' opinions, I would say that break-in is not required....

From:

Breaking in new Speakers

Hi, I am about to take delivery of a brand new pair of B & W 685 speakers. I read somewhere about breaking them in by playing low level back ground music for up to 50 hours.Does anyone know about breaking in speakers, and can give some guidelines?thanks.

www.stereophile.com

3rd post down

 

[ATLAudio]

@gene

What are your thoughts on this experiment?


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[ATLAudio]

Do they come back after a long period of time and see if the effects remained? The visual on the video is just not encouraging to play....

I’m not sure what’s more wide open, his eyes or his ear lobes.

That said, at least he tries to make an experiment.


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[John Parks]

This is interesting as well if you’ve got 30 minutes to spare:

 

[Pogre]

I think Gene found some evidence of break in with large drivers like subwoofers, but it was pretty small and didn't necessarily translate into audibility. It also didn't take much time either.

 

[ParisB]

To our ears, it's placebo. Any form of break in is either instantly within the first minute or on the microscopic variety.

 

[Swerd]

So what are everyone’s thoughts? Is this experiment legit?

This was not an experiment. It was a simple demonstration that Fs can drop somewhat with use. I've seen that many times before. To be a convincing experiment, this simple demo would have to go further:

1. The video did not ask the question if this drop in Fs was permanent (that is true break-in) or did the Fs return to the non-broken in state afterwards (warm up). (lovinthehd mentioned this in post #2.)
2. It assumed the stiffness of the spyder was the reason why breaking in was needed. Where was the evidence to support that idea?
3. And finally, the video never provided any listening test results. Could anyone hear a difference when the Fs had dropped 5 Hz?

 

[highfigh]

This was not an experiment. It was a simple demonstration that Fs can drop somewhat with use. I've seen that many times before. To be a convincing experiment, this simple demo would have to go further:

1. The video did not ask the question if this drop in Fs was permanent (that is true break-in) or did the Fs return to the non-broken in state afterwards (warm up). (lovinthehd mentioned this in post #2.)
2. It assumed the stiffness of the spyder was the reason why breaking in was needed. Where was the evidence to support that idea?
3. And finally, the video never provided any listening test results. Could anyone hear a difference when the Fs had dropped 5 Hz?

I measured differences with my WT-3 woofer tester and it was on a similar order to what you ask in question 3- I don't remember if I re-tested after the breaking in period. However, I installed four Boston Acoustics Pro 10" woofers in a cart (they were in a sealed enclosure) and connected a signal generator to the shop's receiver to let them go overnight with 25Hz, at a low-moderate level and when I used the RTA the next day, the lower limit was extended a bit. This was before I had the WT-3, so I could only use the RTA set to 1dB/division to see what was happening. It was the Audio Control SA-3050A, which had 1/3 octave resolution. I doubt the surrounds were affected- those were Butyl Rubber.

I think this is mostly perception without much proof, but I know of speaker manufacturers who state that break-in occurs over a number of hours (the number varies, by manufacturer) and in the case of Klipsch, they have a document that ends with "A small warning here: not all speakers will sound dramatically different after break-in. Some improve only marginally, while others do change in ways that may dazzle you. Either way, it’s possible that you’ll notice an improvement.".

Breaking in Speakers

Many audio experts and speaker manufacturers say that loudspeakers really benefit from break-in. Like anything else mechanical, the drivers—the midrange and woofers—found in almost all speakers hav...

www.klipsch.com

 

[KEW]

For testing drivers, roughly an hour is all it takes to loosen up the new driver and get the "most accurate" readings. There is a rebound after it cools back down and it will "tighten" back up. To the best of my knowledge, there is no improvement beyond that hour of break-in, be it overnight or 100 hrs.

I think this is all he really measured.
As a speaker plays, the internal friction of the surround being flexed quickly back and forth will warm it such that it becomes softer and more pliable. Once it cools back down, the properties will have returned to room temperature specifications.
At the same time, I might think there is some (comparatively minute) wear happening. I would like to see measurements at room temperature of a broke in (for an hour) sub and the same sub measured at room temperature 1,2,5,10 years later to see if there is any effect from wear and tear!

 

[ryanosaur]

I think this is all he really measured.
As a speaker plays, the internal friction of the surround being flexed quickly back and forth will warm it such that it becomes softer and more pliable. Once it cools back down, the properties will have returned to room temperature specifications.
At the same time, I might think there is some (comparatively minute) wear happening. I would like to see measurements at room temperature of a broke in (for an hour) sub and the same sub measured at room temperature 1,2,5,10 years later to see if there is any effect from wear and tear!

I looked for the article I read... about 6 mos ago... hoping I could post it here. No dice yet; not holding out much hope. What I remember is a series of TS parameters taken new cold, warm after an hour, broken in cold, and then a few more after playing overnight and I think there was one for 100 hours.
In the end, the author seemed to put forth that you actually didn't need to break in a driver at all, that the changes were not significant enough in any way to warrant the delay of breaking in. That said, it was more in favor that any change occurs pretty quickly.
IMO, I know you can hear a difference in a new reed vs one that has been played a little, vs one that has been played a lot. Most of the cats I knew would keep four in circulation. Regardless, I've never seen a set of measurements for a Reed's TS Parameters.
Considering the very minute changes in physical characteristics, and assuming that these changes are not significant enough to change the design of a speaker (Vas, port tuning, etc), then it strikes me that there may not be an audible change to the driver itself.
Unlike the reed, the driver is more mechanical. A reeds fibers will break down over time. A Poly cone... magnesium... will those?

 

[Verdinut]

The majority of woofers will have their suspension system loosened after 5 to 10 hours of play. The Fs can be lowered by more than 10% in some cases. However, this has very little effect on the Thiele/Small parameters of the driver and required box volume.
The Fs/Qts ratios remain constant before and after break-in. So the changes for hearing perception are trivial.

 

[KEW]

Unlike the reed, the driver is more mechanical. A reeds fibers will break down over time. A Poly cone... magnesium... will those?

Thinking about what in a driver could change over time...
I would think (but don't know) that the strength of the magnet decays over time as a matter of entropy - does anyone know?
Otherwise I see the surround as the element being subjected to the most wear because it is the item that is getting physically flexed. Obviously, we had the older foam ones that totally disintegrated over time.
The cone has plenty of vibrations/flexes traveling through it, but I do not believe the amplitude of these vibrations is ever enough to result in material fatigue.

Unfortunately, I don't know that much about speaker design. I don't know if the surround is designed to be stiff in order to assist in returning the cone to it's neutral position. I am inclined to think they are designed to provide minimal resistance while maintaining a seal around the perimeter of the cone and the magnetic field controls position. If the latter, then a 5% difference of a very small (spring) resistance is a very, very small change in resistance.
I am also not so knowledgeable of plastics as I would like (on the topic of long-term wear). When I was a kid, any plastic hinge (like on a plastic index card box) was not long for this world, but soon thereafter, the "living hinge" was being advertised as a self-healing system that would result in on-going repair of the molecular bonds that were broken from flexing. This has definitely changed the way I look at durability of plastics. However, I always assume that there is, at least, some accrued wear despite the healing, but I don't know.
Is there a "materials specialist" in the house?

 

[ATLAudio]

Not to channel my inner Stephen Colbert, but the trouble with this myth is how “truthy” it sounds. So many things from tennis shoes to footballs have a break in period that we can feel.


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