thinking Denon AVR-X4700H in pre amp with Audio Control Pantages G4

[Jordan Friedman]

so hear me out...im building a 5.1 dynaudio contour 60i (coming in a few weeks). so i need the right gear to run it.

i really feel like wasting money on a processor or receiver makes little sense. I just dont get it. After a certain point you need something that has the right codecs, solid fidelity, etc. And what separates receivers generally the quality of the amp.

So.......thinking about getting the x3700H which seems like it is EXACTLY the same as the 6700H but has smaller amp. But that's fine for my purposes so I want to run it in pre amp mode.

so for 1,000 i get an 8k, hdmi 2.1 great processor. am i crazy? or could this system work?

 

[roadwarrior]

Should work fine but it is defintiely not even remotely the same receiver as the 6700.

 

[PENG]

so hear me out...im building a 5.1 dynaudio contour 60i (coming in a few weeks). so i need the right gear to run it.

i really feel like wasting money on a processor or receiver makes little sense. I just dont get it. After a certain point you need something that has the right codecs, solid fidelity, etc. And what separates receivers generally the quality of the amp.

So.......thinking about getting the x3700H which seems like it is EXACTLY the same as the 6700H but has smaller amp. But that's fine for my purposes so I want to run it in pre amp mode.

so for 1,000 i get an 8k, hdmi 2.1 great processor. am i crazy? or could this system work?

Congratulations!

You may be the first, or among the first few on forums who are willing to at least try using a well measured (not exactly be reasonably assumed) mere AVR to drive relatively expensive 4 ohm speakers, well done!

The $1199 (list price) predecessor of the 3700 measured as good as a $4,999 separate processor at beat a couple others in that price range. Even its tiny internal amps seem adequate for the Contour 60i depending on your seating distance, and desired SPL.

If you sit say 11 ft from the speakers, and only need 95 dB (10 dB below reference) max peak like I do, then the 3700 can drive those speakers. In that case you should put a fan on top of the unit.

If you need more SPL, and/or sit further away then I would suggest you budget for an external 3 channel power amp rated 250 W/400 w or more at 8/4 Ohms such as the Anthem MCA325 or Parasound Halo A31, or the more budget oriented Monolith 200 WX3. For a little more, you can also consider ATI's AT523NC, or even the AT543NC.

Again, you are doing the right thing, spending money on where it counts most!!!!!

 

[roadwarrior]

If you need more SPL, and/or sit further away then I would suggest you budget for an external 3 channel power amp rated 250 W/400 w or more at 8/4 Ohms such as the Anthem MCA325 or Parasound Halo A31, or the more budget oriented Monolith 200 WX3. For a little more, you can also consider ATI's AT523NC, or even the AT543NC.

Again, you are doing the right thing, spending money on where it counts most!!!!!

He'll need a 5 channel external amp to run a 5.1 setup in pre amp mode not 3.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

Should work fine but it is defintiely not even remotely the same receiver as the 6700.

So i looled on Denons website and compared each X model and the 4700 and 6700 are literally the same except for the internal amp. So why doesn’t it make sense to use the 4700 in pre amp and use pantages g4 to drive the speakers? Why spend the extra money for the 6700 if the only difference is the amps (that i wont use)

 

[Jordan Friedman]

Congratulations!

You may be the first, or among the first few on forums who are willing to at least try using a well measured (not exactly be reasonably assumed) mere AVR to drive relatively expensive 4 ohm speakers, well done!

The $1199 (list price) predecessor of the 3700 measured as good as a $4,999 separate processor at beat a couple others in that price range. Even its tiny internal amps seem adequate for the Contour 60i depending on your seating distance, and desired SPL.

If you sit say 11 ft from the speakers, and only need 95 dB (10 dB below reference) max peak like I do, then the 3700 can drive those speakers. In that case you should put a fan on top of the unit.

If you need more SPL, and/or sit further away then I would suggest you budget for an external 3 channel power amp rated 250 W/400 w or more at 8/4 Ohms such as the Anthem MCA325 or Parasound Halo A31, or the more budget oriented Monolith 200 WX3. For a little more, you can also consider ATI's AT523NC, or even the AT543NC.

Again, you are doing the right thing, spending money on where it counts most!!!!!

I muse be misunderstanding, i will be usig the 4700 (decided not to do 3700) in PRE AMP mode. The 4700 will just be processor. I will be using a great amp that dynaudio engineers themselves recommend. The audio control pantages g4 (5 channel beast of an amp). The 4700 wont be driving the speakers at all

maybe I’m misunderstanding your point...

 

[Jordan Friedman]

He'll need a 5 channel external amp to run a 5.1 setup in pre amp mode not 3.

The pantages g4 is a 5 channel amp

 

[roadwarrior]

So i looled on Denons website and compared each X model and the 4700 and 6700 are literally the same except for the internal amp. So why doesn’t it make sense to use the 4700 in pre amp and use pantages g4 to drive the speakers? Why spend the extra money for the 6700 if the only difference is the amps (that i wont use)

Respectfully, no They are not. Doesn't matter what you've read on Denon's website. The 6700 has a totally different design team than the Vietnam built 3700 based in Japan that also designs and builds their flagship receiver 8500. Better parts, better build quality and more features but yes other than that they are exactly the same. The 3700 may fit your needs to a tee and that's perfectly fine but trying to convince yourself that it's the same receiver as a flagship based model is kind of a head scratcher. It's front panel is plastic with a single line display, no Auro 3D upmixer, no custom 2 channel stereo settings, no dual 12 volt triggers, no front USB input etc.. and that's just comparing it to the receiver above it that is built in the same line as the 3700 and is it's comparator not the 6700. I still think you're making a good decision though going with the 3700.

 

[roadwarrior]

The pantages g4 is a 5 channel amp

I was responding specifically to PENG's recommend for a 3 channel amp.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

Respectfully, no They are not. Doesn't matter what you've read on Denon's website. The 6700 has a totally different design team than the Vietnam built 3700 based in Japan that also designs and builds their flagship receiver 8500. Better parts, better build quality and more features but yes other than that they are exactly the same. The 3700 may fit your needs to a tee and that's perfectly fine but trying to convince yourself that it's the same receiver as a flagship based model is kind of a head scratcher. It's front panel is plastic with a single line display, no Auro 3D upmixer, no custom 2 channel stereo settings, no dual 12 volt triggers, no front USB input etc.. and that's just comparing it to the receiver above it that is built in the same line as the 3700 and is it's comparator not the 6700. I still think you're making a good decision though going with the 3700.

Appreciate the explanation!

So even the 4700 which literally has the exact same features as the 6700 except for amp....still completely different receiver?

I can understand the 3700 is fairly bare bones but the 4700 seems near identical (feature wise) except for amp.

Any idea if the 4700 is made closer to the 6700?


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[roadwarrior]

Appreciate the explanation!

Welcome.

So even the 4700 which literally has the exact same features as the 6700 except for amp....still completely different receiver?

Does not have exactly the same features. I researched both the 4000 and 6000 series for almost 2 years before buying a 2016 4300 model. Yes completely different receiver.

I can understand the 3700 is fairly bare bones but the 4700 seems near identical (feature wise) except for amp.

Any idea if the 4700 is made closer to the 6700?

The 3700 is based more so on the 4700 as they share a production plant so no the 4700 is not made closer to the 6700. The 6700 is made closer to the 8500 as they also share a production plant and design team.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

Welcome.



Does not have exactly the same features. I researched both the 4000 and 6000 series for almost 2 years before buying a 2016 4300 model. Yes completely different receiver.





The 3700 is based more so on the 4700 as they share a production plant so no the 4700 is not made closer to the 6700. The 6700 is made closer to the 8500 as they also share a production plant and design team.

Just to be clear I am talking about the 2020 models that just came out


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[roadwarrior]

Just to be clear I am talking about the 2020 models that just came out


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As am I. Pre amp mode, HDMI 2.1 and a 2 slot Audyssey setting feature doesn't change anything I've said.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

As am I. Pre amp mode, HDMI 2.1 and a 2 slot Audyssey setting feature doesn't change anything I've said.

Understood! Really appreciate your insight.

trust me i get the dangerous "what is better" and "is this an upgrade?" questions that plague this community. My room is not someone elses room and my ears aren't someone elses ears.

In my ignorant baby audiophile mind, after researching and buying tons of different gear, It's been awhile since I have been wowed by a DAC/processor. Only speakers (or headphones) and amps have really changed my listening experience. AGAIN THIS IS JUST FOR ME. Maybe i have terrible ears.

In my setup, to get biggest bang for buck, it seemed great to use the 4700 which i could update every few years when new tech comes out but invest in a great powerful amp that could last me decade+ (Pantages G4).

So for 1699 (denon 4700) + 2400 (pantages 5 channel amp) = ~4,000 i could get an awesome separates combo that should crush (again, in my crazy mind) most other separates combo. I don't know another 4,000 separates combo that could compete on features or power.

hugs, love you all, sorry for any disrespect. I really do appreciate this hobby and never meant anything negative by my question

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speaker - $10,750
Amp - $2,800
AVR - $1200

I would say that’s sort of “breaking the mold”. But maybe no more so than someone with $50K speakers using Emotiva electronics.

That’s because everyone has a different definition of “High-End”.

Does “Preamp mode“ and great SINAD numbers from one website makes you feel High-End?

Whatever makes you happy at the end of the day.

 

[Kleinst]

Do you already have the Pantages? what’s your thoughts on that vs say a Monolith 7?

I think you bring up something I had been thinking. Assuming good quality in general does one AVR processing say Atmos or Dolby Digital + do it better than another? Surely so but is that processing not the same? Maybe just my ignorance.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

Speaker - $10,750
Amp - $2,800
AVR - $1200

I would say that’s sort of “breaking the mold”. But maybe no more so than someone with $50K speakers using Emotiva electronics.

That’s because everyone has a different definition of “High-End”.

Does “Preamp mode“ and great SINAD numbers from one website makes you feel High-End?

Whatever makes you happy at the end of the day.

it's not about what makes me "feel" high end. I don't care what the brands in my cabinet or flexing online to strangers. What I care about is performance and value.

I would love to actually see some blind A/B tests using same room, same speakers, same amp, and rotate a Denon 4700 in preamp compared to a $7,000 NAD processor. Or any other "high end" processor.

I would love for someone to say "wow, I can tell the difference." Why is that a crazy concept? it's not about "feeling" high end. It's about results. Why trick yourself that the sound is better?

haha, you know what, fine I will do my test. I will do the following setups:

Static Gear (won't change between tests):
Speakers: Dynaudio 60i 5.1 system (60i fronts, 25i center, 20i surrounds)
Cable: BlueJeans 12awg
Subs: Two REL S/812

Dynamic (gear i will swap between tests):

Test 1: Denon 4700H running as the receiver (processor and amp)

Test 2: Denon 4700H in pre-amp mode and Pantages G4 powering speakers

Test 3: $10,000 processor (which one TBD, or you guys can pick it) and Pantages G4

So there we go...im curious and at least i will personally know what if any difference FOR MY SETUP AND ROOM an amp and processor can give me.

let me know if there are any other tests you want me to run

 

[roadwarrior]

Understood! Really appreciate your insight.

trust me i get the dangerous "what is better" and "is this an upgrade?" questions that plague this community. My room is not someone elses room and my ears aren't someone elses ears.

In my ignorant baby audiophile mind, after researching and buying tons of different gear, It's been awhile since I have been wowed by a DAC/processor. Only speakers (or headphones) and amps have really changed my listening experience. AGAIN THIS IS JUST FOR ME. Maybe i have terrible ears.

In my setup, to get biggest bang for buck, it seemed great to use the 4700 which i could update every few years when new tech comes out but invest in a great powerful amp that could last me decade+ (Pantages G4).

So for 1699 (denon 4700) + 2400 (pantages 5 channel amp) = ~4,000 i could get an awesome separates combo that should crush (again, in my crazy mind) most other separates combo. I don't know another 4,000 separates combo that could compete on features or power.

hugs, love you all, sorry for any disrespect. I really do appreciate this hobby and never meant anything negative by my question

No worries and there was no disrespect I saw on your part nor none taken nor meant on mine. Just a matter of my having more information from being immersed in everything Denon for many years. Now you have it too. To me the 4000 series is the sweet spot for value for the dollar in the Denon lineup. DAC's are DAC's to me as well and not responsible for any better or worse sound unless designed and implemented poorly. Good luck and enjoy your new receiver whichever model you finally choose.

 

[Jordan Friedman]

No worries and there was no disrespect I saw on your part nor none taken nor meant on mine. Just a matter of my having more information from being immersed in everything Denon for many years. Now you have it too. To me the 4000 series is the sweet spot for value for the dollar in the Denon lineup. DAC's are DAC's to me as well and not responsible for any better or worse sound unless designed and implemented poorly. Good luck and enjoy your new receiver whichever model you finally choose.

Thanks bud!


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[PENG]

He'll need a 5 channel external amp to run a 5.1 setup in pre amp mode not 3.

Yeah you are right, I forget that preamp mode, unlike the 8500"s is all or none.