Soundeasy 25, speaker crossover design and driver measurement

[Bill13]

I have Soundeasy version 25 computer software for designing speakers and crossovers --- Soundeasy software facilitates using your computer to measure your chosen loudspeaker drivers and then design crossovers and speaker cabinet-enclosures (CAD -- computer aided design).

Currently I'm building a three-way loudspeaker using the RAAL140-15D ribbon tweeter in a compact 1/2 cu ft cabinet.

It would be nice to have a forum where one can ask Soundeasy-related questions.

For example, here's my question:
I'm having a problem with Soundeasy (v25) ‘automatically’ changing my driver files (Amplitude and Impedance plots) when opening a new project.

When I open a new project, and load my driver measurement files (done by Soundeasy 25 measurement system), the driver amplitude and impedance plots are surprisingly changed.

After opening the project, I checked to see if the driver measurement plots are still the same as when I did the original driver measurements. {Note: I did not go to driver editor and did not attempt to model the driver’s magnitude or impedance plots. I did not go to the enclosure design menu, either.}

I did this check of the three drivers after opening the new project, by navigating to menu “CAD Frequency / Time Plot Control” & then select Plot Parameters: “SPL of ‘Driver Type Is” with selection of the appropriate node for each of my three drivers in my new three-way speaker design project (driver file extensions: ".wfr, .mrd., or .twe").

To my astonishment, the magnitude & impedance plots of the drivers (using “SPL of Driver Type Is”) are not the same as when I open each driver file by itself (no project open). The amplitude and impedance plots for each driver file are OK = the same as when I did the original SE driver measurements.

For you Soundeasy experts out there, any suggestions?

Thanks,

new member: 'Bill13'

 

[Pogre]

Have you built speakers previous to this, or is this a first build? A 3 way design is quite a task from scratch.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have Soundeasy version 25 computer software for designing speakers and crossovers --- Soundeasy software facilitates using your computer to measure your chosen loudspeaker drivers and then design crossovers and speaker cabinet-enclosures (CAD -- computer aided design).

Currently I'm building a three-way loudspeaker using the RAAL140-15D ribbon tweeter in a compact 1/2 cu ft cabinet.

It would be nice to have a forum where one can ask Soundeasy-related questions.

For example, here's my question:
I'm having a problem with Soundeasy (v25) ‘automatically’ changing my driver files (Amplitude and Impedance plots) when opening a new project.

When I open a new project, and load my driver measurement files (done by Soundeasy 25 measurement system), the driver amplitude and impedance plots are surprisingly changed.

After opening the project, I checked to see if the driver measurement plots are still the same as when I did the original driver measurements. {Note: I did not go to driver editor and did not attempt to model the driver’s magnitude or impedance plots. I did not go to the enclosure design menu, either.}

I did this check of the three drivers after opening the new project, by navigating to menu “CAD Frequency / Time Plot Control” & then select Plot Parameters: “SPL of ‘Driver Type Is” with selection of the appropriate node for each of my three drivers in my new three-way speaker design project (driver file extensions: ".wfr, .mrd., or .twe").

To my astonishment, the magnitude & impedance plots of the drivers (using “SPL of Driver Type Is”) are not the same as when I open each driver file by itself (no project open). The amplitude and impedance plots for each driver file are OK = the same as when I did the original SE driver measurements.

For you Soundeasy experts out there, any suggestions?

Thanks,

new member: 'Bill13'

It is hard to know what to tell you. I personally do not use that program. It has a reputation for having bad instructions, but loads of information telling you how good it is! It seems to offer an awful lot of features for the price which might be at the bottom of your difficulties. It has a reputation for not being intuitive, but I find only one person who totally dislikes it.

It is sold by Parts Express so may be someone on their tech forum can help you. I think only someone who has used that software or who is experienced and siting beside you can really help you. It sounds form your description though that the software might be "buggy."

I have to ask you why you are designing a 3 way speaker in a half cubic foot box. A center might be a good reason, but not much else.

If you are a novice it is a good idea to bounce ideas of experienced builders on forums like this as a check to the viability of your project and design.

The inexperienced think that three ways are the way to go, when in fact they are to be avoided unless under odd circumstances it makes sense. and a center is one such reason. I can tell you though from personal experience, that centers are a tough design. That is why there are so many lousy ones.

 

[Bill13]

TLS Guy and Pogre: Thanks for your replies.
During the last thirty years or so, I've built many DIY hobby loudspeakers (& roughly the last 10 years or so, using Soundeasy software -- as best I could)

Using Soundeasy, I feel that it's not the complexity of designing a three-way Vs. a simpler two-way speaker that's especially difficult, but instead, it's dealing with Soundeasy's eccentricities.
I've read the SE25 PDF user manual (19 chapters) and 'John K's' SE help files (introductory level tutorial).

SE tutorials and user manual PDFs should show where a novice is likely to make mistakes. For example frequency range scaling in SE program "preferences" setup.

Want to see a user-guide or a tutorial that doesn't omit important details, on how to create driver files and design a speaker when the drivers are already mounted in the cabinet.

 

[Bill13]

BTW, I've previously built a successful three-way speaker using Soundeasy, IMO. This three-way uses a Satori 6" woofer, two Audience A3 drivers as midrange, and a small RAAL 70-10 ribbon tweeter. Maybe I was lucky.

This time, the drivers of the three-way speaker are already mounted in a 1/2 cu ft cabinet -- doesn't look bad, although had to do some serious driver-flange cutting and cabinet mods to fit all the drivers on the front baffle. So, mounting the drivers wasn't easy.
This pair of new three-way speakers use the Seas W18, two A3s as midrange, and the big RAAL 15-140D ribbon tweeter. Yes, this project is a challenge. Like climbing Mount Everest, it cannot be easily justified.

However, I'm sure that this speaker build will be successful --- if only I can solve the Soundeasy problem with the crossover design that I mentioned.

Bill

 

[TLS Guy]

BTW, I've previously built a successful three-way speaker using Soundeasy, IMO. This three-way uses a Satori 6" woofer, two Audience A3 drivers as midrange, and a small RAAL 70-10 ribbon tweeter. Maybe I was lucky.

This time, the drivers of the three-way speaker are already mounted in a 1/2 cu ft cabinet -- doesn't look bad, although had to do some serious driver-flange cutting and cabinet mods to fit all the drivers on the front baffle. So, mounting the drivers wasn't easy.
This pair of new three-way speakers use the Seas W18, two A3s as midrange, and the big RAAL 15-140D ribbon tweeter. Yes, this project is a challenge. Like climbing Mount Everest, it cannot be easily justified.

However, I'm sure that this speaker build will be successful --- if only I can solve the Soundeasy problem with the crossover design that I mentioned.

Bill

That is the problem I have here, as 6" drivers do not need a midrange. Every crossover is a quality spoiler. Unless you can use first order, and few designs allow that, there is significant time shift. So the fewer crossovers the better. The full range brigade are not totally crazy.

Personally I would not tolerate that software from what you have to say and purchase something else. The program sounds like a nightmare. When you know what you are doing designing first class speakers is not that difficult. The real trick is choosing and matching drivers, so most of the crossover is already done for you.

The biggest mistake is having preconceived notions about what drivers you should use and purchase.

 

[Bill13]

TLS Guy,
I found adding the Audience A3 driver as a midrange sounds better than the 6" woofer by itself above say, 350 Hz. The A3's sonic character blends much better with the RAAL ribbons (sonic transition to the tweeter) - also, the A3 midrange is more transparent than the woofer and seems to image & 'soundstage' better (A3 is physically smaller with low moving-mass). IMO, using a great midrange driver is worth the extra effort. If the speaker cabinets were bigger than my current ones, I probably would have used a larger Satori woofer instead.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy,
I found adding the Audience A3 driver as a midrange sounds better than the 6" woofer by itself above say, 350 Hz. The A3's sonic character blends much better with the RAAL ribbons (sonic transition to the tweeter) - also, the A3 midrange is more transparent than the woofer and seems to image & 'soundstage' better (A3 is physically smaller with low moving-mass). IMO, using a great midrange driver is worth the extra effort. If the speaker cabinets were bigger than my current ones, I probably would have used a larger Satori woofer instead.

I see that driver is NLA. It seems pretty low powered and of low sensitivity. It is 16 ohm and obviously designed to be used in pairs.

There are plenty of small mid range woofers with a good mid range response. Using an driver like that A3 makes life unnecessarily complicated for you..

That is the problem with midrange drivers, there are so few any good. They are so often too low powered and do not handle the whole speech discrimination band properly. For most you need two per speaker. Morel have a good and powerful one and of course the ATC is probably the cream of the crop.

 

[Bill13]

TLS Guy,

Yes, I do indeed use my Audience A3 midrange driver in pairs (two each) mounted on the front baffle 3-way speaker with the Satori 6" woofer and RAAL ribbon.

IMO, the A3 is fantastic as a midrange. Almost unbelievably low distortion in its proper useable frequency range.

I've yet to hear anything better for crossing over to a RAAL ribbon tweeter.

Also, I have way more than 50 of these Audience A3 drivers left over from a 'decommissioned' Audience loudspeaker (old model "16+16") -- don't want to let these gems go to waste!!

Bill

 

[Bill13]

Good news!
Today, I reset my Soundeasy program ‘preferences’ menu frequency ranges to agree for both of my computers {SE25 on both my hobby room computer and also my office computer}. Today, I redid and saved the driver measurements using the SE measurement system {& of course, did the Hilbert transform}. I also saved my 3-way speaker project file using the identical frequency ranges in ‘preferences’. Now it looks like the driver files and are displayed properly when the project is open (driver tools – driver data menu). Keeping my fingers crossed and hope that no more project design ‘show-stoppers’ are encountered. Drivers are already mounted on the front-baffle, so maybe future fancy enclosure modelling can avoided (except if I choose to do near-field measurements of the woofer, then baffle-diffraction correction would be necessary). This SE 'preferences' issue must be fixed so novices like me don't get snared.
Looks like my 3-way speaker build is going to be a success.