Thoughts on two center channels... Hear me out on this please.

[Hellerjon]

Hey Everyone,

I have a 75" screen with Revel in-wall W970 speakers as my left and right channels right next to the TV, and a horizontally mounted W970 above the TV.

I'm dealing with a problem that I'm sure some of you have, which is the Center channel above the screen is off axis so I have to pump the volume more there.

There's no way to put the center channel below the screen, however I had a crazy thought to possibly take the center channel speaker out, get another W970 speaker (which I already have), and mount them vertically right below my current left and right speakers. My thoughts for doing this are that a mono signal from left and right sources would sound like they're coming from directly in front of you. I know this is a radical idea but I'd love to get some expert thoughts on this, or if you have any alternatives for improving my situation.
I've attached a pic of my screen set-up so you can see for yourself.

 

[Mark E. Long]

first question I have is why is adding a new center below the screen out of the question ? your center is very high up but id think the receivers set up would compensate for some of that height if not id raise the screen and install the center below where it would be easier to manage . just my opinion .

 

[Movie2099]

Hey Everyone,

I have a 75" screen with Revel in-wall W970 speakers as my left and right channels right next to the TV, and a horizontally mounted W970 above the TV.

I'm dealing with a problem that I'm sure some of you have, which is the Center channel above the screen is off axis so I have to pump the volume more there.

There's no way to put the center channel below the screen, however I had a crazy thought to possibly take the center channel speaker out, get another W970 speaker (which I already have), and mount them vertically right below my current left and right speakers. My thoughts for doing this are that a mono signal from left and right sources would sound like they're coming from directly in front of you. I know this is a radical idea but I'd love to get some expert thoughts on this, or if you have any alternatives for improving my situation.
I've attached a pic of my screen set-up so you can see for yourself.

I'm not sure that will work. I mean, it could, but I don't think it would sound right. Personally, I would ditch that idea and just get a normal stand alone center channel. If you were sticking with Revel, which you should, you should look at the C208. Stick that right on top of your entertainment center. I would never stick a center channel above the video source.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[NINaudio]

Hey Everyone,

I have a 75" screen with Revel in-wall W970 speakers as my left and right channels right next to the TV, and a horizontally mounted W970 above the TV.

I'm dealing with a problem that I'm sure some of you have, which is the Center channel above the screen is off axis so I have to pump the volume more there.

There's no way to put the center channel below the screen, however I had a crazy thought to possibly take the center channel speaker out, get another W970 speaker (which I already have), and mount them vertically right below my current left and right speakers. My thoughts for doing this are that a mono signal from left and right sources would sound like they're coming from directly in front of you. I know this is a radical idea but I'd love to get some expert thoughts on this, or if you have any alternatives for improving my situation.
I've attached a pic of my screen set-up so you can see for yourself.

Why not just go two channel at that point? The center information will be sent to the left and right channels and do exactly what you're talking about without the expense of buying additional center channels, and also without having to worry about how to hook them up properly without overloading your amp.

 

[Gmoney]

If I remember, way back use to be Recommended to put a center above the TV or on each side of the tv. Things Have evolved since the old days of DS. Some use Full range Tower speaker's as a centerpiece. Some use Full range tower speakers for surrounds. I say try it out, you like the way it sounds? Than that's all that matters. The Science behind, this whole surrounds things is what it is. Experiment you may be the next guy that DS try's to get a License on it. lol. point is its your setup do as you like with it.

 

[2channel lover]

CC above the video source typically leave something desire for movie audio.

This is one of those situations where during the install cosmetics won out over functionality...in spite of the neat looking TV recessed area... I would go the same route as Movie2099...raise the TV and get a regular CC...the C208 is a great option.

 

[2channel lover]

Why not just go two channel at that point? The center information will be sent to the left and right channels and do exactly what you're talking about without the expense of buying additional center channels, and also without having to worry about how to hook them up properly without overloading your amp.

Now that I have a good CC, I wouldn't go phantom, but that's not a bad idea to keep everything looking clean.

 

[Pogre]

Well here's a great thread discussing this same subject...

MAXIMIZING THE USEFULNESS OF A HOME THEATER WITH 2 CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKERS

Home Theater Design Setup To maximize the usefulness of a single av receiver connected to a 3.1, 5.1 or 7.1, etc. speaker setup (utilizing 2 speakers as a center channel, located under the television). The same equipment will allow you to configure any of the speaker configurations already...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey Everyone,

I have a 75" screen with Revel in-wall W970 speakers as my left and right channels right next to the TV, and a horizontally mounted W970 above the TV.

I'm dealing with a problem that I'm sure some of you have, which is the Center channel above the screen is off axis so I have to pump the volume more there.

There's no way to put the center channel below the screen, however I had a crazy thought to possibly take the center channel speaker out, get another W970 speaker (which I already have), and mount them vertically right below my current left and right speakers. My thoughts for doing this are that a mono signal from left and right sources would sound like they're coming from directly in front of you. I know this is a radical idea but I'd love to get some expert thoughts on this, or if you have any alternatives for improving my situation.
I've attached a pic of my screen set-up so you can see for yourself.

Your post is not clear to me. Your center speaker looks centered, but what is the arrangement of the drivers? I have the feeling that this my be a two way speaker designed to be placed vertically.

In any event centers are a problem, and we have been over this many times. Most centers are horizontal MTM which should never be done.

There is no problem placing a center above the screen. Most heads with speech are above the center line.

In my theater I have the center above the screen and it sounds as if the sound is coming from the screen. You never localize to the speaker, and in the position it is, it gives very good dispersion throughout the room.

Placing the center below the screen would be a very poor option, and give bad speech clarity in the second and third rows.

I can advise you better when I know what your speakers are, preferably with pictures, or a link to pictures of them with the grills off.

 

[Hellerjon]

first question I have is why is adding a new center below the screen out of the question ? your center is very high up but id think the receivers set up would compensate for some of that height if not id raise the screen and install the center below where it would be easier to manage . just my opinion .

I can't raise the screen at this point. If you look closely there's a fake wall that I had built when the house was being built, and the screens is recessed into the wall. The TV is Eye-level. In theory I could add a traditional center channel below the screen on the table (I have a nice KEF one), but I would prefer to keep everything in-wall.

 

[Hellerjon]

Your post is not clear to me. Your center speaker looks centered, but what is the arrangement of the drivers? I have the feeling that this my be a two way speaker designed to be placed vertically.

In any event centers are a problem, and we have been over this many times. Most centers are horizontal MTM which should never be done.

There is no problem placing a center above the screen. Most heads with speech are above the center line.

In my theater I have the center above the screen and it sounds as if the sound is coming from the screen. You never localize to the speaker, and in the position it is, it gives very good dispersion throughout the room.

Placing the center below the screen would be a very poor option, and give bad speech clarity in the second and third rows.

I can advise you better when I know what your speakers are, preferably with pictures, or a link to pictures of them with the grills off.

I've thought about that option. My front speakers are Revel W970 https://www.revelspeakers.com/products/types/in-wall/W970-.html

I have the main speakers vertical with the tweeter downward firing since I installed them a little high, and I have the center speaker horizontal so the tweeter is on the left and the woofer cone is on the right.
I've been debating reinstalling it vertical but inverted so that way the tweeters for the left and right channels are are on a similar plane as the center channel tweeter.

My other big concern is that I have young children who are sleeping directly above when I get to use the system, and I don't want to have to compensate the off-axis with volume.

 

[Mark E. Long]

I can't raise the screen at this point. If you look closely there's a fake wall that I had built when the house was being built, and the screens is recessed into the wall. The TV is Eye-level. In theory I could add a traditional center channel below the screen on the table (I have a nice KEF one), but I would prefer to keep everything in-wall.

I would at least try the KEF center you have just to see if you like the change in the centers sound field . I see what you did with the screen nicely done but it does now limit your options on placement or at worst case redo the wall which I wouldn't want either . Good luck with your findings !!

 

[Trebdp83]

Those two rooms aren't really comparable. I still like that woodwork, though. Maybe a shade darker on the walls with just a touch of grey in it to really make the wood and color of the theater chairs pop. But, I digress. As for the OP's room, get two bookshelf speakers on the third shelf from the bottom of each unit. If that shelf is too shallow, move them down to the second shelf. Secure units to the wall. Move that plant, get a center channel speaker on top of the cabinet, light the now empty speaker niches and move some of the tchotchkes from the shelves over to them and call it good. Or, enlarge center niche and just turn the center channel and patch it up. Then, move those units a hair to get them off of the left and right speakers. Have you played with phantom center much? With the left and right so close, I can't imagine it not sounding fine. Where is the sub? Whatever you do, I hope you get it to sound just the way you like it. It is, after all, your system.

 

[TLS Guy]

I've thought about that option. My front speakers are Revel W970 https://www.revelspeakers.com/products/types/in-wall/W970-.html

I have the main speakers vertical with the tweeter downward firing since I installed them a little high, and I have the center speaker horizontal so the tweeter is on the left and the woofer cone is on the right.
I've been debating reinstalling it vertical but inverted so that way the tweeters for the left and right channels are are on a similar plane as the center channel tweeter.

My other big concern is that I have young children who are sleeping directly above when I get to use the system, and I don't want to have to compensate the off-axis with volume.

Your issue is that the center is horizontal. That produces a crazy lobing pattern. Job 1 is to turn that center 90 degrees with the tweeter in the bottom as the others are.

I had a look at those Revel speakers and as usual they post no information at all showing if it is fit for purpose, so you have to take it all on trust.

I think if you want better then you need to ditch in walls, especially ones open backed like those. That is not going to get you really excellent sound.

So I designed my own in wall system which is unlike any other. Even the sub is in wall. There will always be trouble on the lower end of in walls due to reinforcing and cancelling reflections from the wall. However you can build a very good system which can stand its own with free standing speakers. The huge advantage of in walls is to prevent cluttering the room and so WAF is high if you do it right.

If you are happy with the sound of the left and right speakers, then you will be happy if you get your center correctly orientated.

 

[Hellerjon]

Your issue is that the center is horizontal. That produces a crazy lobing pattern. Job 1 is to turn that center 90 degrees with the tweeter in the bottom as the others are.

I had a look at those Revel speakers and as usual they post no information at all showing if it is fit for purpose, so you have to take it all on trust.

I think if you want better then you need to ditch in walls, especially ones open backed like those. That is not going to get you really excellent sound.

So I designed my own in wall system which is unlike any other. Even the sub is in wall. There will always be trouble on the lower end of in walls due to reinforcing and cancelling reflections from the wall. However you can build a very good system which can stand its own with free standing speakers. The huge advantage of in walls is to prevent cluttering the room and so WAF is high if you do it right.

If you are happy with the sound of the left and right speakers, then you will be happy if you get your center correctly orientated.

That's what I'll probably do, however you mentioned something that I don't have. My main left and right speakers are tweeter on top but I set the tweeter to fire down off axis. Would you recommend that I just flip the L/R speakers upside-down to drop the tweeters down about 10 inches?

Also, No chance I'm ditching the In-walls as my wife likes the look and I have young children that I don't want near the speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

That's what I'll probably do, however you mentioned something that I don't have. My main left and right speakers are tweeter on top but I set the tweeter to fire down off axis. Would you recommend that I just flip the L/R speakers upside-down to drop the tweeters down about 10 inches?

Also, No chance I'm ditching the In-walls as my wife likes the look and I have young children that I don't want near the speakers.

Unfortunately I can not answer your question. The specs and details from Revel are useless and provide zero pertinenet information.

The problem is that the specs just say it is a high order crossover. That is not in the least helpful. If the electrical crossover is even order, then it would not matter if the center was upside down. If it is an odd order electric crossover then the lobing axis will be 15 degrees downward from the tweeter axis.

Since we don't know, then I would put the tweeter on top, then there will be no issue.

Can I just say one more time, I totally dislike most speaker companies and I'm so glad I'm not behoven to them.