need help, all 7 speakers in ceiling + subwoofer

[MasonSafari]

Hi All

we have a downstairs unit we used to rent out but not anymore ... so I am converting it to a home theatre ...
as the room is small and also have my wife on me, I cant use any normal speakers so I have been advised by the Home theatre specialist we can put all 7 speakers in ceiling + a wireless subwoofer so I can even get the Dolby Atmos ...

as the room ceiling is shallow , need to use the shallow dept speakers which I have been offered to chose between Triad IC33SD or Klipssch SLM -3400C ,

he suggested to install 3 on front of the screen ( on roof) and 2 exactly above our seating ( unfortunately there is no space behind the seating as I needed to use all the space ) and also another 2 just in front of the previous 2 ( 1 meter a part) ... also the screen size is 100" and seating 3.5m away from seating so the first 3 speakers are also around 3 meter from us ...please see the picture ...

my question is :
- is it any good layout ,
- can I get dolby atmos from it or at easy surround ?
- the 2 row of speakers, arent they very close to each other
- it is not easy but maybe possible to have the 2 in wall at left and right where we seat or even eliminate the 2 and have only row of 3 in front and row of 2 above our seating/

i need to finalise with the installer so I really appreciate if you advise

Thanks
Mason

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Is the ceiling where you’ve marked “projector” angled? It looks like a steep vault. It’s kinda hard to tell the shaoe of the room. Couple more pics maybe?
No. You can’t have an Atmos system in that room. Sorry, your installer is wrong about that. Here’s why, when he says you can.
Although Dolby has just now taken down the white paper links. Ugh...

http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/series_pdf/Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf

Basically you need to have a “bed layer” and a height layer. They work together by having space between them. You can’t have Atmos on a singular plane.

Also, while you definitely can put some gear in there, I don’t think you’ll get a great experience. Unless you get a little more invasive. What is your budget?

 

[TLS Guy]

Is the ceiling where you’ve marked “projector” angled? It looks like a steep vault. It’s kinda hard to tell the shaoe of the room. Couple more pics maybe?
No. You can’t have an Atmos system in that room. Sorry, your installer is wrong about that. Here’s why, when he says you can.
Although Dolby has just now taken down the white paper links. Ugh...

http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/series_pdf/Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf

Basically you need to have a “bed layer” and a height layer. They work together by having space between them. You can’t have Atmos on a singular plane.

Also, while you definitely can put some gear in there, I don’t think you’ll get a great experience. Unless you get a little more invasive. What is your budget?

Not Great, that is letting him down gently. That will be a truly awful experience and not worth the money.

I hate to have to say it, but he would be much better off with a sound bar. That installer sees dollars, and money for old rope.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Not Great, that is letting him down gently. That will be a truly awful experience and not worth the money.

I hate to have to say it, but he would be much better off with a sound bar. That installer sees dollars, and money for old rope.

Agreed. I was definitely wearing my kid gloves. Still working on first coffee! Lol

I think if he isn’t bound to IC the whole way, and the kitchen is gutted for a more apt front of the room. Maybe something can happen here. Retro fitting in that room will be tough no matter what, but if he’s got enough money AND cares enough. It’s not totally impossible. My hunch though, is a soundbar...cough....barf.... is gonna get it done.

 

[Trebdp83]

Is the bedroom off limits? How big is it? Maybe use it and keep the kitchen as a snack bar? Life happens and you may need to rent it again. If you can use the bedroom and not altar the layout it can be less of a headache later if you need to rent it out again or want to sell it. A mother-in-law suite/rental unit will be worth more to you if you decide to sell. I agree about the proposed speaker layout. It is a very bad one. Only the Atmos speakers belong on the ceiling. Find another room if you can to avoid using all in ceiling speakers or a soundbar.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So this will be a 5.1.2 system, but all the speakers will be in the ceiling?

The sound quality for Front Main 3 speakers will not be ideal for sure, as you've already seen the comments.

But it's better than a sound-bar and better than nothing.

What about Atmos and Surrounds? It will probably sound pretty good. I mean your in-ceiling Atmos speakers may even sound better than a lot of people's in-ceiling Atmos speakers if you get better speakers.

Personally, I would get in-ceiling speakers with 1" tweeter + 8" woofer.

For example, the JBL SP8CII has a 1" Titanium Tweeter + 8" Titanium Woofer:

Amazon.com: Buying Choices: JBL SP8CII 2-Way, Round 8-Inch In-Ceiling Speaker with Swivel Mount Tweeter (Pair)

SP8CII | Two-way, 8" (200mm) in-ceiling loudspeaker

A pair of JBL® SP8CII in-ceiling loudspeakers offers any home true JBL-quality sound without taking up valuable floor or shelf space. The SP8CII’s 8-inch (200-millimetre) titanium-laminate, low-frequency woofer delivers exceptional bass, while a swivel-mounted, titanium-laminate tweeter produces...

www.jbl.com

 

[MasonSafari]

Hi all, really appreciate your inputs…

Let me explain a little more : I hope this answer your questions

• One promise I made to my wife is that nothing will be exposed so we can use the area as it is when we are not using it as home theatre , so nothing should be exposed…so I am using the motorised pull down 100” screen in front of the kitchen ( I wanted to get rid of the kitchen but then who knows what might happen in future and we already spend more than $10k on it ) also no wires exposed also no speaker exposed so I need to chose between no sound at all or only in ceiling speakers and maybe one in wall speaker at right on the seating and 1 in the left of the seating ( below picture) , also I cant use the soundbar as it will be again exposed and also I don’t have any location for it .
• Also as I have a 4 year old one, and I will be watching moves when he is asleep, I wont be able to use the room sound anyway and I will be using my Sennheiser RS 185 RF Wireless but at the same time we might have friends and watch movies together so I should have audio with visual
• Maybe the picture was bad , the room is not that bad , please see more picture
• The thing is not only this home theatre seller but few other in Sydney advised that all in ceiling speakers are very common … but when I search through forums and web it is not
• So I will need to chose what I want to do with Audio , I might have below options
• Put all 7 speakers as installer advised ( 3 near screen) and 2 right above where we seat and the other 2 1 meter in front of it
• Use only 5 , so 3 near screen and only 2 above our seating
• Use 5 in ceiling , so 3 near screen and only 2 above our seating and 2 inwall at right and left where we seat ( something like Klipsch R-Series R-5650-W)
• Forget about Audio then also forget about the receiver and just get the projector HDM to Apple TV and also from Apple TV to my Sennheiser RS 185 RF. But f I do I wont be able to do any changes in future as I need to finish this project at once and for good
• Also please note as the ceiling has low cavity ( most likely the wall as well, so I will need to use low profile ( shallow dept) incelling /wall speakers…which been recommended TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C
• Also I use EPSON 9400W , also wants to use Denon AVR-X2600H as receiver , and I will place it where the Microwave at the moment in the pictures
• I want to use Klipsch R-12swi Wireless Subwoofer
• I will be using PLEX Mainly for my 1080 and 4k movie files through my office , computer and 2 NAS
• Ceiling is low , only 2.15m height
• Bedroom is not an option , also it is very smaller than this area

I am open to any suggestion within the limits I have

Thanks again

 

[Trebdp83]

Well, you couldn't have a more challenging space, could you? But, if your mind is made up, it is made up. So, if using a room in your main house is off the table then I would say forget it. But, if you cannot forget it and you absolutely must have it, I would still say forget it. I just wouldn't spend the money to altar that space for what will be a less than ideal visual and audio experience. I also wouldn't want to lose the use of the room as a rental unit or for visitors. If you decide to move forward with it, stick to 5 speakers in the ceiling. Atmos is not going to work as intended with your proposed setup. The fronts and surrounds need to be at ear level and just the Atmos speakers in the ceiling for it to work properly. Have you given thought to where the receiver and subwoofer would be placed in that environment? Do NOT put the receiver between the cooker and the sink!

 

[MasonSafari]

Well, you couldn't have a more challenging space, could you? But, if your mind is made up, it is made up. So, if using a room in your main house is off the table then I would say forget it. But, if you cannot forget it and you absolutely must have it, I would still say forget it. I just wouldn't spend the money to altar that space for what will be a less than ideal visual and audio experience. I also wouldn't want to lose the use of the room as a rental unit or for visitors. If you decide to move forward with it, stick to 5 speakers in the ceiling. Atmos is not going to work as intended with your proposed setup. The fronts and surrounds need to be at ear level and just the Atmos speakers in the ceiling for it to work properly. Have you given thought to where the receiver and subwoofer would be placed in that environment? Do NOT put the receiver between the cooker and the sink!

thanks , yep I made up my mind at least for the screen and projector, provided there is no cable and also rolling down screen and all speaker in ceiling, I am not altering much of the area ...also ther eroom is dark even in day and if I close the windows shouldn't be that bad experiences at least for visual ...I will also put the receiver where there is microwave in photos ...I think I will stick with 5 in ceiling speakers , for the 5 in ceiling do you think the 3 should be neat the screen and the other 2 above our seating? also as I have to use the low profile inceiling , which of the below you think is better TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C ? also I wan to use Klipsch R-12swi Wireless Subwoofer so I should be able to move it around the room where I ahve power outlet... also will be using Denon AVR-X2600H ...I appreciate your extra thoughts and advises

 

[Trebdp83]

Be careful with that microwave shelf. The Denon x2600 weighs in at just over 34 pounds/9 kilograms. Perhaps, have it reinforced for the extra weight? Maybe put it on a turn table with some cable slack so that you can access cables when necessary. You never think you will have to get back there after installation and then something goes wrong and there you are trying to get behind it in a tough spot. See about sampling each speaker before choosing one of them. The cut out dimensions are different between the two of them.

 

[Pogre]

How can you call it a "home theater room" when you're not allowed to set it up like a home theater? What you propose is pretty far from any kind of a good HT experience.

 

[Trebdp83]

This from the guy who put his screens on upside down. You will have to excuse Pogre. He’s been playing his music really loudly and it’s destroyed his hearing as well as his manners.

 

[Pogre]

This from the guy who put his screens on upside down. You will have to excuse Pogre. He’s been playing his music really loudly and it’s destroyed his hearing as well as his manners.

Sorry, but 7 speakers in the ceiling is not home theater. It's just not. If it's all you can do then that's all you can do. Not what I would call a home theater room tho.

 

[Trebdp83]

Lights dim, Pogre begins to sing, “But a room is not a house... and a house is not a home theater!”

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, the new pictures show at least some potential. Again, Atmos won’t work here, but you’ll at least get better than a soundbar performance. Fwiw, I would put the surrounds in the wall and not the ceiling. That might help with immersion and not sounding like everything is coming from a single plane. I saw you mention Triad. And I would definitely choose them over Klipsch. I would also choose a different sub than Klipsch, but not sure what your options are. Seems like the installer is after a money grab, so keep coming with questions, or things that they tell you that might seem sketchy. There’s enough of us here to help. Probably!!!

 

[MasonSafari]

Well, the new pictures show at least some potential. Again, Atmos won’t work here, but you’ll at least get better than a soundbar performance. Fwiw, I would put the surrounds in the wall and not the ceiling. That might help with immersion and not sounding like everything is coming from a single plane. I saw you mention Triad. And I would definitely choose them over Klipsch. I would also choose a different sub than Klipsch, but not sure what your options are. Seems like the installer is after a money grab, so keep coming with questions, or things that they tell you that might seem sketchy. There’s enough of us here to help. Probably!!!

Thanks William
So you digesting putting 2 in walls and 3 in ceiling in front of screen and 2 above our head would work better than our only 5 in ceiling ?
Which in wall speaker I should use? Can I use the same in ceiling triads in wall instead of in ceiling ? Although does Triad have subwoofer ? I read positive reviews in the wireless Klipsch subwoofer

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks William
So you digesting putting 2 in walls and 3 in ceiling in front of screen and 2 above our head would work better than our only 5 in ceiling ?
Which in wall speaker I should use? Can I use the same in ceiling triads in wall instead of in ceiling ? Although does Triad have subwoofer ? I read positive reviews in the wireless Klipsch subwoofer

Not quite what I meant but close. I would go three in front, two in walls to the sides of the couch, and slightly behind. About where the tv is now. NOT, put any in the ceiling. IMO, those would be to serve as Atmos heights. With the front 3 in the ceiling, you won’t have any height difference between the LRC and height speaker. In short, Atmos won’t be effective. So save some money on an AVR, and a pair of speaker and put that towards a better subwoofer. Klipsch makes passable subs, but I’m comfortable speaking for the group(on this at least) when I recommend finding something else. It seems you’re “down undah “ so I’m not sure what’s available to you. SVS I believe, but more costly there than the US.
People seem to associate IC with round and IW with rectangular and Ime IW designs are usually better in performance. So I would look at the IW62. They do make subs, but aren’t known for them. IW and IC subs need not apply for many reasons, and I can’t recommend their in room subs as I don’t have experience with them.

 

[MasonSafari]

[/QUOTE]

Not quite what I meant but close. I would go three in front, two in walls to the sides of the couch, and slightly behind. About where the tv is now. NOT, put any in the ceiling. IMO, those would be to serve as Atmos heights. With the front 3 in the ceiling, you won’t have any height difference between the LRC and height speaker. In short, Atmos won’t be effective. So save some money on an AVR, and a pair of speaker and put that towards a better subwoofer. Klipsch makes passable subs, but I’m comfortable speaking for the group(on this at least) when I recommend finding something else. It seems you’re “down undah “ so I’m not sure what’s available to you. SVS I believe, but more costly there than the US.
People seem to associate IC with round and IW with rectangular and Ime IW designs are usually better in performance. So I would look at the IW62. They do make subs, but aren’t known for them. IW and IC subs need not apply for many reasons, and I can’t recommend their in room subs as I don’t have experience with them.

Thanks William
so I assume there will be only 3 in front of the screen on ceiling and only 2 on the walls as in below picture...when you said saving on the AVR , you mean get something rather than Denon 2600? what would be suffice...I will need to think of the visual as I will have few input like Ruko and apple TV and also Chrome cast ...Also not sure if I can source Tannoy iW 62TDC in Australia , can I use the same TRIAD TSIC33 SD for the left right in walls? also which SVS subwoofer has wireless as again cant afford the wires

 

[MasonSafari]

I just found out that none of the in ceiling speakers would fit in my ceiling ( only 10mm cavity ) which are TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C dont have amiable tweeters so it means all of them just point only down so I think having 3 in front of screen would make no sense as we cant aim them to our seating

so I think the only option would be : Only 3 just above the seating and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left ???? to get at least something like 5.1? as below picture : what do you think?

 

[Trebdp83]