Sub on Sub Violence

[jcbower]

Going through the process of upgrading a few components in my audio system. Started with the AVR, checked off the center channel second, now working on subs. Quick comparison question...

Looking at two subs & having a difficult time understanding the value at different price points based on the specs provided. Can someone in the know explain to this audio noob the value prop between the two subs linked below. Thanks in advance!

Paradigm Defiance X15
Paradigm Prestige 1000SW 12"

 

[shadyJ]

Going through the process of upgrading a few components in my audio system. Started with the AVR, checked off the center channel second, now working on subs. Quick comparison question...

Looking at two subs & having a difficult time understanding the value at different price points based on the specs provided. Can someone in the know explain to this audio noob the value prop between the two subs linked below. Thanks in advance!

Paradigm Defiance X15
Paradigm Prestige 1000SW 12"

The Defiance X15 would have a very substantial performance increase over the Prestige sub. However it is much larger and doesn't have as nice of a finish. If you are after raw performance, go for the Defiance, but if you need something that is small and looks nicer, the Prestige is the one. The larger cabinet and woofer of the Defiance sub means that it can generate far more output per watt than the Prestige sub. Its design makes it much more efficient, but the larger size is a consequence of that efficiency. The Defiance is also a much newer sub, and it benefits from newer and better technology than the Prestige sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just using a retailer's page for information won't yield much usually, may not even give you an idea of what market pricing actually is let alone a good set of specs. Some manufacturer's own pages aren't much better either. Better to find full specs/measurements but that can be challenging outside of a limited number of reviews/testing that does that (like shadyj's reviews here on AH). You can't tell much from your links in any case,.

 

[jcbower]

The Defiance X15 would have a very substantial performance increase over the Prestige sub. However it is much larger and doesn't have as nice of a finish. If you are after raw performance, go for the Defiance, but if you need something that is small and looks nicer, the Prestige is the one. The larger cabinet and woofer of the Defiance sub means that it can generate far more output per watt than the Prestige sub. Its design makes it much more efficient, but the larger size is a consequence of that efficiency. The Defiance is also a much newer sub, and it benefits from newer and better technology than the Prestige sub.

Hey shadyJ. Thanks! I suspected as much based on what I had already researched. I didn't think the slight bump in power of the Prestige would compensate for the difference in driver size. I'm in a situation where it's a dedicated theater room and the subs will be located in dead space behind the rounded corners of a c-shaped theater coach. The size or appearance of the x15 isn't a concern, especially not when I can get two x15's for less then one prestige 1000sw.

Thanks again for the quick reply.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW the amp power alone isn't all that meaningful, depends somewhat on box type, dsp needs, system sensitivity....

Why just these two subs, btw?

 

[jcbower]

FWIW the amp power alone isn't all that meaningful, depends somewhat on box type, dsp needs, system sensitivity....

Why just these two subs, btw?

I haven't necessarily narrowed down my purchase options to these two subs, but while considering and comparing the two during my search I didn't understand the value add of the more expensive option outside of "oooo pretty!"

To your previous reply. I simply linked the retailer site to communicate the quick and dirty details / prices I was looking at as I didn't think the comparison at this point needed narrowing to the very specifics. Something I'll likely get down to when comparing multiple options around the same price range.

I'm open to recommendations though! Interested in buying two subs and comfortable in the $1,000 - $2,000 CAD per sub range.

 

[shadyJ]

A dual Defiance X15 system would be absolutely killer. Read the Audioholics review if you haven't yet.

 

[jcbower]

A dual Defiance X15 system would be absolutely killer. Read the Audioholics review if you haven't yet.

Just read it now. Thanks for linking. On that note, am I right in believing that in general ported subs tend to be preferred for movies whereas sealed subs are preferable for music?

 

[shadyJ]

Just read it now. Thanks for linking. On that note, am I right in believing that in general ported subs tend to be preferred for movies whereas sealed subs are preferable for music?

In general, yes, but that is based on really cheap subs. At the price and design level of the subs you are looking at, there wouldn't be any serious difference, in fact the Defiance subs have better time domain performance than a lot of sealed subs.

 

[KEW]

Just read it now. Thanks for linking. On that note, am I right in believing that in general ported subs tend to be preferred for movies whereas sealed subs are preferable for music?

I just wanted to let you know (because it is not obvious) that ShadyJ is James Larson, who measures and reviews most of the subs and speakers for AudioHolics (including the Paradigm Defiance X15 review)!

 

[lovinthehd]

I think equating ported/ht and sealed/music belongs with choosing a sub by amp power About the particular sub design/execution rather than the generality.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think equating ported/ht and sealed/music belongs with choosing a sub by amp power About the particular sub design/execution rather than the generality.

Yep. Agreed.

 

[jcbower]

I just wanted to let you know (because it is not obvious) that ShadyJ is James Larson, who measures and reviews most of the subs and speakers for AudioHolics (including the Paradigm Defiance X15 review)!

Thanks KEW. It wasn't obvious!

Greatly appreciate all the feedback. Trying to get my system sorted after years of neglect. Saying I still have a lot to learn is an understatement, but I'm picking up bits and pieces each day thanks to all of you!

Trying to get the AV components sorted before the reno of my HT & Games room begins. In ceiling ATMOS speakers are next... I'm sure I'll have questions there.

In the meantime.. check this out. I had a metal fabricator and separate woodworker build me an AV stand to sit below my mounted TV. All metal work is bent / welded / finished by hand & the (currently unfinished) wood top is Bocote. The grain should darken significantly once finished.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks KEW. It wasn't obvious!

Greatly appreciate all the feedback. Trying to get my system sorted after years of neglect. Saying I still have a lot to learn is an understatement, but I'm picking up bits and pieces each day thanks to all of you!

Trying to get the AV components sorted before the reno of my HT & Games room reno begins. In ceiling ATMOS speakers are next... I'm sure I'll have questions there.

In the meantime.. check this out. I had a metal fabricator and separate woodworker build me an AV stand to sit below my mounted TV. All metal work is bent / welded / finished by hand & the (currently unfinished) wood top is Bocote. The grain should darken significantly once finished.

How much does that weigh? Looks like it's pretty sturdy

 

[KEW]

Cool! That AV stand could have come right out of a Mad Max movie!

 

[jcbower]

How much does that weigh? Looks like it's pretty sturdy

Haven't received it yet, hopefully this Friday... but the guy who built the metal portion said I could park a car on it. lol

 

[KEW]

Haven't received it yet, hopefully this Friday... but the guy who built the metal portion said I could park a car on it. lol

Yeah Bocote is definitely not Balsa wood. That slab is probably somewhere north of 50 lbs on its own (I assume it is a solid ~1" thick piece)!

 

[jcbower]

Yeah Bocote is definitely not Balsa wood. That slab is probably somewhere north of 50 lbs on its own (I assume it is a solid ~1" thick piece)!

4 65" length boards. Apparently they were the last four bocote boards left in the whole province. Crafter did a nice job planing and combining.

 

[jcbower]

Yeah Bocote is definitely not Balsa wood. That slab is probably somewhere north of 50 lbs on its own (I assume it is a solid ~1" thick piece)!

This is the finished product now that the woods been sealed.. Going to pick it up Monday!