AV Receiver connected with old integrated amplifier

[Danimaimi65]

Hi, I currently own a Yamaha A RX 1080 receiver which I connected to a Sansui A X911 DG integrated amplifier pre-out to line.
The Yamaha is connected to a Klipsch RP 500c and the Sansui to JBL L100 Classic. It’s a 3.0 configuration.
I have recently read that insufficient voltage gain in the AV can lead to lower performing audio form the amplifier. Honestly it all sounds great, but would love to learn more

 

[Pogre]

I don't understand why you have an integrated amplifier connected to a receiver? Why not just use the Yamaha on its own?

 

[Danimaimi65]

I don't understand why you have an integrated amplifier connected to a receiver? Why not just use the Yamaha on its own?

Because it has a lot more RMS power, better bios unit, it can handle 4ohm speakers better too

 

[Pogre]

Because it has a lot more RMS power, better bios unit, it can handle 4ohm speakers better too

You're using the Yamaha to power your speakers if I'm reading it correctly, yes? The old Sansui isn't really adding anything... if you're concerned about preouts voltage then just use the Yamaha by itself. That's what I'd do.

 

[Danimaimi65]

Because it has a lot more RMS power, better bios unit, it can handle 4ohm speakers better too

To elaborate note. Sansui is an old unit that I hadn’t used in ages, got it recapped, and it works a lot better with 2 channel music, that listen to a lot, than the AV receiver

 

[Danimaimi65]

You're using the Yamaha to power your speakers if I'm reading it correctly, yes? The old Sansui isn't really adding anything... if you're concerned about preouts voltage then just use the Yamaha by itself. That's what I'd do.

The Sansui is connected to the JBL front, Yamaha only to center

 

[Pogre]

To elaborate note. Sansui is an old unit that I hadn’t used in ages, got it recapped, and it works a lot better with 2 channel music, that listen to a lot, than the AV receiver

They way you describe the setup you're not using any of the Sansui power supply. What you're hearing right now is all coming from the Yamaha.

 

[Pogre]

To elaborate note. Sansui is an old unit that I hadn’t used in ages, got it recapped, and it works a lot better with 2 channel music, that listen to a lot, than the AV receiver

And works better how? They should both sound the same unless something is wrong with one of them. The Yamaha has plenty of power unless you sit really far away.

 

[Danimaimi65]

And works better how? They should both sound the same unless something is wrong with one of them. The Yamaha has plenty of power unless you sit really far away.

Thank you for the clarification

 

[Pogre]

Thank you for the clarification

I didn't clarify anything. I asked a question...

That Sanusi receiver specs at 100 WPC into 8 ohms and the Yamaha receiver specs at 110 WPC, 2 channel driven into 8 ohms. So the Yamaha is actually more powerful. Not by much, but it is. So I don't know where you got the idea that the Sansui "has a lot more RMS power" because it doesn't. If you just like the old gear that's fine, but you're not gaining any advantages the way you have it connected. If anything your giving up some power for stereo music.

You came here seeking some advice, but got all adversarial when I asked a question or 2... ?

 

[lovinthehd]

First, the 1080 looks to have the superior amp section, particularly for 4 ohms (the Sansui is rated 100wpc at 8 ohm, 120wpc at 4 ohm per the manual).

How did you level match the channels using the Sansui as power amp? Did you re-run YPAO? Seems all the inputs (and the best would be the processor in) on the Sansui have low input sensitivity and wouldn't think the Yamaha has any issue with pre-out voltage level.

 

[Danimaimi65]

When I connected Yamaha by itself, it didn’t have the same sound, now I know that a lot is in our mind and not in reality, perhaps it’s my case, the guy that recapped my Sansui is a big expert in this and concurred. I am not adversarial, my thank you was genuine

 

[lovinthehd]

When I connected Yamaha by itself, it didn’t have the same sound, now I know that a lot is in our mind and not in reality, perhaps it’s my case, the guy that recapped my Sansui is a big expert in this and concurred. I am not adversarial, my thank you was genuine

Another consideration it was simply a level difference....humans tend to think something slightly louder is better. Sonic memory is also not very reliable so without a valid comparison hard to come to a particular conclusion as to what's going on. That's one reason why I was asking how you integrated the amp with the Yamaha.

 

[lovinthehd]

And works better how? They should both sound the same unless something is wrong with one of them. The Yamaha has plenty of power unless you sit really far away.

Or not level matched? Hopefully both amps are transparent, tho.

 

[Danimaimi65]

Decision came out of conversations with a couple guys very well versed in this, but I am open to other people’s thoughts (thus me here)
Talking about level match, Sansui is set at half volume, after testing with ypao, which

Another consideration it was simply a level difference....humans tend to think something slightly louder is better. Sonic memory is also not very reliable so without a valid comparison hard to come to a particular conclusion as to what's going on. That's one reason why I was asking how you integrated the amp with the Yamaha.
[/QUO

 

[Pogre]

Or not level matched? Hopefully both amps are transparent, tho.

That's a good point too. Even a db or 2 difference between the 2 amps can be perceived as sounding "better".

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with the setup, but it does add another level of complexity and doesn't really offer any gains.

 

[Pogre]

Decision came out of conversations with a couple guys very well versed in this, but I am open to other people’s thoughts (thus me here)
Talking about level match, Sansui is set at half volume, after testing with ypao, which

What he means there is that there could be a difference in gain structure between the 2 amps which could create an imbalance in volume levels between your center and mains. It could also explain why you think the Sansui sounds better when you switch between them. If you have a good db meter you can level match manually, but I don't see a way for you to use the Yamaha's built in room correction (YPAO) the way you have it connected.

 

[Danimaimi65]

What he means there is that there could be a difference in gain structure between the 2 amps which could create an imbalance in volume levels between your center and mains. It could also explain why you think the Sansui sounds better when you switch between them. If you have a good db meter you can level match manually, but I don't see a way for you to use the Yamaha's built in room correction (YPAO) the way you have it connected.

When using TIDAL thru Node DAC, i use Sansui with direct 2 channel, manual measurements I did led me to set Sansui to half volume and Center speaker to +2db

 

[Pogre]

When using TIDAL thru Node DAC, i use Sansui with direct 2 channel, manual measurements I did led me to set Sansui to half volume and Center speaker to +2db

Have you tried just the Yamaha by itself? By that I mean did you run YPAO and take all 8 measurements? What's nice about that is it will automatically set all your levels, distances and some EQ (I think EQ, not super familiar with Yamaha units today). I think I would repurpose the Sansui in a dedicated 2 channel system in another room or something. Right now it sounds like you're using the Yamaha to power 1 speaker? How are you doing that? Is your center speaker plugged into the center channel output on the Yamaha and you're using Dolby surround? You said 3.0 so no side or rear speakers?

 

[lovinthehd]

Decision came out of conversations with a couple guys very well versed in this, but I am open to other people’s thoughts (thus me here)
Talking about level match, Sansui is set at half volume, after testing with ypao, which

What guys? What did they say? So what happened when you ran ypao? You left it hanging....