Need Help with New Kef R11 Speaker System for Mixed Use

[Jigetz]

Hey Everyone - I have been in the hifi headphone game a little but now and am looking to up my speaker game in a big way and have some questions on the gear:

I am open top opinions! This system will be 70% used for movies and TV and 30% for music...

• Kef R11 - L/R
• Kef RC2 - Center
• No sub - I’ve been reading that the R11’s have very good base response. I think I will add one later but its a the part I can do down the road.
• Upgrading to Marantz 5014 Receiver
  • Q: I was also looking at the Yamaha 2080 or Dennon x3600h - would these make a big difference? I know some of this is down to personal preference in sound.
• Adding in one of the following 3 Channel Ampliers:
  • Emotiva XPA - Gen 3 - 275w Per Channel
  • Schiit Vidar Mono Blocks - 400w Per Channel (in mono)
  • Are there other better or equal options? I can’t seem to find many 3 channel amps. Do I even need to amp the R2c?

Any thoughts on the proper AVR and Amplifier I should be using or suggestions on other tweeks?

Thanks!

 

[PENG]

• Q: I was also looking at the Yamaha 2080 or Dennon x3600h - would these make a big difference?

Thanks!

The X3600H would, because it has XT32 Sub EQ HT and you can use the Editor App for fine tuning/customizing. It can process 7.1.4, and can disconnect the front left and right internal amps if you want to pair it with a large power amp for two channel use.

I know some of this is down to personal preference in sound.

That is actually not entirely true. Those personal preference are mostly due to people listening with their eyes. If they can't see which one is doing the job, there is no way they can tell the difference between those 3 AVRs you mentioned, when no sound processing is used. With sound processing, the Yamaha may not sound the same as the Denon and Marantz, but the Denon and Marantz will sound the same, all else being equal.

 

[Jigetz]

That is exactly why I was looking at the x3600H - it has the right pre-outs I would need and the room correction seems to be the best. The problem is it is not in stock anywhere. The A2080 and 5014 are but the price difference is quite big between the two.

I have read that the room correction on the Marantz isnt as good as the Denon or so it would seem per my research. Have you noticed a difference?

 

[PENG]

That is exactly why I was looking at the x3600H - it has the right pre-outs I would need and the room correction seems to be the best. The problem is it is not in stock anywhere. The A2080 and 5014 are but the price difference is quite big between the two.

I have read that the room correction on the Marantz isnt as good as the Denon or so it would seem per my research. Have you noticed a difference?

Absolutely not true if you compare their equivalent models. Denon and Marantz have the exact same processors and Audyssey versions for the following models:

SR6014 = AVR-X3600H
SR7013 = AVR-X4500H

There are some differences such as:
- Marantz has the 7.1 analog inputs, Denon has eliminated those useless connections except they do keep them in the flagship AVR-X8500H
- Marantz has HDAMs, that is a marketing strategy imo, because even if it is as good as they claim, it won't make a difference because the weakest link is upstream. Measurements after measurements show they might actually introduce more distortions in the signal chain. The Denon X3600H measured better than even the Marantz AV7705 and the AV8805 under some conditions. The X4500H should do even slightly better.
- Marantz 6000/7000 series apparently use gold plated rca connectors.

The SR5014 has no blood relation on the Denon line, but like Denon's lower models below the X3600H, it has Audyssey XT that is not very good but could do a good job depending on you room and your expectation.

 

[Verdinut]

@PENG

With the SR5011 which only features Audyssey XT, I could use the editor app. Is there any drawback compared to the XT/32 if the app is only to be used for frequencies of 300 Hz and lower?

 

[Ponzio]

Hey Everyone - I have been in the hifi headphone game a little but now and am looking to up my speaker game in a big way and have some questions on the gear:

I am open top opinions! This system will be 70% used for movies and TV and 30% for music...

• Kef R11 - L/R
• Kef RC2 - Center
• No sub - I’ve been reading that the R11’s have very good base response. I think I will add one later but its a the part I can do down the road.
• Upgrading to Marantz 5014 Receiver
  • Q: I was also looking at the Yamaha 2080 or Dennon x3600h - would these make a big difference? I know some of this is down to personal preference in sound.
• Adding in one of the following 3 Channel Ampliers:
  • Emotiva XPA - Gen 3 - 275w Per Channel
  • Schiit Vidar Mono Blocks - 400w Per Channel (in mono)
  • Are there other better or equal options? I can’t seem to find many 3 channel amps. Do I even need to amp the R2c?

Any thoughts on the proper AVR and Amplifier I should be using or suggestions on other tweeks?

Thanks!

The 2080 YPAO may not be as accurate in the Room EQ department initially, as compared to Audyssey or so I'm told, but it has way more flexibility with it's LAN web-based GUI to modify the settings, after you don the initial EQ mic sweeps for the room/listening position.

I have a Yammy RX-A3070, A3040 & A2040, so I'm a bit prejudiced.

Love the KEF L/R/C speaker choices btw. While the bass response is very good for the R 11's, especially for music, you may want to add a sub or two ... even better ... for home theater and it will widen the sound stage for the music too. Combine them with the Emotiva amp and you should be golden.

Enjoy, whatever you decide to get.

 

[lovinthehd]

The spec on the R11 is 30hz but down 6dB, so I wouldn't call that a sub-beater by any means.

 

[Jigetz]

Totally agree that it is not a sub-beater but with everything I am about to purchase I may have to wait few months before I buy a new dedicated sub. I think I am going to go with the SR6014 w/ the speakers and the Emotiva Amp. Just gotta stop sweating and pull the trigger!

 

[PENG]

The 2080 YPAO may not be as accurate in the Room EQ department initially, as compared to Audyssey or so I'm told, but it has way more flexibility with it's LAN web-based GUI to modify the settings, after you don the initial EQ mic sweeps for the room/listening position.

The Audyssey Editor App allows you to enter your own data points manually. It costs $20, but it works good if you download some freeware to enter the data point by point instead trying to draw the target curve with the finger.

 

[PENG]

@PENG

With the SR5011 which only features Audyssey XT, I could use the editor app. Is there any drawback compared to the XT/32 if the app is only to be used for frequencies of 300 Hz and lower?

XT32 has much higher resolution than XT. If you use the Editor App you can fine tune/customize your target curve so it should help a lot. You need REW/Mic otherwise you would be flying blind.

 

[Verdinut]

XT32 has much higher resolution than XT. If you use the Editor App you can fine tune/customize your target curve so it should help a lot. You need REW/Mic otherwise you would be flying blind.

View attachment 36242

Have you had an opportunity to try Dirac Live? I would think it would have more measurement positions than Audyssey XT32. but is it more complicated to configure its settings? I have been thinking of getting the Minidsp DDRC-88A processor, as I figure it could also help correcting room acoustics problems.
But thinking further about the situation, a 2 channel Dirac processor might most likely be sufficient as the major acoustic problems would normally originate with the front left and right speakers which produce more SPL. What's your opinion?

 

[PENG]

Have you had an opportunity to try Dirac Live? I would think it would have more measurement positions than Audyssey XT32. but is it more complicated to configure its settings? I have been thinking of getting the Minidsp DDRC-88A processor, as I figure it could also help correcting room acoustics problems.
But thinking further about the situation, a 2 channel Dirac processor might most likely be sufficient as the major acoustic problems would normally originate with the front left and right speakers which produce more SPL. What's your opinion?

I did, and I posted a Dirac vs XT32 graph a while back. It was a trial two channel version that I used with my LS50 and BMR speakers. The UI is prettier but I wouldn't say it is easier. It has more selections in terms of positioning but I don't remember what the maximum allowable positions is but according to their website, it is typically 9.

Something I find very interesting is the popularity of the minidsp. I suspect it is because of the great UI, being PC based. In actual use, I find it is a waste of money when Audyssey (least it is with XT32+App) can do a better job. If used Dirac, then yes, as it would then be a necessity, as one of the few possibilities.

 

[red_kk]

Hey Everyone - I have been in the hifi headphone game a little but now and am looking to up my speaker game in a big way and have some questions on the gear:

I am open top opinions! This system will be 70% used for movies and TV and 30% for music...

• Kef R11 - L/R
• Kef RC2 - Center
• No sub - I’ve been reading that the R11’s have very good base response. I think I will add one later but its a the part I can do down the road.
• Upgrading to Marantz 5014 Receiver
  • Q: I was also looking at the Yamaha 2080 or Dennon x3600h - would these make a big difference? I know some of this is down to personal preference in sound.
• Adding in one of the following 3 Channel Ampliers:
  • Emotiva XPA - Gen 3 - 275w Per Channel
  • Schiit Vidar Mono Blocks - 400w Per Channel (in mono)
  • Are there other better or equal options? I can’t seem to find many 3 channel amps. Do I even need to amp the R2c?

Any thoughts on the proper AVR and Amplifier I should be using or suggestions on other tweeks?

Thanks!

I have the same system as yours KEF R11 + R2C which is being powered by a 10yr old Pioneer receiver which is not bad, I actually quite like it. I'm just wondering if that old receiver is doing any justice to the new KEFs.

What did you end up with finally? How does your system look like and any suggestions or learnings you'd like to share?

 

[Pogre]

Totally agree that it is not a sub-beater but with everything I am about to purchase I may have to wait few months before I buy a new dedicated sub. I think I am going to go with the SR6014 w/ the speakers and the Emotiva Amp. Just gotta stop sweating and pull the trigger!

I would consider a good subwoofer before a separate amp, unless your speakers are unusually difficult to drive. You'll get a much more noticeable bump in overall sound quality, imo. Even with music. Offloading those bass frequencies to a good sub can lighten the load on your speakers and amp, allowing them to focus on the frequencies they're best at. My experience was a better soundstage and more effortless sound, and my speakers' lf performance is similar to yours. -6 dB at 30 hz is definitely not a full range speaker.

*Edit: Just noticed the date of the op...

 

[Pogre]

I have the same system as yours KEF R11 + R2C which is being powered by a 10yr old Pioneer receiver which is not bad, I actually quite like it. I'm just wondering if that old receiver is doing any justice to the new KEFs.

What did you end up with finally? How does your system look like and any suggestions or learnings you'd like to share?

I would say that if your receiver is still functioning correctly getting a new one won't offer much aside from getting you updated if that's a factor. Otherwise if you're reaching desired volume levels without clipping or distorting that ol' receiver should be just fine.

Which Pio do you have?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The spec on the R11 is 30hz but down 6dB, so I wouldn't call that a sub-beater by any means.

It's 46Hz @ -3dB.

It has 4 x 6.5" woofers, so that's equivalent to having dual 9" woofers.

R11 Flagship Three Way Floorstanding Speaker | KEF

Flagship three-way floorstander The largest model in the R Series combines four bass drivers and the latest generation Uni-Q for a powerful and refined sound With hybrid aluminium bass drivers and a 12th generation Uni-Q for mid and treble the mighty R11is extremely capable. Using technology...

us.kef.com

 

[Pogre]

It's 46Hz @ -3dB.

It has 4 x 6.5" woofers, so that's equivalent to having dual 9" woofers.

R11 Flagship Three Way Floorstanding Speaker | KEF

Flagship three-way floorstander The largest model in the R Series combines four bass drivers and the latest generation Uni-Q for a powerful and refined sound With hybrid aluminium bass drivers and a 12th generation Uni-Q for mid and treble the mighty R11is extremely capable. Using technology...

us.kef.com

-3 dB at 46 hz? My Sierra towers actually dig a little deeper with -3 dB at 41 hz! I'd recommend a sub with those even more strongly then.

 

[red_kk]

I would say that if your receiver is still functioning correctly getting a new one won't offer much aside from getting you updated if that's a factor. Otherwise if you're reaching desired volume levels without clipping or distorting that ol' receiver should be just fine.

Which Pio do you have?

Thanks for the response. I have a Pioneer VSX 1021-k I'm surprised it is performing very well and I'm actually happy with it. Since I can't do A/B test i'm just wondering if i'm doing justice to the KEF's with this receiver. Feature wise I'm pretty happy as I can do Airplay and stream all my tidal/spotify content. For Video I don't use the receiver for source switching so it doesn't matter to me that it doesn't support 4k.

So based on what you mentioned it seems like getting a sub is going to help offloading the amplifiers in the receiver.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks for the response. I have a Pioneer VSX 1021-k I'm surprised it is performing very well and I'm actually happy with it. Since I can't do A/B test i'm just wondering if i'm doing justice to the KEF's with this receiver. Feature wise I'm pretty happy as I can do Airplay and stream all my tidal/spotify content. For Video I don't use the receiver for source switching so it doesn't matter to me that it doesn't support 4k.

So based on what you mentioned it seems like getting a sub is going to help offloading the amplifiers in the receiver.

That's what I think. If you don't have a sub at all right now I think adding one (or 2!) into the mix and setting it up correctly will offer you a lot more in the way of sound quality. Good subwoofage does more than just add bass. Clean, effortless undistorted bass is something you just have to experience to really get it. I have a pair of 15" ported subs, but set up in such a way that the effect is subtle. Just there to support those bottom octaves. They don't stand out at all and are all but impossible to detect. When I turn them off tho, the difference is obvious. You can tell something is missing.

Speakers first I always say, then subwoofers. Followed closely by room and positioning. Those are going to have the most impact, hands down. Amps fall fairly low on the scale for me when I'm looking for audible improvements. Amps and receivers are more about having sufficient or even a little more power than you need, features and number of channels. All else being equal they should sound more the same than different. Transparent and accurate.

I think you're pretty set for speakers. Those RF11s are really nice!

 

[red_kk]

Awesome! Thanks for your insight. I know a local dealer who can sell me a REL sub 'at cost' plus taxes. So that is something i'll look into.

Also like you mentioned setting up the correctly receiver to the room changed everything for me. The sales guy who sold the KEFs to me at bestbuy was beyond amazing! he stopped by my home and spent an hour calibrating the receiver. He is a bass guitarist so he went by the ear and his experience to do the setup. It just bought my 10yr old receiver to a whole new level.