Both YPAO and MCACC are ruining my mids.

[pcosmic]

So how come you own so much gear from asia?

I own a sole piece of Chi-fi gear, a Jungson Class A integrated and i love it as much as my Yam integrated amp or more. My speakers (ELACs) are German, my Rythmik sub was made in Texas (my home state) and my PS Audio DAC is American (from Colorado). But, since, Chifi is a sensitive topic for you lad, I will say "Chi-fi sucks" just to keep a patriot like you happy. Go my lad, go sing a song, keep the tee tees calm and stay happy. Don't type on a China Made computer and respond on this thread again. Stay loyal to wherever you are from and pull a non-China made computer outta yer arse (if you feel like typing again). Thank you, God bless.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Back when I was using DEQ for a long time, I never thought it boosted the high treble. Or at least not that I could actually hear with my hearing acuity, which is probably 30Hz-15kHz.

But the bass boost was easily detectable.

Well this might explain some of it then...looks like the rise starts around 8k and rises to about 15k.

 

[lovinthehd]

I own a sole piece of Chi-fi gear, a Jungson Class A integrated and i love it as much as my Yam integrated amp or more. My speakers (ELACs) are German and my PS Audio DAC is American. But, since, Chifi is a sensitive topic for you lad, I will say "Chi-fi sucks" just to keep a patriot like you happy. Go my lad, go sing a song, keep the tee tees calm and stay happy. Don't type on a China Made computer and respond on this thread again. Stay loyal to wherever you are from and pull a non-China made computer outta yer arse (if you feel like typing again). Thank you, God bless.

Your Yamahas are from asia, likely your Elacs as well. BS Audio it matters little where they're from. Just kinda dumb in this global world to focus on this sort of terminology...

 

[3db]

Three Yamahas in 3 different rooms from the most simple of YPAO from the RX-V1500 to the more complex RX-A3060 and YPAO all did a very commendable job for watching movies and improved my ,listening experience. For music always in 2 channel, I always run Pure Direct with no room EQ or bass management and I enjoy the sound there as well.

 

[pcosmic]

Your Yamahas are from asia, likely your Elacs as well. BS Audio it matters little where they're from. Just kinda dumb in this global world to focus on this sort of terminology...

Well, i am glad you've seen the light.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, i am glad you've seen the light.

What light? You been squeezing your own titties again or something?

 

[pcosmic]

Three Yamahas in 3 different rooms from the most simple of YPAO from the RX-V1500 to the more complex RX-A3060 and YPAO all did a very commendable job for watching movies and improved my ,listening experience. For music always in 2 channel, I always run Pure Direct with no room EQ or bass management and I enjoy the sound there as well.

You could still try to manually "blend in" a sub if you're running pure direct without bass management. Music without a finely integrated sub is missing something man.

 

[DJ7675]

One of the interesting findings regarding “pure direct” in Amir’s measurements... it has no affect on measurements. While I don’t doubt the manufacturers in regards to what it does, it just has no affect. Maybe it may have some affect on a unit that hasn’t been measured on yet, but for now I would be very skeptical regarding a Pure Direct mode sounding better. Worse yet, the notion of pure direct sounding better can discourage them from using EQ, in particular where the room is dominating the sound. Under 2-500 there can be massive, clearly audible issues that can be made much much better with EQ. Whether the EQ are simple cuts with a few PEQs or running Audyssey, ARC, or Dirac. An otherwise good sounding system can sound bad IMHO if the bass region isn’t dealt with. Now with a measurement tools, careful placement of speakers and listening position and some room treatment these issues can of course be minimized, but many of these systems are in regular living rooms where these options are limited and EQ will be necessary. When I see people recommending not using EQ and going pure direct, it just makes me think they are missing out.

 

[lovinthehd]

One of the interesting findings regarding “pure direct” in Amir’s measurements... it has no affect on measurements. While I don’t doubt the manufacturers in regards to what it does, it just has no affect. Maybe it may have some affect on a unit that hasn’t been measured on yet, but for now I would be very skeptical regarding a Pure Direct mode sounding better. Worse yet, the notion of pure direct sounding better can discourage them from using EQ, in particular where the room is dominating the sound. Under 2-500 there can be massive, clearly audible issues that can be made much much better with EQ. Whether the EQ are simple cuts with a few PEQs or running Audyssey, ARC, or Dirac. An otherwise good sounding system can sound bad IMHO if the bass region isn’t dealt with. Now with a measurement tools, careful placement of speakers and listening position and some room treatment these issues can of course be minimized, but many of these systems are in regular living rooms where these options are limited and EQ will be necessary. When I see people recommending not using EQ and going pure direct, it just makes me think they are missing out.

The difference in setting of direct to pure direct is often merely turning off the lcd panel....bfd.

 

[EBN]

That’s because both of those don’t use any Room EQ. Just use Pure Direct or Through Mode to bypass all Room EQ.

I didn’t even use YPAO when I got my RX-A3080 a few days ago. No room EQ for me. Just Direct.

Do you have external device for subwoofer eq?

Regarding the new Yamaha models fingers crossed they have listened more serious hobbyist and reviewers who has said for years that YPAO is not as effective in the low frequencies where it´s needed most! If they won´t design better "auto" correction to compete with XT32/Dirac/ARC then atleast offer more bands for the manual PEQ which is still too limited. The engineers must know this. I just can´t believe why they can´t make it happen as it`s same old song every year. Now with the app on Audussey lot of people are going to pick D&M. I understand that more features needed to bring every year, but there must be different engineers designing the own house YPAO. They need to hire @PENG clearly. Then things will finally go forward in the right direction!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you have external device for subwoofer eq?

Regarding the new Yamaha models fingers crossed they have listened more serious hobbyist and reviewers who has said for years that YPAO is not as effective in the low frequencies where it´s needed most! If they won´t design better "auto" correction to compete with XT32/Dirac/ARC then atleast offer more bands for the manual PEQ which is still too limited. The engineers must know this. I just can´t believe why they can´t make it happen as it`s same old song every year. Now with the app on Audussey lot of people are going to pick D&M. I understand that more features needed to bring every year, but there must be different engineers designing the own house YPAO. They need to hire @PENG clearly. Then things will finally go forward in the right direction!

Yes. I use my RX-A3080 in Pure Direct Mode with the RBH SA-500DSP sub amp, which has manual parametric EQ.

On my CX-A5100, which I normally use Straight Mode, not Pure Direct mode, I use the CX-A5100's manual Parametric EQ.

And since I only manual EQ the bass region from 40-80Hz, I don't need 10 or 12 bands of PEQ for that.

However, I see no harm in offering a 10 or 12-band PEQ for people who want it.

 

[PENG]

Peng, I finally got good results using the Editor app in conjunction with the mini! I used it for one gentle bump at 110 hz for the main speakers and it helped my fr! It was a measurable difference. Right now I'm wishing I would have saved those measurements, damnit.

How gentle, in dB? Can you share the curves with and without the mini in the equation?

 

[Pogre]

How gentle, in dB? Can you share the curves with and without the mini in the equation?

4 dB bump, as tight a Q as I could manage. I didn't save any of the sweeps tho.

The predicted bump in "after" is not there. It's within +/- 3 dB from 110 to 16 hz. +/- 2 dB from 100 and down.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You could still try to manually "blend in" a sub if you're running pure direct without bass management. Music without a finely integrated sub is missing something man.

You mean when using Pure Direct mode, you have to output the main front Left/Right channels to the Sub Amp for bass? That's what I do since Yamaha will not output any Sub/LFE signal in PD mode.

I wish Yamaha would allow Sub/LFE output in PD mode. But at least Yamaha gave us the XLR balanced outputs for the Main Front L/R channels.

But I think @3db feels that his towers provide enough good bass even without the use of additional subs.

 

[EBN]

Yes. I use my RX-A3080 in Pure Direct Mode with the RBH SA-500DSP sub amp, which has manual parametric EQ.

On my CX-A5100, which I normally use Straight Mode, not Pure Direct mode, I use the CX-A5100's manual Parametric EQ.

And since I only manual EQ the bass region from 40-80Hz, I don't need 10 or 12 bands of PEQ for that.

However, I see no harm in offering a 10 or 12-band PEQ for people who want it.

Good. Then you will get half pass from Amir too!

"Let me be clear about something: NO audio system has good performance without EQ of bass frequencies. Period.

If you have tried an EQ system and it did not work well, then keep searching. The difference with proper bass correction is dramatic."

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Good. Then you will get half pass from Amir too!

"Let me be clear about something: NO audio system has good performance without EQ of bass frequencies. Period.

If you have tried an EQ system and it did not work well, then keep searching. The difference with proper bass correction is dramatic."

There are a few things I agree with Amir.

One - the Bass EQ below 200Hz.

Two - Amir also feels that no Auto Room EQ will give him the exact sound he wants. I feel the same. Auto EQ may FLATTEN the in-room response, but it doesn't give me the sound I want.

@pcosmic - As for Amir's measurements - it seems any company can figure out what he measures, replicate the measurements, and then TWEAK the electronics so that the numbers look better - if they care about his reviews like Emotiva cares.

 

[DJ7675]

Two - Amir also feels that no Auto Room EQ will give him the exact sound he wants. I feel the same. Auto EQ may FLATTEN the in-room response, but it doesn't give me the sound I want.

He uses Dirac. I think below 300hz. He likes what it does for the bass in his Salon 2s. For his informal quick speaker tests he uses roon for 1-2 PEQs.

 

[3db]

You could still try to manually "blend in" a sub if you're running pure direct without bass management. Music without a finely integrated sub is missing something man.

I do for classical music that contains pipe organ. My speakers handle everything else to my satisfaction.

 

[PENG]

There are a few things I agree with Amir.

One - the Bass EQ below 200Hz.

Two - Amir also feels that no Auto Room EQ will give him the exact sound he wants. I feel the same. Auto EQ may FLATTEN the in-room response, but it doesn't give me the sound I want.

@pcosmic - As for Amir's measurements - it seems any company can figure out what he measures, replicate the measurements, and then TWEAK the electronics so that the numbers look better - if they care about his reviews like Emotiva cares.

I would say:

One - You based your preference on what you heard in your room right? Amir's good performance, as we ought to know by now, is, based on measurements. So you may agree with him a little more yet.

Two - Me too, and I do customize my target (Subwoofers only so far) a little. As I always said, it's better to have REQ to set a flat target curve first, then everyone can make changes to their liking. I don't think A(Anthem) ARC should start with that slope up towards the low end because we all likely have our own preference so why impose something on us. I realize AARC's default target can be changed, so no big deal either.

 

[PENG]

He uses Dirac. I think below 300hz. He likes what it does for the bass in his Salon 2s. For his informal quick speaker tests he uses roon for 1-2 PEQs.

Well, he has just been influenced (was going to say converted but they would be wrong..) by the AVR-X3600H. He now obviously feel comfortable enough to recommend Audyssey as well, with caveats such as "App is mandatory...", and alluded to Dirac Live had better features/user interface (that's just my take).

Here's his conclusions:

Audyssey Room EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I came into this review expecting Audyssey to not perform. That was my experience and that of formal blind testing of it years back. The out of box results of this "XT32" version was better than I remembered. Still, using the App is mandatory to properly incorporate a target curve with more bass and removal of "BBC dip." Once there, I had no issues with its performance and I think it comes very close to advanced solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.