Any opinions on good cheap av receivers?

[sizzam]

I currently run a pioneer vsx1130k with a integrated sabre dac but I am wondering what other options are out there for sub 500$ (I purchased mine used) for some good contrast on quality and performance.

Pioneer VSX-1130-K – AV Receiver Reviews

av-receivers.net

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-1130-K_Single_Sheet_EN.pdf

For convenience I posted some links.

P.S. inspiration for this post

P.P.S To expand on this thread further what I am asking is what people would consider to be their top picks if they could choose any av receivers out there under or around 500$ or so. I want to get several opinions on what kinds of setups they would shine in and what qualities they have over another.

 

[lovinthehd]

Contrast of what? Room EQ? DSP modes?

 

[sizzam]

Contrast of what? Room EQ? DSP modes?

overall quality and features that work well.

 

[KEW]

This is what I would do (it is refurbished, but has a one year warranty via Denon:

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Reason - comparable or better power than most other AVR's in this price range, but also has Audyssey XT32 and is compatible with the DM MultEQ app for your phone (or tablet) - plan to also spend $20 for this app, it is what makes Audyssey work so well!
Accessories4Less is a favorite source for electronics (and speakers) around here!

 

[sizzam]

This is what I would do (it is refurbished, but has a one year warranty via Denon:

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Reason - comparable or better power than most other AVR's in this price range, but also has Audyssey XT32 and is compatible with the DM MultEQ app for your phone (or tablet) - plan to also spend $20 for this app, it is what makes Audyssey work so well!
Accessories4Less is a favorite source for electronics (and speakers) around here!

It looks nice but compared to specifically my 165W peak per channel (Pioneer vsx1130k) how efficient is it? The features look very good but unfortunately my mains are bi-amped atm. other than that yea this looks like a good buy.

 

[lovinthehd]

overall quality and features that work well.

Build quality? Are there avrs where features are known to not work well (aside from defective units of course)? I've had a Pioneer with MCACC and have Denons with both Audyssey XT and XT32 and I preferred Audyssey, but MCACC also had some nice features.....more a preference thing.

Unfortunately most avrs come with that silly passive bi-amp feature. Most avrs are using class AB amps and are roughly the same efficiency. Is your Pioneer one of the ones with class D amps? They would be more efficient than class A, but I don't think that model is one of them. Not a significant difference in amp spec:

Specs for the 3300 from its manual:
Front:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Center:105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Surround:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Surround back:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.

Specs for the 1130 from its manual:
Amplifier section (VSX-1130)Continuous average power output of 100 watts* per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to 20 000 Hz with no more than 0.08 %** total harmonic distortion.Front (stereo) ......................................................................................................................................100 W + 100 W
Power output (1 kHz, 6 ohm, 1 %, 1 ch driven) ............................................................................................................165 W

 

[sizzam]

Build quality? Are there avrs where features are known to not work well (aside from defective units of course)? I've had a Pioneer with MCACC and have Denons with both Audyssey XT and XT32 and I preferred Audyssey, but MCACC also had some nice features.....more a preference thing.

Unfortunately most avrs come with that silly passive bi-amp feature. Most avrs are using class AB amps and are roughly the same efficiency. Is your Pioneer one of the ones with class D amps? They would be more efficient than class A, but I don't think that model is one of them. Not a significant difference in amp spec:

Specs for the 3300 from its manual:
Front:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Center:105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Surround:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)Surround back:105 W + 105 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)135 W + 135 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.

Specs for the 1130 from its manual:
Amplifier section (VSX-1130)Continuous average power output of 100 watts* per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to 20 000 Hz with no more than 0.08 %** total harmonic distortion.Front (stereo) ......................................................................................................................................100 W + 100 W
Power output (1 kHz, 6 ohm, 1 %, 1 ch driven) ............................................................................................................165 W

Thanks for this its very informative, In a nutshell the denon has comparable features and slightly more watts per channel vs the pioneer which has more "bubble power" for a single speaker for more dynamic oomph?

I've gotten used to how mccac works for me and i get very good imaging and a relatively flat response curve after some eq.

The dennon does seem like a good choice for an upgrade later down the line or for when my current amp gives up.

Also as far as build quality goes what I mean is how good the capacitors are aswell as how well built the board layout is and how good the heat dissipation is.

 

[lovinthehd]

The specs aren't quite the same, hard to say they're much different in any case. Most avrs aren't going to have drastically different amp sections, most will be within a dB or two of each other outside the bare bones models. Generally the strongest amp sections will come with their upper end models from each brand. Good thing to have a full set of pre-outs to give some flexibility depending on your needs (and the pre-outs tend to come with the better models, something your 1130 doesn't have). The Pioneer I had died of hdmi board issues just after warranty expired (a 919).

You can look at tested amp performance with the bench testing here for the 1130 https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-vsx-1130-av-receiver-review-test-bench

The 3300 you can review tested performance here https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

AVRs don't always have the best layouts or heat sinking, you can try and find various pics if you can interpret them or for specific components, but will take some effort to find....

 

[sizzam]

The specs aren't quite the same, hard to say they're much different in any case. Most avrs aren't going to have drastically different amp sections, most will be within a dB or two of each other outside the bare bones models. Generally the strongest amp sections will come with their upper end models from each brand. Good thing to have a full set of pre-outs to give some flexibility depending on your needs (and the pre-outs tend to come with the better models, something your 1130 doesn't have). The Pioneer I had died of hdmi board issues just after warranty expired (a 919).

You can look at tested amp performance with the bench testing here for the 1130 https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-vsx-1130-av-receiver-review-test-bench

The 3300 you can review tested performance here https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

AVRs don't always have the best layouts or heat sinking, you can try and find various pics if you can interpret them or for specific components, but will take some effort to find....

I read up on those 2 articles and I see the denon has some more robust settings and has lots going strong for it (power ratings seem very good in comparison), is it possible to daisy-chain the denon with my current av receiver?
(running my mains through the pioneer in biamp mode and running the rest from the denon)

 

[lovinthehd]

Before going to any lengths to passively bi-amp, try this https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

I'd just use the Denon. It does have a full set of pre-outs if you want to add a more powerful amp, too.

 

[sizzam]

Before going to any lengths to passively bi-amp, try this https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

I'd just use the Denon. It does have a full set of pre-outs if you want to add a more powerful amp, too.

I read up on that and yea that all makes sense what my pioneer is doing is passive bi-amping vertically* I believe, I can tell you that the difference is definitely noticeable from a response curve on these specific speakers (the frequency curve has a bump in the 80-200hz range for good stereo bass), however in the future i think ill plan on looking into a active crossover style av receiver setup using something like the denon or whatever may be available at the time. cheers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, why not look at different speakers/subs for better ways of seeking improvements? What do you have now?

 

[sizzam]

Curious, why not look at different speakers/subs for better ways of seeking improvements? What do you have now?

I am currently broke as i dont have any money to spare so I was looking at cheap ways to make my setup better my setup is on this thread but my room has been rearranged for a better listening experience.

Judge my setup

Hello i'm new here and would like some judgements and suggestions on my setup currently. ;) Components so far: Turntable - audio technica AT-LP60 with an external (Dynasty ProAudio DA-UA2D) preamp and a LP GEAR CFN3600LE stylus. Receiver - pioneer vsx1130 Mains - "DOGG" digital...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[slipperybidness]

This is what I would do (it is refurbished, but has a one year warranty via Denon:

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Reason - comparable or better power than most other AVR's in this price range, but also has Audyssey XT32 and is compatible with the DM MultEQ app for your phone (or tablet) - plan to also spend $20 for this app, it is what makes Audyssey work so well!
Accessories4Less is a favorite source for electronics (and speakers) around here!

I agree, the hunt for a good AVR starts with the Denon 3XXX series. Look for last year's model (or older as in your link), and try for that magic $500 -$550 price point on it.

 

[KEW]

It looks nice but compared to specifically my 165W peak per channel (Pioneer vsx1130k) how efficient is it? The features look very good but unfortunately my mains are bi-amped atm. other than that yea this looks like a good buy.

The specs for your unit are:

6 Ohms: 165 W per channel (1 kHz, THD 1.0%, 1-channel driven FTC)
8 Ohms: 100 W per channel (20 Hz-20 kHz, THD 0.08%, 2-channel driven FTC)

The part I made bold reflects conditions designed to inflate the power spec and should not be used for comparison!
The 100W rating for the Pioneer is comparable to the 105 watt rating for teh Denon.
However, an important difference is that the Pioneer is only rated to handle speakers with a minimum impedance of 6 Ohms while the Denon is good down to 4 ohms! What this means is that the Denon has a better transformer/power supply and can handle higher current!
It is simply a more capable amplifier.

 

[KEW]

OH!
I just looked at your system thread!
Are you still running those white van speakers?
If so forget the new receiver!
The Pioneer does not seem to be a bad unit.
Instead get a pair of these for $345 (plus ~$12 shipping)

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

That will make a huge difference!
If DCM still is selling the TFE speakers on Ebay, that is also a good/better option!

 

[sizzam]

The specs for your unit are:

The part I made bold reflects conditions designed to inflate the power spec and should not be used for comparison!
The 100W rating for the Pioneer is comparable to the 105 watt rating for teh Denon.
However, an important difference is that the Pioneer is only rated to handle speakers with a minimum impedance of 6 Ohms while the Denon is good down to 4 ohms! What this means is that the Denon has a better transformer/power supply and can handle higher current!
It is simply a more capable amplifier.

that makes sense I dont have any speakers that are below 6 ohm so i dont usually worry about it but my old pioneer is running pretty warm. (sounds good though)

 

[sizzam]

OH!
I just looked at your system thread!
Are you still running those white van speakers?
If so forget the new receiver!
The Pioneer does not seem to be a bad unit.
Instead get a pair of these for $345 (plus ~$12 shipping)

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

That will make a huge difference!
If DCM still is selling the TFE speakers on Ebay, that is also a good/better option!

I am still running them however i've brought them to my local a/v store before the quarantine and had them make sure they are safe to use and if the speakers are filled with concrete or anything.

They had told me that the speakers are safe to use and wont start any fires or anything and that the speakers themselves are not bad in the sound department so ill hold off on new speakers till i can save up and get a 1000$+ pair of nice floorstanders with real subs built in with good bass output for good stereo bass.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am still running them however i've brought them to my local a/v store before the quarantine and had them make sure they are safe to use and if the speakers are filled with concrete or anything.

They had told me that the speakers are safe to use and wont start any fires or anything and that the speakers themselves are not bad in the sound department so ill hold off on new speakers till i can save up and get a 1000$+ pair of nice floorstanders with real subs built in with good bass output for good stereo bass.

I'd definitely hold off on the different avr until after you get better speakers/sub setup. If the Pioneer is running warm a relatively inexpensive fan can help cool it/extend its life. Floorstanders don't generally have "subs" nor is the best positions for the L/R speakers usually the best for sub(s) and as far as stereo sub bass, most of it is summed to mono in recordings.

 

[sizzam]

I'd definitely hold off on the different avr until after you get better speakers/sub setup. If the Pioneer is running warm a relatively inexpensive fan can help cool it/extend its life. Floorstanders don't generally have "subs" nor is the best positions for the L/R speakers usually the best for sub(s) and as far as stereo sub bass, most of it is summed to mono in recordings.

I'd think that depending on the mix of some things 100-500hz would be stereo for bass. But ill get a cheap fan to cool my receiver, and what I meant by subs are actually just some good mid-bass woofers. But in any case I'll have to save up a few dollars to really bump my sound quality up

P.S. I was making this thread to find out several options for receivers, as far as my tower speakers go i think im gonna grab a pair of these bi-poled speakers.
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefq750wln/kef-q750-6.5-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-walnut-each/1.html