Odd large room assistance :-S

[SimplyEpic]

Hello all,
I am new to the scene and looking to setup my first system. I have a large difficult room to work with that is approximately 25 feet long by 15 feet wide. One side is only separated by a counter top to the kitchen while the other side has 20 foot cathedral windows. The ceiling ion the room peaks at 22 feet. To make things bit more fun the corner near the TV has a built in entertainment alcove at about a 25 degree angle. This wall is where the 65 inch TV is mounted and is centered and buts up against the alcove. The far wall opposite the TV has large sliding glass doors.

With all of that out of the way I am looking to spend about $5000 on a complete setup and not looking to add any speakers to the ceiling. I will be using it for mostly Music and not especially worried about the movie experience since we have been used to just the TV speakers (bad I know) so anything will be a significant improvement. I put together a simple system off of the little research I have done and was thinking similar to my beautiful sounding setup I have in my office for my computer (Logitech Z906 5.1 in a small room with my desk centered between the speakers) I kept the theme of 4 identical satellites and a center with powered sub-woofer.

I was thinking about a Denon AVR-X3600H or 4500 if it goes on sale with 4 Klipsch RP8000F floor speakers, the Klipsch RP504C center speakers and the Klipsch SPL-120 sub. I would like to eventually add a 5 channel amp but have no idea where to even begin but thought it would be best to see the performance with the setup I end up with and add as needed.

Any thought on how to tame this odd room or if there is other equipment you would recommend I am eager to learn. I have been looking up information on the terms and marketing practices of audio manufacturers to help and unfortunately with the current issues in the world finding a place to sample the equipment is not an option especial since I live in the country.

Thanks in advance for any info and I look forward to being schooled

 

[SimplyEpic]

If this helps these are old but show what the room is like. The mirror is where the TV is now and the seating has been replaced and faces the TV.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Good news and bad news.

The good news is that in my experience, large-irregular rooms like this have great potential acoustically, because they are less susceptible to room modes.

The bad news is, with all those hard surfaces everywhere, it’s going to be a hopeless “echo chamber.” But I’m sure you already know that.

Since your proposed system is mainly for music, there’s no reason to get four speakers. Just stick with a stereo pair. Ideal surround sound for movies requires a room layout conducive to maximizing the experience.

I get the impression you intend to keep the TV in that corner, which totally destroys any chances of having a realistic audio experience for movies (see here for details on everything that’s wrong about corner set-ups).

All the more reason to just stick with stereo. Which is good news really, as this will also allow you to save money by simply getting a stereo receiver or integrated amplifier. A sub will be beneficial for both music and movies, so get one that has bass management and a subwoofer output.

Good news on the sub: Pass on the Klipsch. For the same money you can get one from Hsu or SVS that will annihilate it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Pogre]

And lots of subwoofage too. That's a big area to fill that requires size and power.

 

[SimplyEpic]

Thanks for the response. I will take a look into those other options. Also if I am just doing say a 3.1 setup I can invest more in each component and still stay at the same budget. As for the TV it is actually square to the room. The corner makes it a little harder to set the speakers equally. Living room picture is just taken from a corner. The alcove is where the components will be with the TV above the fireplace with the couch facing it directly. I originally was thinking the music would be upmixed to 5.1 with the extra speakers for more dynamic sound.

This is great information.

 

[SimplyEpic]

Would there be any recommendations on equipment for a 3.1 or 3.2 setup? Seems like the 4500 or 3600 would be wasting channels although it will still be nice to even use 3.x system for movies.

 

[SimplyEpic]

This was my original thought on the basic layout with the Center speaker not listed but would be below the TV.

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks for the response. I will take a look into those other options. Also if I am just doing say a 3.1 setup I can invest more in each component and still stay at the same budget. As for the TV it is actually square to the room. The corner makes it a little harder to set the speakers equally. Living room picture is just taken from a corner. The alcove is where the components will be with the TV above the fireplace with the couch facing it directly. I originally was thinking the music would be upmixed to 5.1 with the extra speakers for more dynamic sound.

This is great information.

With the TV in place of the mirror...it's obviously better than the aclove spot...your CC will be a little challenging.

hi res multi-ch music is better than I ever expected so I wouldn't settle for stereo knowing what I know now. Klipsch is a respected brand and they make a nice product...my experience, they sound brighter than the actual recording when compared to the same music played back thru speakers noted to be neutral...a lot of people like the "Klipsch" sound.

You're going to have a very live room no matter what you do....maybe not the best fit for a bright speaker. I'm sporting the HSU subs...definitely recommend those. Off the top of my head...an OEM speaker I like for such a live room...the Martin Logan motion 40...they will lean more towards the warm side especially compared to the Klipsch, but in that space maybe a nice balance...with subs these will have enough SPL to fill your large space. The larger 60 may appeal more...these were stock speakers at BB Magnolia centers.

 

[SimplyEpic]

I do like the look of the Martin Logan Motion 40I's especially in the red walnut finish. I would have to order the HSU sub as I don't see any places near me that carry them.Best buy has the 40i's for $900 right now and the matching center speaker is on sale as well. Should I be looking for a different receiver or would one of the Denon's fit the bill still.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

If you’re going to re-arrange the room, then that’s a game-changer and you can disregard my previous post – you’ll benefit from a 5.1 system.

You don’t need a lot of amplifier power with Klipsch speakers. Maybe you can put some money into additional subwoofage as Pogre recommended.

My main concern is that after spending all that money: It’s still going to sound bad, because I’m sure that room is a echo-chamber...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Jeff R.]

I would consider removing the corner alcove permanently. Do you know if there is hardwood floors below it? There is a good chance there are. Even if that cost you some money out of the speaker budget it may be worth it.


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[2channel lover]

I do like the look of the Martin Logan Motion 40I's especially in the red walnut finish. I would have to order the HSU sub as I don't see any places near me that carry them.Best buy has the 40i's for $900 right now and the matching center speaker is on sale as well. Should I be looking for a different receiver or would one of the Denon's fit the bill still.

Subs...in a space as large as yours...to pressurize that, even one enormous sub is most likely not going do the job properly...by properly, I mean the bass is not going to sound the same throughout the seating areas. Ideally you want 2 subs to balance out the bass.

ML 40...it's a nice floorstander (really more suited for a smaller room) but with ample subwoofage, they will work fine unless you're trying to reach reference level volume. As mentioned earlier...the ML 60 is the big brother... may as well listen to them both if you get the chance.

AVR...if you can get the 3600...save the money.

 

[SimplyEpic]

I definitely will be working towards reference volume and the space is used for entertainment especially around the holidays. I think I will start with a 3.1 system and get the higher end speakers I can and build up to a 5.2 with some bigger subs (12+ inch vs the 10 I was looking at). I also have to look into Amps since I am sure I will need one in the near future to help the system in this large space.

 

[2channel lover]

If reference volume is in your plans...demo both still but in that size space the large ML60 might be the better choice.

Subs...don't skimp here with a 12" sub...go all in with a 15".

Adding the second later is okay, but they do have incentives to buy two at once.

VTF-2 MK5 Subwoofer

Introducing the VTF-2 MK5, the epitome of affordability and value in the renowned HSU lineup. This subwoofer is designed to cater to budget-conscious enthusiasts without compromising on quality or performance. Most affordable and budget-friendly subwoofer One of the smallest subwoofers so it...

www.hsuresearch.com

Entry point 15" sub with variable tuning....this should be your starting point in this brand...I got two of the model up from this one....my space is 18'x16'x9' open to some other large vaulted spaces.

Whatever you do...don't under sub with a 12". I'd rather see you get one 15" and balance it out later when funds permit.

 

[SimplyEpic]

I would consider removing the corner alcove permanently. Do you know if there is hardwood floors below it? There is a good chance there are. Even if that cost you some money out of the speaker budget it may be worth it.


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Unfortunately there are not hardwood floors below the alcove. I do want to get rid of it and do modifications around the fireplace to add a surround and mantle to put the center speaker on but it will also require some reflooring which kills any budget for audio. That's a future project after I get a few other improvements done to the kitchen appliances and getting a paved driveway.

The fun never ends.

 

[SimplyEpic]

Will see where my budget takes me but now I get to choose between the VTF2-MK5 and the VTF-3 So many choices and so hard when all you can do is go off others opinions. I do love the knowledge you have been presenting. I always knew this room would be a challenge at best but this information helps alot.

I have also started looking at amps for the future and was looking at the Marantz MM7705. I think thi should help when I get to the 5.2 setup especially as long as I can keep the subs powered.

 

[Jeff R.]

Are you open to any DIY options on Subs? You could do a could couple of DIY Dayton kits and come out nicely. You will not have some of the ultra low bass like sub 25 hz. But a pair of 15 sealed boxes with a nice pro audio amp will be plenty for most of not all music.


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[SimplyEpic]

That's an idea. I even have a friend who enjoys woodworking so I may even be able to add some flare to the cabinet...hmmmmm.......

That would be a passive sub and would need to be powered by an amp since I don't think the AVR would be able to push it properly especially with 5 other speakers attached correct?

 

[nbk13nw]

That's an idea. I even have a friend who enjoys woodworking so I may even be able to add some flare to the cabinet...hmmmmm.......

That would be a passive sub and would need to be powered by an amp since I don't think the AVR would be able to push it properly especially with 5 other speakers attached correct?

You would either need a separate amp for the sub or a plate amp for the sub. I prefer a separate amp.

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[Jeff R.]

I run a pair of 15” diy sealed ultimax with the kits. I power with a crown xls 2500 amp and have more than enough power in a large open area for music. I do have a little trouble with ultra low bass in movies. But not worthy of complaining.


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