Speaker matching?

[Jayb1977]

Hello, I have a set of Klipsch 5.1 speakers. I believe they are the quintets. I am remodeling my basement and looking to put in-wall speakers in front and use what I have for surround L-R and rears. I have a Marantz receiver that will handle the 7.1 or 7.2 with still having room for multi-room capabilities. So my question is what speakers should I use for fronts? Does it matter that much as long as the 3 fronts are matched?

 

[Movie2099]

Hello, I have a set of Klipsch 5.1 speakers. I believe they are the quintets. I am remodeling my basement and looking to put in-wall speakers in front and use what I have for surround L-R and rears. I have a Marantz receiver that will handle the 7.1 or 7.2 with still having room for multi-room capabilities. So my question is what speakers should I use for fronts? Does it matter that much as long as the 3 fronts are matched?

What is your budget? Many in-wall speaker options out there and prices are all over the place. $100-$2000/speaker.

 

[Jayb1977]

What is your budget? Many in-wall speaker options out there and prices are all over the place. $100-$2000/speaker.

I don’t want to spend a small fortune, but I’m not looking for the cheapest crap. Mainly use the system for watching sports or playing games, movies once in awhile but it’s not our primary set up

 

[TLS Guy]

I don’t want to spend a small fortune, but I’m not looking for the cheapest crap. Mainly use the system for watching sports or playing games, movies once in awhile but it’s not our primary set up

Most in walls are not very good. Make sure you get ones with backs that are enclosed. The one with the rear of the drivers opening into the wall are rubbish.

In walls are actually very difficult to design. I just did, as I don't believe there are many decent ones around, unless they are a king's ransom. You are welcome to build mine or have them built, but you will need a deeper wall space then a 2 X 6 gives. So you would probably have to increase the depth of the wall. This post contains attachments of the full design.

 

[Movie2099]

I don’t want to spend a small fortune, but I’m not looking for the cheapest crap. Mainly use the system for watching sports or playing games, movies once in awhile but it’s not our primary set up

If you want a decent in-wall speaker for your mains, expect to pay around $500/each at least. TLS is correct, make sure to get ones that are enclosed. The overall price will be more, but it definitely makes a difference. Plus, you want to spend the most on your front 3 vs sides and surrounds.

I have the B&W 7.3's. They are a very good, higher end in-wall. I have them powered by an external amp that's feeding them about 200w/channel.

If you like Klipsch, they have plenty of in-wall speakers to choose from. You'll find tons of videos online that talk about them. If you like horn loaded speakers they are the way to go. JBL is another one for horn loaded.

Martin logan, B&W, Sonance, RBH, all make really nice in-wall speakers. RBH has a very solid lineup of different sizes and prices. You'll find some RBH dealers on this website that could probably give you a great deal.

I know right now Best Buy has discounted some of their higher end in-walls. I saw recently they discounted their B&W 7.4's down to $300/each and they usually go for $800/each. They also discounted one of their Atmos speakers down to $300/each when regular price is $700/each. They are trying to move the older stock for the "newer" models. Best time to get some nice stuff for dirt cheap.

 

[Mr._Clark]

My limited experience with in-wall speakers is that they have significantly reduced performance at a given price point compared to conventional speakers.

I have not heard any on-wall speakers (not sure if that's an option for you), but I'm skeptical they can match decent conventional speakers at a given price point. I'd be very interested with any experiences others have had with on-wall speakers.

If your only option is in-wall, in my opinion, matching will be the least of your worries. I'd try to find the best possible speakers within budget and let matching issues fall where they may (Full disclosure: I tend to think the importance of speaker matching is overstated in many cases, especially for mid and lower cost systems, but my view is probably a minority view)(In other words, take my opinion with a grain of salt)(edit: I am not a Klipsch fan, so the thought of matching Klipsch speakers likely induced some cognative dissonance that influenced my comment).

I have 3 Aperion Intimus 6LCR in-wall speakers* and Aperion L6IC in-ceiling speakers in a 5.2 system in one room, and I have Aperion Verus Grand speakers in another room.** At one time I had identical Marantz AVRs and Oppo Blu ray players for both systems. I tried playing various Blu rays in both systems (I realize this is an apples to oranges comparison in terms of cost). There was a significant difference in sound quality.

The Aperion in-walls are definitely better than the in-wall speakers that were installed in the house when I bought it. Thus, I can say with certainty that there are worse in-wall speakers. The Aperion in-walls are also much better than the speakers in the TVs I've used in the system.

If you have very modest expectations, you might be happy with the Aperions or other in-wall speakers in that range. I'd recommend looking into building your own boxes if you go this route.

I have tried researching in-wall speakers to replace the existing in-wall speakers in an effort to get performance closer to that of free-standing speakers. I basically gave up. That's not to say they don't exist, but the effort exceedeed my patience threshold. Part of the problem in this quest has been my inability to find honest-to-goodness testing for in-wall speakers. Perhaps the data is out there and I've just missed it, but right now I'm not willing to spend a significant amount of money on an in-wall upgrade without having more data to go on.


*https://www.audioholics.com/outdoor-speaker-reviews/aperion-audio-intimus-6-lcr-in-wall-speakers

**https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/verus-grand (I have an SVS PB13 Ultra sub, not the Aperion sub)

 

[Movie2099]

My limited experience with in-wall speakers is that they have significantly reduced performance at a given price point compared to conventional speakers.

I have not heard any on-wall speakers (not sure if that's an option for you), but I'm skeptical they can match decent conventional speakers at a given price point. I'd be very interested with any experiences others have had with on-wall speakers.

If your only option is in-wall, in my opinion, matching will be the least of your worries. I'd try to find the best possible speakers within budget and let matching issues fall where they may (Full disclosure: I tend to think the importance of speaker matching is overstated in many cases, especially for mid and lower cost systems, but my view is probably a minority view)(In other words, take my opinion with a grain of salt).

I have 3 Aperion Intimus 6LCR in-wall speakers* and Aperion L6IC in-ceiling speakers in a 5.2 system in one room, and I have Aperion Verus Grand speakers in another room.** At one time I had identical Marantz AVRs and Oppo Blu ray players for both systems. I tried playing various Blu rays in both systems (I realize this is an apples to oranges comparison in terms of cost). There was a significant difference in sound quality.

The Aperion in-walls are definitely better than the in-wall speakers that were installed in the house when I bought it. Thus, I can say with certainty that there are worse in-wall speakers. The Aperion in-walls are also much better than the speakers in the TVs I've used in the system.

If you have very modest expectations, you might be happy with the Aperions or other in-wall speakers in that range. I'd recommend looking into building your own boxes if you go this route.

I have tried researching in-wall speakers to replace the existing in-wall speakers in an effort to get performance closer to that of free-standing speakers. I basically gave up. That's not to say they don't exist, but the effort exceedeed my patience threshold. Part of the problem in this quest has been my inability to find honest-to-goodness testing for in-wall speakers. Perhaps the data is out there and I've just missed it, but right now I'm not willing to spend a significant amount of money on an in-wall upgrade without having more data to go on.


*https://www.audioholics.com/outdoor-speaker-reviews/aperion-audio-intimus-6-lcr-in-wall-speakers

**https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/verus-grand (I have an SVS PB13 Ultra sub, not the Aperion sub)

I think the negative reviews come from the HT market flooded with crappy in-wall speakers. Cheaply made, and mass produced. And since most people will go for those cheap speakers I just don't think there are ever going to be enough reviews out there for people who spend a lot more for higher end in-walls. During my research I could barely find anything. I was able to do some in person speaker testing, but I wouldn't call it the most in-depth. I just finally decided on what I wanted and took the plunge.

Before I upgraded my in-walls, the speakers that were in the wall when I purchased my house were Jamo's. I had no idea who that company was. But after doing some research I found they make decent speakers. The one's I had were not the cheap version (for their day) they were a 3 way speaker that had silk dome tweeters and Kevlar cone woofers. They were about $500 a piece for L/R and center channel was about $700. I was able to push them but they did reach their max around -5db on my AVR. After upgrading to a $1500 a speaker in-wall LCR and adding an amp, it is night and day different. Movies and music are 10x better.

 

[Mr._Clark]

I think the negative reviews come from the HT market flooded with crappy in-wall speakers. Cheaply made, and mass produced. And since most people will go for those cheap speakers I just don't think there are ever going to be enough reviews out there for people who spend a lot more for higher end in-walls. During my research I could barely find anything. I was able to do some in person speaker testing, but I wouldn't call it the most in-depth. I just finally decided on what I wanted and took the plunge.

Before I upgraded my in-walls, the speakers that were in the wall when I purchased my house were Jamo's. I had no idea who that company was. But after doing some research I found they make decent speakers. The one's I had were not the cheap version (for their day) they were a 3 way speaker that had silk dome tweeters and Kevlar cone woofers. They were about $500 a piece for L/R and center channel was about $700. I was able to push them but they did reach their max around -5db on my AVR. After upgrading to a $1500 a speaker in-wall LCR and adding an amp, it is night and day different. Movies and music are 10x better.

Interesting! I may need to just take the plunge.

 

[Movie2099]

Interesting! I may need to just take the plunge.

Excellent! which speakers have peaked your interest?

 

[TLS Guy]

I think the negative reviews come from the HT market flooded with crappy in-wall speakers. Cheaply made, and mass produced. And since most people will go for those cheap speakers I just don't think there are ever going to be enough reviews out there for people who spend a lot more for higher end in-walls. During my research I could barely find anything. I was able to do some in person speaker testing, but I wouldn't call it the most in-depth. I just finally decided on what I wanted and took the plunge.

Before I upgraded my in-walls, the speakers that were in the wall when I purchased my house were Jamo's. I had no idea who that company was. But after doing some research I found they make decent speakers. The one's I had were not the cheap version (for their day) they were a 3 way speaker that had silk dome tweeters and Kevlar cone woofers. They were about $500 a piece for L/R and center channel was about $700. I was able to push them but they did reach their max around -5db on my AVR. After upgrading to a $1500 a speaker in-wall LCR and adding an amp, it is night and day different. Movies and music are 10x better.

You are correct. The need I do think is there. The problem is that it is a very difficult task to make a really good and potent in wall system, that really delivers state of the art performance and has good natural voice vocal clarity.

It took me weeks of computer modelling to solve all the issues. The speaker are of limited size, but must be very powerful. The center becomes the most difficult as always. A sealed design is really mandatory. A reflex port flush with the wall is not a good plan. Depth is an issue. But you don't have to extend the wall out that much for the speakers. If you want the electronics flush with the wall then that takes much more depth than the speakers.

For a sub, a TL is really ideal as its profile is really optimal for in wall. They are so efficient and with the right driver give an extended bass response only one 10" driver is required to fill a very large space I found.

So we have been very pleased indeed with this system. My wife is thrilled with it. Because of its location in the home we use it for most of or TV watching and streaming actually. It has vastly exceeded my expectations, and can easily compete with most free standing speaker systems considered reference. It is also and excellent music system and can reproduce the deepest bass with power and authority.

For those that are handy with tools this system is well worth the time and effort to build and at least with my wife has very high WAF factor. It certainly was fun and rewarding to design and build. If you want 5.1 or 7.1 just build more of the main left and right speakers. The tweeter for the center is NLA, but you can substitute the Hiquphon 3/4" tweeter.

 

[2channel lover]

Hello, I have a set of Klipsch 5.1 speakers. I believe they are the quintets. I am remodeling my basement and looking to put in-wall speakers in front and use what I have for surround L-R and rears. I have a Marantz receiver that will handle the 7.1 or 7.2 with still having room for multi-room capabilities. So my question is what speakers should I use for fronts? Does it matter that much as long as the 3 fronts are matched?

Most people looking at inwall speakers...the aesthetics matter as much as performance, in some cases more.

To answer your question, I ask this...how far is the MLP from the speaker wall? You said this is not the primary setup for movies, so my guess is you want something decent but you're not trying to create a studio environment.

Yes...match the front 3.

Some options.

Good...Polk

Better...Paradigm/Revel/Monitor Audio

Best....Triad

I would focus on 8" drivers...for what your purpose is, I'd think you'd a robust CC.

 

[TLS Guy]

Most people looking at inwall speakers...the aesthetics matter as much as performance, in some cases more.

To answer your question, I ask this...how far is the MLP from the speaker wall? You said this is not the primary setup for movies, so my guess is you want something decent but you're not trying to create a studio environment.

Yes...match the front 3.

Some options.

Good...Polk

Better...Paradigm/Revel/Monitor Audio

Best....Triad

I would focus on 8" drivers...for what your purpose is, I'd think you'd a robust CC.

The problem is that you don't know any of those on that list are any good. Not one has a properly designed center. Only Paradigm quote any frequency limits. The rest only tell you how great they are with nothing to back it up.

This is serious as you can't audition an in wall. As far as I can tell I am the only one who has had the nerve to really put out meaningful data on what you can actually do with an in wall.

Anyone who builds my design, can have confidence that it is the only one with proper data to back it up. I have put it out there for the good of one and all. Anyone who builds it as designed, can be confident that not only that it will be a good in wall but a very good reference speaker system able to produce at high spl, any program you want and fill a large space without blowing up. Further that it delivers accurate and intelligible dialog. As far as I can tell it is the only in wall design with a properly designed center. It also contains an outstanding sub, that is good by any standards. All four units are designed for unobtrusive installation.

If you want a state of the art in wall, and there are many applications for that, then build or have that design built. You will need to build out the wall a little though. This is not an issue with new construction or remodels. Not really an issue with existing as you have to open up the wall anyway for wiring and likely the TV installation.

 

[2channel lover]

The problem is that you don't know any of those on that list are any good. Not one has a properly designed center. Only Paradigm quote any frequency limits. The rest only tell you how great they are with nothing to back it up.

This is serious as you can't audition an in wall. As far as I can tell I am the only one who has had the nerve to really put out meaningful data on what you can actually do with an in wall.

Anyone who builds my design, can have confidence that it is the only one with proper data to back it up. I have put it out there for the good of one and all. Anyone who builds it as designed, can be confident that not only that it will be a good in wall but a very good reference speaker system able to produce at high spl, any program you want and fill a large space without blowing up. Further that it delivers accurate and intelligible dialog. As far as I can tell it is the only in wall design with a properly designed center. It also contains an outstanding sub, that is good by any standards. All four units are designed for unobtrusive installation.

If you want a state of the art in wall, and there are many applications for that, then build or have that design built. You will need to build out the wall a little though. This is not an issue with new construction or remodels. Not really an issue with existing as you have to open up the wall anyway for wiring and likely the TV installation.

I have a pair of 8" inceiling Polks that were less than $300 a pair, and I have some boutique brand 8" inceiling that are $900 a pr...I would say most anyone could tell the difference in SQ in a blind setting.

You are correct...auditioning inwalls don't offer much in terms of how they will sound inside your walls...the good better best is more or less a pricepoint guide. I've heard a pair of Triads with back box design and they were the best inwalls I'd heard and the price was fitting.

 

[DigitalDawn]

Take a look at Triad's InWall Bronze/4 LCRs.

https://www.control4.com/docs/product/triad-bronze-lcrs/triad-data-sheet/english/latest/triad-bronze-lcrs-triad-data-sheet-rev-a.pdf

The company will also paint the grills to match the color of your walls. Great WAF.

If I can be of any help, please let me know.

 

[NINaudio]

I don’t want to spend a small fortune, but I’m not looking for the cheapest crap. Mainly use the system for watching sports or playing games, movies once in awhile but it’s not our primary set up

Can you give us a better idea of your budget than that?
One man's small fortune is another's cheapest crap.