Newer Denon AVRs vs my AVR-X5200--how much better Dolby True HD decoding?

[mtrot]

Okay, I'd be interested in upgrading my AVR-X5200 if the newer decoders can offer a better experience in terms of sound quality and dialog intelligibility, spatial cues, etc. in Blu-Ray movies. The reason I put Dolby True HD in the title is that I run a 5.0 system, so Atmos is irrelevant at this point. Also, what about music quality with my SACD and DVD-Audio titles? Do these newer decoders offer a noticeable improvement? Another advantage of the newer models is that I would no longer have to run two HDMI cables from my Oppo 203, one to the TV and the other to the AVR. I would thus be able to see the on-screen display of the AVR.

I'm considering picking up a good condition used Denon 6400 if I can find one. Thoughts? I like the ones that are made in Japan.

 

[lovinthehd]

What new decoders for 5.0? Or codecs rather? You mean upmixers/sound modes?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well as you touched on, the biggest advantage IS Atmos, DTS-X and their respective upmixers. IMO, all are brilliant. However as you know, you need some kind of height speakers. What you’d lose is
Pro Logic II(x and z) movie and music mode. I really enjoy DSU for music but I also really liked PLIIX music, and sometimes use stereo as well. So if you have no intention of expanding your speaker count, then you might be better off in holding out.
For me, it was a no brainer and I went from 7.3 to 7.3.4. I love Atmos and dtsX but understand not everyone cares about it.
So, for you I’d probably recommend keeping the 5200 and getting some subwoofage.

 

[mtrot]

What new decoders for 5.0? Or codecs rather? You mean upmixers/sound modes?

I guess I mean whatever DACs are being used in the newer AVRs vs the DACs in the 5200. I assume a newer unit like the 6400 would have newer, and perhaps better performing, DACs. If this is not correct, then why do they keep installing the newer DACs?

 

[mtrot]

Well as you touched on, the biggest advantage IS Atmos, DTS-X and their respective upmixers. IMO, all are brilliant. However as you know, you need some kind of height speakers. What you’d lose is
Pro Logic II(x and z) movie and music mode. I really enjoy DSU for music but I also really liked PLIIX music, and sometimes use stereo as well. So if you have no intention of expanding your speaker count, then you might be better off in holding out.
For me, it was a no brainer and I went from 7.3 to 7.3.4. I love Atmos and dtsX but understand not everyone cares about it.
So, for you I’d probably recommend keeping the 5200 and getting some subwoofage.

Thanks for the info. It's just that I have read people saying that when they upgraded to newer high end AVRs, they simply felt that the sound field and spatial information was just better. I'm trying to ascertain whether that is indeed the case, or if they are just excited about their new ear candy and fooling themselves.

 

[lovinthehd]

I guess I mean whatever DACs are being used in the newer AVRs vs the DACs in the 5200. I assume a newer unit like the 6400 would have newer, and perhaps better performing, DACs. If this is not correct, then why do they keep installing the newer DACs?

DAC is something else. @PENG for his usual good knowledge on what chips each model is using. Newer dac chips with better specs do come available from the suppliers I imagine, tho it likely makes no audible difference. I'd just keep your current avr....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks for the info. It's just that I have read people saying that when they upgraded to newer high end AVRs, they simply felt that the sound field and spatial information was just better. I'm trying to ascertain whether that is indeed the case, or if they are just excited about their new ear candy and fooling themselves.

Well that’s pretty common. When someone gets new gear, especially when it’s expensive you have expectations, so confirmation bias comes into play. You expect it to sound better, so it will. As far as DAC’s, I think some AVR’s go through generations before changing to new ones, and imo unless your in the bargain basement realm, DAC specs are almost completely academic. Something else to consider, is that different versions of Audyssey,(or other RC) will affect the “spatial information” and could be for better or worse. You never know. So anecdotal reports don’t mean much, unless they’re are qualifiers. Curious, how’s you decide to
run .0?

 

[mtrot]

Well that’s pretty common. When someone gets new gear, especially when it’s expensive you have expectations, so confirmation bias comes into play. You expect it to sound better, so it will. As far as DAC’s, I think some AVR’s go through generations before changing to new ones, and imo unless your in the bargain basement realm, DAC specs are almost completely academic. Something else to consider, is that different versions of Audyssey,(or other RC) will affect the “spatial information” and could be for better or worse. You never know. So anecdotal reports don’t mean much, unless they’re are qualifiers. Curious, how’s you decide to
run .0?

Thanks again. Yeah, it's just that I'm not really into the deep, rumbly LFE bass all that much. My front L/R speakers do produce a LOT of bass, just not as much or with as much force as a sub.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks again. Yeah, it's just that I'm not really into the deep, rumbly LFE bass all that much. My front L/R speakers do produce a LOT of bass, just not as much or with as much force as a sub.

That’s cool. Just was curious. Don’t see much of that in these parts. Lol
Good luck.

 

[mtrot]

That’s cool. Just was curious. Don’t see much of that in these parts. Lol
Good luck.

Well, at least I have a sub in my bedroom system!

New item by Marc T

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, at least I have a sub in my bedroom system!

New item by Marc T

photos.app.goo.gl

Can’t tell what it is, but that looks like a pretty nice bedroom rig!

 

[lovinthehd]

Can’t tell what it is, but that looks like a pretty nice bedroom rig!

His signature says:
FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II tower speakers(Front L/R),PSB Image 5T tower speakers(Surrounds),Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, PS Audio Stellar Gain Pre-amp/DAC, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Sony XBR 75" 900Eth
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Onkyo TX-NR809 AVR, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.

OTOH the Legacys just might not need too much help

 

[mtrot]

Can’t tell what it is, but that looks like a pretty nice bedroom rig!

It's in my signature! I've sold the Sherbourn 5/1500A, so I'm just using the Onkyo to power the Dyns. I found that, while the Sherbourn did offer a bit more slam and impact than the Onkyo, the dang Sherbourn was actually smearing the music a bit, with a loss of clarity in the mids and highs. The Onkyo 809 really sounds great with the Dyns, overall.

 

[mtrot]

His signature says:
FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II tower speakers(Front L/R),PSB Image 5T tower speakers(Surrounds),Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, PS Audio Stellar Gain Pre-amp/DAC, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Sony XBR 75" 900Eth
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Onkyo TX-NR809 AVR, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.

OTOH the Legacys just might not need too much help

Yeah, I've had those Legacys for going on 20 years now, and I'm ready to go with a more modern design. I think they really need a really big room to breath. I'm not sure they are working optimally in my family room. Usually, when you see big Legacys at shows, they have the listening position farther away from the speakers than I can get them in my room. Like I said, I get deep bass, but there is not really much impact at my listening position. I think in a huge room with a big amp, you would turn them up a lot louder and could get much more slam out of them.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

My bad. Sigs don’t show up on my Tapatalk. Dumm.

I was just showing my oldest son today, the legacy’s I promised myself a long time ago. He thought I was crazy, but that’s not new.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, I've had those Legacys for going on 20 years now, and I'm ready to go with a more modern design. I think they really need a really big room to breath. I'm not sure they are working optimally in my family room. Usually, when you see big Legacys at shows, they have the listening position farther away from the speakers than I can get them in my room. Like I said, I get deep bass, but there is not really much impact at my listening position. I think in a huge room with a big amp, you would turn them up a lot louder and could get much more slam out of them.

Send em over! I’ll try. Lol

 

[Pogre]

Adding a sub is about a lot more than adding deep rumble. A good quality sub can elevate your whole system far more than new electronics. You're taking some of the load off your avr and letting your speakers focus on the mids and highs where they really shine. Depending on your speakers I think you get better dynamics too. I have a pair of SVS Ultra towers that are very capable of deep bass and I still prefer my music with my subs on.

A good sub, properly integrated shouldn't even make itself known until you turn it off. It's subtle, gives your sound weight and and there's an effortlessness to my music now. A lot of folks think subs just add boom and some of them do. We call 'em boom boxes and one note wonders. I'm talking a true, good quality sub. And you can get one for the price of the avr you're looking at.

 

[Pogre]

My bad. Sigs don’t show up on my Tapatalk. Dumm.

I was just showing my oldest son today, the legacy’s I promised myself a long time ago. He thought I was crazy, but that’s not new.

Some pretty nice farkin' speakers, I gotta admit!

https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/signature-se/

I'd still want some subwoofage tho...

 

[mtrot]

Some pretty nice farkin' speakers, I gotta admit!

https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/signature-se/

I'd still want some subwoofage tho...

If you are talking about mine, those aren't the ones I have. Mine are the Signature IIs from the 1990s. The Signature IIs are actually bigger and heavier than the new Signature SE. They have two 10" woofers as well as a passive radiator on the bottom. Plus, my Signature IIs have two mid woofers, as opposed to the one mid woofer on the Signature SE. This is a pic of the Signature II.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Somewhere around the year 2000, I promised myself a pair of whispers. By the time I can spend that kind of money on speakers, I’ll probably want something else but who knows...
Edit: yeah, these ones.