Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
Because COVID-19 is still relatively rare in the US, except for a few celebrities and politicians (e.g. Tom Hanks and his wife) most people don't personally know anyone who has the virus. For many of us Gene was the first person we knew who had it. This lack of direct relationships with sufferers is IMO largely responsible for many people in the US not taking the virus as seriously as they should. While I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for thinking this, it might have been the best thing for the country if Trump had not only tested positive but had a few scary symptoms for a week or so. His perspective on the need for national isolation protocols and making protective equipment available might be a lot more urgent.
It depends where you live. 30,000 positives in New York means most know someone with it unless they are in a very tiny town. Wyoming not so much. Given the doubling time it will be true for all by the end of April I expect.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Because COVID-19 is still relatively rare in the US, except for a few celebrities and politicians (e.g. Tom Hanks and his wife) most people don't personally know anyone who has the virus. For many of us Gene was the first person we knew who had it. This lack of direct relationships with sufferers is IMO largely responsible for many people in the US not taking the virus as seriously as they should. While I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for thinking this, it might have been the best thing for the country if Trump had not only tested positive but had a few scary symptoms for a week or so. His perspective on the need for national isolation protocols and making protective equipment available might be a lot more urgent.
Though i don't wish the spread of this on anybody, I do think with Rand Paul, Amy Klobuchar's husband in ICU, several Representatives... the spread among the political leaders is happening and will touch many more of us soon. I agree that a short sharp shock would be indicated for helping our Executive Branch get the point a little more clearly.
Perhaps if Rand Paul infected 20 Republican Senators while engaging in Business As Usual rather than Self Quarantining the way Cruz and some others have, that will drive the point home just as well.
*shakes head
[Edit:] Most of us [currently in this conversation, here], are in clear agreement that our government is all ready to trip its way down the wrong path on how to guide the country through this.
Frankly, the irony is not lost on me that the same people who insisted the ACA would have Death Panels to decide who lives or dies in medical crises are now ready to say that older Americans should "take one for the team" to help get our economy back on track...
Wouldn't this be akin to a modern Holocaust in that we would be clearing perhaps 60-80% of the populace over age 60?!?? How many people, American Citizens, could that amount too? One government site states in 2016 there were over 68 million. How many today?
How many would be left by Summer's end if we Reopen the Economy?
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Possibly. Most likely if it becomes seasonal like the Influenza A as it is a lot worse.
SARS-COV-2 is much worse than influenza.. this go round.

If people who caught it re-catch the slightly mutated version in 2 years; I *suspect* that the mortality will be lower than it is now.

Then again: I get my flu vaccine each year too.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Most of us are in clear agreement that our government is all ready to trip its way down the wrong path on how to guide the country through this.
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats. In the Monmouth poll, 50% say Trump has done a good job with coronavirus while 45% said he has done a bad job.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
A local bar owner in my town came down with it, might be the first super-local. He had to go to the press to get the story out because the county is choosing to not release any demographics until at least 50 cases (or something like that).
That's political malpractice and stupid.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats. In the Monmouth poll, 50% say Trump has done a good job with coronavirus while 45% said he has done a bad job.
I don't know whether to be shocked or pissed. Are they watching the same president in non-action that I am?
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
Though i don't wish the spread of this on anybody, I do think with Rand Paul, Amy Klobuchar's husband in ICU, several Representatives... the spread among the political leaders is happening and will touch many more of us soon. I agree that a short sharp shock would be indicated for helping our Executive Branch get the point a little more clearly.
Perhaps if Rand Paul infected 20 Republican Senators while engaging in Business As Usual rather than Self Quarantining the way Cruz and some others have, that will drive the point home just as well.
*shakes head
Most of us are in clear agreement that our government is all ready to trip its way down the wrong path on how to guide the country through this.
Frankly, the irony is not lost on me that the same people who insisted the ACA would have Death Panels to decide who lives or dies in medical crises are now ready to say that older Americans should "take one for the team" to help get our economy back on track...
Wouldn't this be akin to a modern Holocaust in that we would be clearing perhaps 60-80% of the populace over age 60?!?? How many people, American Citizens, could that amount too? One government site states in 2016 there were over 68 million. How many today?
How many would be left by Summer's end if we Reopen the Economy?
A pox on both their houses.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats. In the Monmouth poll, 50% say Trump has done a good job with coronavirus while 45% said he has done a bad job.
Agree... numbers that are not lost on me... and baffle me.
Though it is noteworthy that the divide between political affiliation re: such approval is as one would expect, with Democrats mostly disapproving, and republicans mostly approving.
An article today showed a plurality of Americans do not agree that we should reopen the economy as Drumpf wants.

Regardless, my typing was clumsy and I will edit above...
"Most of us currently in this conversation, here..."
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Because COVID-19 is still relatively rare in the US, except for a few celebrities and politicians (e.g. Tom Hanks and his wife) most people don't personally know anyone who has the virus. For many of us Gene was the first person we knew who had it. This lack of direct relationships with sufferers is IMO largely responsible for many people in the US not taking the virus as seriously as they should. While I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for thinking this, it might have been the best thing for the country if Trump had not only tested positive but had a few scary symptoms for a week or so. His perspective on the need for national isolation protocols and making protective equipment available might be a lot more urgent.
Sadly this getting personal for people will be the only way they take it seriously. At that point it will be too late.
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
Of course he's aware of it and he's also aware they're in the same hospitality business; chips to be cashed in the near future.
You are aware there is an election in a few months with some of those tax dollars sure to be turned into campaign conributions?
 
chris357

chris357

Senior Audioholic
As a conservative I mostly disagree with this stimulus package from all angles. As I understand it there are already some safeguards put in place so that people cant get evicted right now and banks are working with people on loans so I'm assuming that means mortgage assistance. I've received communication from credit cards saying they will help if we had trouble. Also with states implementing streamlined access to unemployment most people should still have some money coming in shortly. Most people aren't really spending much right now other than on food, utilities and housing. This being said their should be some aid for people in immediate harm of going hungry or being put out on the street, but beyond that I'm not interested in adding $6000 per person to the national debt for everyone to get a check especially since I don't need it. I get that something needs to be figured out for some business since there has to be jobs to go back to but again there is supposed to be access to low interest loans. Anyway this is my stance.

On the Death panel comparison I disagree with all of it. However what the guy said is that he (the lt governor of texas) would be willing to jump on the grenade for the good of the country and he said he knew of others in his age range who felt the same. I disagree with this too but to be clear from what I'm seeing republicans are not all endorsing this.

As for Trump opening things up. He says he wants to, it doesn't mean he will. He is not an eloquent speaker but contrary to your opinions he isn't an idiot but he has to look at the big picture of the country and all things have to be on the table.

I don't wish this on anyone and I'm very sorry for anyone who is struggling through this or has experienced loss. This is a tragic event in our history.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
As a conservative I mostly disagree with this stimulus package from all angles. As I understand it there are already some safeguards put in place so that people cant get evicted right now and banks are working with people on loans so I'm assuming that means mortgage assistance. I've received communication from credit cards saying they will help if we had trouble. Also with states implementing streamlined access to unemployment most people should still have some money coming in shortly. Most people aren't really spending much right now other than on food, utilities and housing. This being said their should be some aid for people in immediate harm of going hungry or being put out on the street, but beyond that I'm not interested in adding $6000 per person to the national debt for everyone to get a check especially since I don't need it. I get that something needs to be figured out for some business since there has to be jobs to go back to but again there is supposed to be access to low interest loans. Anyway this is my stance.

On the Death panel comparison I disagree with all of it. However what the guy said is that he (the lt governor of texas) would be willing to jump on the grenade for the good of the country and he said he knew of others in his age range who felt the same. I disagree with this too but to be clear from what I'm seeing republicans are not all endorsing this.

As for Trump opening things up. He says he wants to, it doesn't mean he will. He is not an eloquent speaker but contrary to your opinions he isn't an idiot but he has to look at the big picture of the country and all things have to be on the table.

I don't wish this on anyone and I'm very sorry for anyone who is struggling through this or has experienced loss. This is a tragic event in our history.
NYC is about explode into a major pandemic and Trump wants to pack people together in the work force? The US has had more infections and death than what was reported in China. I dont quite believe that stat but Im betting its getting close. The medical supplies are running dangerously low in NYC and the state of Indianna. And Trump wants to pack people together again? I can assure you that Trump's desire to get the work force back early is soley that he himself and his business holdings dont go bankrupt. Nothing more. The only thing Trump is looking after is himself.

Covid is much bigger than the US. Its a world pandemic and its affecting every country in the world.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
NYC is about explode into a major pandemic and Trump wants to pack people together in the work force? The US has had more infections and death than what was reported in China. I dont quite believe that stat but Im betting its getting close. The medical supplies are running dangerously low in NYC and the state of Indianna. And Trump wants to pack people together again? I can assure you that Trump's desire to get the work force back early is soley that he himself and his business holdings dont go bankrupt. Nothing more. The only thing Trump is looking after is himself.

Covid is much bigger than the US. Its a world pandemic and its affecting every country in the world.
You seem to forget that the US is the only country in the world. :rolleyes:
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I can assure you that Trump's desire to get the work force back early is soley that he himself and his business holdings dont go bankrupt. Nothing more. The only thing Trump is looking after is himself.
Trump's hotel and resort holdings are dependent on the rich or relatively rich, not the people he wants to put back to work. Though one would think without restaurants they are hobbled and probably empty. Some of the biggest properties are mixed use, and people aren't moving out of luxury condos and apartments over the virus, nor offices. I think he wants to restart the economy because he knows that incumbent presidents tend to get voted out of office if the economy is in the tank. And losing the election would seriously bruise that massive ego, I'm guessing. Also, a personality like his is big on legacy, and I doubt a money-guy like him wants to be known as a president who kicked off a depression.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Trump's hotel and resort holdings are dependent on the rich or relatively rich, not the people he wants to put back to work. Though one would think without restaurants they are hobbled and probably empty. Some of the biggest properties are mixed use, and people aren't moving out of luxury condos and apartments over the virus, nor offices. I think he wants to restart the economy because he knows that incumbent presidents tend to get voted out of office if the economy is in the tank. And losing the election would seriously bruise that massive ego, I'm guessing. Also, a personality like his is big on legacy, and I doubt a money-guy like him wants to be known as a president who kicked off a depression.
Makes sense but it also prooves that he's doing it for himself and not the good of the country. Either way he's f?cked. Hopefully he'll grow a pair and look after the people and not his reputation.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Makes sense but it also prooves that he's doing it for himself and not the good of the country.
Okay, I can agree with your more general statement. We all know we're just props in the reality show of his life.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
See the following article. I hadn't seen before today, but this is one of the papers that reinforces the reason for and the ways I fight seasonal flu:

Thanks for the link. I've read it twice so far, and I'm comparing it to the original paper published in The British Medical Journal (BMJ).

In short, I didn't like the Science Daily's version of the conclusions, or the original BMJ paper at all. My objections are based on conclusions that I believe are unwarranted based on weak correlations with multiple studies. And there also are statistical weaknesses brought on too much variation in the overall participant populations among 25 different studies.

This paper was what is known as a meta-analysis. It compared a large number of different studies and reviews of studies. It mentioned over 11,321 participants, of whom they had access to individual participant data (IPD) for 10,933 (97%). But there is a major problem because those groups of participants were not all from the same or similar enough participant population. To make any meaningful conclusions that have statistical significance, the groups of participants must represent at least a similar subsets of the overall population. I realize that this kind of statistical significance problem puts most people to sleep, but in clinical studies, it is of enormous importance. I think they failed at that.

This analysis included 25 clinical trials conducted in 14 countries including the UK, USA, Japan, India, Afghanistan, Belgium, Italy, Australia and Canada. Did they all study the same or very similar population of participants?

Furthermore, the 25 individual trials yielded conflicting results, with some reporting that vitamin D protected against respiratory infections, and others showing no effect.

A total of 5 aggregate data meta-analyses incorporating data from up to 15 primary trials have been conducted, of which 2 report statistically significant protective effects for Vitamin D, and 3 report no statistically significant difference in effects.

If 5 previous reviews produced conflicting results, 2 reported protective effects and 3 didn’t, how can this group of authors find agreement across the board by using different number crunching methods? Despite that, the Science Daily report claims these results are “worthy of serious debate”. The BMJ paper didn’t use such strong language, and made more modest claims about the results.

Here is my biggest problem. The Science Daily report said “Overall, the reduction in risk of acute respiratory infection induced by vitamin D was on a par with the protective effect of flu vaccine against flu-like illnesses.” If you dismiss yearly flu vaccines as ineffective, how can you choose Vitamin D supplements over the vaccines based on efficacy? I don’t see how both can be true.

This BMJ paper was published in 2017. I don’t read the vitamin supplement literature, but I wonder if anyone else has tried to follow up on this report. I’d like to see a clinical trial testing 4 groups of similar participants with the following:
  • Group 1 receives the yearly flu vaccine.
  • Group 2 receives Vitamin D supplements.
  • Group 3 receives both flu vaccine and Vitamin D supplements.
  • Group 4 receives neither vaccine nor vitamin. They are the control arm.
Test all of them for any reduction of risk of acute respiratory infections.
 
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