Did I waste my money on unnecessary wattage?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So with all that being said, going back the original post, did WE waste money on amps?

Everyone is different. It’s not a “waste” if it doesn’t hurt us financially and it makes us happy. Like Sheryl Crow says, if it makes you happy.......

But if it hurts us financially, then it is a waste. There might be more important things in life than amps and separates.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre went full hog with the Monolith 7. Sometimes you just gotta scratch that amp itch....

I spent a week coming up with reasons for and telling myself why I should get one... lol.

I have it now tho. Might as well use it!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I spent a week coming up with reasons for and telling myself why I should get one... lol.

I have it now tho. Might as well use it!

If it makes you happy, it can’t be that bad.

 

[Pogre]

So with all that being said, going back the original post, did WE waste money on amps?

Everyone is different. It’s not a “waste” if it doesn’t hurt us financially and it makes us happy. Like Sheryl Crow says, if it makes you happy.......

But if it hurts us financially, then it is a waste. There might be more important things in life than amps and separates.

Yeah, it's subjective, really. I know lots of guys who would tell him he didn't waste a penny.

It depends. In your specific scenario I'd say it didn't meet your expectations and that the money could have been spent somewhere else if sound quality is the goal. On the other hand, with your restrictions it's hard to suggest better.

 

[Gmoney]

Definitely better to learn from other people’s mistakes than to make the same mistakes that everyone makes.

A good question to ask is - if you could go back in time, what would you do differently?

The best speakers I’d can get!

 

[ryanosaur]

@mossman77
Mossy: education and patience are your friends in this hobby/pursuit/lifestyle. The cats that build successful systems usually have taken the time to learn, or have been guided by the same. There is simply too much foolishness in the way a majority of gear is marketed and sold for one person alone to dig through on their own; much less get right (especially if you don't understand why capacitance in an amplifier matters, or at what point one needs to be concerned with Slew (don't worry... I don't understand these things fully, either )).

In the course of the posts made here and on your other threads you've gone from 0-60 and back again faster than a Tesla and made more twists and turns than a roller coaster.
I get it.
And it's OK to slow down.

Frankly, deciding to return both amps is why I'm even writing now. That is a SMART decision. I question whether you understand the why of it, but it is a very smart decision: for you, now.

I had tons of questions when I joined here. I took my time learning a lot before pulling the trigger. When I did jump, I was ready and knew what I was doing. Now I have that system, it's been in place as a complete system since May 2019, I am stoked knowing there is very little I can or need to do to improve it. And so I am now devoting my time to learning about Speaker Design, Acoustics and Carpentry so I can build my own system! That will be my upgrade. I'm giving myself 10 years to get there and build that system. And I recognize already I might not best what I have.

Regardless, at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is yourself. You have some very unique criteria that you are using to guide your decisions. I don't agree with any of it. And the sun will still come up tomorrow.

One question that hasn't been answered thus far, unless I missed it in all the back and forth on the efficacy of your amps, is that Denon and Marantz say their AVRs will deliver approximately 70% of the rated power to all channels when driving multiple channels. Unless you are into running Multi-Channel Stereo very loud with a Mono source using material that has sustained high dynamics, you will likely be fine. It is the nature of Surround Effects that rare is the time that all channels are being taxed to the maximum capability of the equipment.

Cheers!

 

[snakeeyes]

@mossman77
Mossy: education and patience are your friends in this hobby/pursuit/lifestyle. The cats that build successful systems usually have taken the time to learn, or have been guided by the same. There is simply too much foolishness in the way a majority of gear is marketed and sold for one person alone to dig through on their own; much less get right (especially if you don't understand why capacitance in an amplifier matters, or at what point one needs to be concerned with Slew (don't worry... I don't understand these things fully, either )).

In the course of the posts made here and on your other threads you've gone from 0-60 and back again faster than a Tesla and made more twists and turns than a roller coaster.
I get it.
And it's OK to slow down.

Frankly, deciding to return both amps is why I'm even writing now. That is a SMART decision. I question whether you understand the why of it, but it is a very smart decision: for you, now.

I had tons of questions when I joined here. I took my time learning a lot before pulling the trigger. When I did jump, I was ready and knew what I was doing. Now I have that system, it's been in place as a complete system since May 2019, I am stoked knowing there is very little I can or need to do to improve it. And so I am now devoting my time to learning about Speaker Design, Acoustics and Carpentry so I can build my own system! That will be my upgrade. I'm giving myself 10 years to get there and build that system. And I recognize already I might not best what I have.

Regardless, at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is yourself. You have some very unique criteria that you are using to guide your decisions. I don't agree with any of it. And the sun will still come up tomorrow.

One question that hasn't been answered thus far, unless I missed it in all the back and forth on the efficacy of your amps, is that Denon and Marantz say their AVRs will deliver approximately 70% of the rated power to all channels when driving multiple channels. Unless you are into running Multi-Channel Stereo very loud with a Mono source using material that has sustained high dynamics, you will likely be fine. It is the nature of Surround Effects that rare is the time that all channels are being taxed to the maximum capability of the equipment.

Cheers!

It’s hard to say how far someone will go down the rabbit hole. Maybe a set of surrounds and 10 years later is the next time he posts.

 

[ryanosaur]

It’s hard to say how far someone will go down the rabbit hole. Maybe a set of surrounds and 10 years later is the next time he posts.

Words almost as wise as ADTGs above!

If you only have budget for “one” thing, it would be the speakers, as everyone says.

If you have more budget, you can add an amp if you want.

If you feel your speakers already sound great after you compared with other speakers, and you have a fascination for amps, you could get an amp also.

Bottom line - you don’t need to rush to buy anything until you are absolutely ready. It’s okay to ask a million questions. Don’t feel like you are under pressure from anyone to buy. This is a discussion forum, not a store.

In the mean time, do a lot more research and continue to save up money. Put some money into your HT piggy bank each month. Everyone has a different level. I put $500 each month into my HT piggy bank. It doesn’t mean I have to spend it very year. But it’s there.

Dream about that system. Take pleasure in your dream.

 

[Pogre]

@mossman77
Mossy: education and patience are your friends in this hobby/pursuit/lifestyle. The cats that build successful systems usually have taken the time to learn, or have been guided by the same. There is simply too much foolishness in the way a majority of gear is marketed and sold for one person alone to dig through on their own; much less get right (especially if you don't understand why capacitance in an amplifier matters, or at what point one needs to be concerned with Slew (don't worry... I don't understand these things fully, either )).

In the course of the posts made here and on your other threads you've gone from 0-60 and back again faster than a Tesla and made more twists and turns than a roller coaster.
I get it.
And it's OK to slow down.

Frankly, deciding to return both amps is why I'm even writing now. That is a SMART decision. I question whether you understand the why of it, but it is a very smart decision: for you, now.

I had tons of questions when I joined here. I took my time learning a lot before pulling the trigger. When I did jump, I was ready and knew what I was doing. Now I have that system, it's been in place as a complete system since May 2019, I am stoked knowing there is very little I can or need to do to improve it. And so I am now devoting my time to learning about Speaker Design, Acoustics and Carpentry so I can build my own system! That will be my upgrade. I'm giving myself 10 years to get there and build that system. And I recognize already I might not best what I have.

Regardless, at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is yourself. You have some very unique criteria that you are using to guide your decisions. I don't agree with any of it. And the sun will still come up tomorrow.

One question that hasn't been answered thus far, unless I missed it in all the back and forth on the efficacy of your amps, is that Denon and Marantz say their AVRs will deliver approximately 70% of the rated power to all channels when driving multiple channels. Unless you are into running Multi-Channel Stereo very loud with a Mono source using material that has sustained high dynamics, you will likely be fine. It is the nature of Surround Effects that rare is the time that all channels are being taxed to the maximum capability of the equipment.

Cheers!

I'm getting the feeling he's not understanding how important speaker choice, placement and positioning are and how much impact it can have on sound.

You need to either lighten up on the restrictions or readjust your expectations. The only thing stopping you from having great sound with your system is you.

 

[mossman77]

I'm getting the feeling he's not understanding how important speaker choice, placement and positioning are and how much impact it can have on sound.

You need to either lighten up on the restrictions or readjust your expectations. The only thing stopping you from having great sound with your system is you.

I understand how important speakers are, and I always knew they were, which is why I splurged on the Mythos Nines, which at the time I thought were audiophile grade speakers. Maybe that isn't the case and the price tag had me thinking that ($799 each). Regardless, they work in my space and they sound great to me, which is most important (other than the center channel tweeter which I am currently in contact with DefTech about). My only regret is not checking here first to get some recommendations. I also now realize that adding an amp was not needed and both amps have been returned. I initially thought I needed more power when all I really needed to do is tweak the crossover and gain settings. Come to find out in addition to the speaker level adjustment (which just deducts the amount of total system gain/volume), there is also an input level adjustment that ranges from -12 dB to +12dB that can be adjusted for each individual input source. This setting does NOT decrease the main volume gain and made a world of difference. I was essentially getting half the power I thought I was.

With the surrounds now installed, everything is sounding pretty darn good. The only other thing I would maybe consider is adding a second sub to get that extra SPL without the localization. Again, thanks to everyone for your invaluable input!

 

[ellisr63]

If this was my setup... I would return the amps, and either be happy with what I have or start looking for speakers that are over 100DB with 1 watt.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

I currently have it set at 100Hz and it sounds pretty good.

If you mean the LPF, the recommended setting by Audyssey and other experts is 120 Hz. If you set it lower, you will forgo some contents in the LFE channel.

 

[mossman77]

If this was my setup... I would return the amps, and either be happy with what I have or start looking for speakers that are over 100DB with 1 watt.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

I've never seen speakers with that high of sensitivity. Regardless, I've sorted things out and am now happy with my F/C/R and surrounds.

 

[mossman77]

If you mean the LPF, the recommended setting by Audyssey and other experts is 120 Hz. If you set it lower, you will forgo some contents in the LFE channel.

I was speaking in car audio terms and have since corrected myself. I have my LFE set to the default 120Hz and 90 Hz is sounding prettt good at the moment for my main speakers. I'm sure I'll raise the xover point once I get a second sub.

 

[PENG]

I was speaking in car audio terms and have since corrected myself. I have my LFE set to the default 120Hz and 90 Hz is sounding prettt good at the moment for my main speakers. I'm sure I'll raise the xover point once I get a second sub.

I am still not clear if we are talking about the same thing. I was referring to the LPF for LFE channel because you mentioned the subwoofer manual. This setting affects the LFE channels only. It is independent from the crossover settings.

So what did you mean by "..LFE set to the default 120 Hz and 90 Hz?".

 

[mossman77]

I am still not clear if we are talking about the same thing. I was referring to the LPF for LFE channel because you mentioned the subwoofer manual. This setting affects the LFE channels only. It is independent from the crossover settings.

So what did you mean by "..LFE set to the default 120 Hz and 90 Hz?".

LPF of the LFE is set to 120Hz and the crossover for the left/right/center channels is set to 90 Hz currently. I realize these settings aren't related (I initially did not realize this). I'm used to car audio where you set the LPF for the sub and the HPF for the mids/tweets independently. I understand now.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've never seen speakers with that high of sensitivity. Regardless, I've sorted things out and am now happy with my F/C/R and surrounds.

They're relatively rare (often horns), finding something in the 90s is pretty decent, as many speakers are typically in the mid 80s. Some simply overstate their sensitivity (like Klipsch who uses an in-room spec rather than the typical anechoic room spec). I have some speakers that are in the low 80s, some in the high 80s and some in the low 90s....definitely easier to drive those in the 90s vs low 80s....

 

[mossman77]

So if I perhaps change my mind on floor standers, any opinions on the ML Motion 40? Older model (replaced by 40i) and on sale for $1,300 a pair. Folded tweeter, 5.5" mid driver, and dual 6" woofers with rear firing port. The are pretty slim, at only 7.6" wide, so I think I could live with that. Except how far off the wall would they need to be positioned considering the rear firing port? If only 2" or 3" then that would be fine.

Other thing to consider is I'd want to use my DT Mythos Nine center and DT surrounds for the time being, so there would be a mismatch.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@ryanosaur
Iirc he auditioned those but maybe it was the 60’s. I believe he liked them a lot but not as much as the monitor silvers. I’ll shutup.... lol
Maybe he can tell you correctly! Lol

 

[ryanosaur]

@ryanosaur
Iirc he auditioned those but maybe it was the 60’s. I believe he liked them a lot but not as much as the monitor silvers. I’ll shutup.... lol
Maybe he can tell you correctly! Lol

You are correct Bill... good memory. The Motion 60 way outperformed the Motion 40, though I did not hear them side by side. The Motion 40, with good Subs, would be a decent performer, I think.

Found minimal difference between the MA Silver 300 and 500... still preferred the larger of the two.

Between the Silver 300 and the Motion 40, I would say no contest and happily listen to the Silvers.