How to connect Mcintosh MC8207 (XLR only) to Yamaha AVR Pre-outs?

[beanz690]

Hello everyone,

I hope I am posting in the right section.

I recently bought an MC8207 (XLR inputs only) to replace a Marantz MM8077 amp that has both rca and xlr inputs.
I am using the preout (RCA) section of my Yamaha TSR-7810 avr with Monoprice RCA>XLR adapter cables until I can afford for a decent Pre/Pro which are super expensive. The issue I am having is that I now I need to raise volume much higher than before using the Marantz amp's RCA inputs. Also, Mcintosh said that improper cabling techniques in the adapter can cause potential damage.

Is it safe to continue using the monoprice rca to xlr cables?
Is there anything I can buy (affordable) to turn the unbalanced signal into balanced signal until I can save up for the pre/pro? And is it necessary/better?

I recently watched a video on YT by Audioholics where Gene discusses output voltage on avr pre-outs, I think I understand it but still very unsure about how to go about it with my system.

Other details that might matter (or not):
5.2 living room system. 60% music / 40% movies. Don't really care for atmos.
KEF R11s , R2C center, B&W CCM684 surrounds, B&W PV1D x 2
Bluesound Node 2i / ATV 4K / PS4

TSR7810 pre out spec:
1V / 1.2k ohm

MC8207 Input Sensitivity (for rated output):
2.0 Volt Balanced with a 4 ohm Loudspeaker
1.0 Volt Unbalanced with a 4 ohm Loudspeaker (zone 2 only)
2.8 Volt Balanced with a 8 ohm Loudspeaker
1.4 Volt Unbalanced with a 8 ohm Loudspeaker (zone 2 only)

Any general recommendations are welcome for my circumstances.

Thank you!

 

[lovinthehd]

As long as your adapter cables aren't creating some sort of hum/noise I'd think they're fine. The nominal pre-out rating of the Yamaha spec doesn't tell you a lot usually, altho there have been some lower priced Yamahas reported that seem to have limited pre-out voltage.

Did you calibrate for the new amp so that the volume readings are equivalent? As long as you can still get the desired volume cleanly I wouldn't worry about it.

BTW that is one odd combo, the Yamaha with a Mc amp.....if you really need to boost line level there are devices like this

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Shouldn't be a problem. The lower volume just means the voltage gain is lower than before.

 

[JerryLove]

Agreed. Non problem.

 

[beanz690]

As long as your adapter cables aren't creating some sort of hum/noise I'd think they're fine. The nominal pre-out rating of the Yamaha spec doesn't tell you a lot usually, altho there have been some lower priced Yamahas reported that seem to have limited pre-out voltage.

Did you calibrate for the new amp so that the volume readings are equivalent? As long as you can still get the desired volume cleanly I wouldn't worry about it.

BTW that is one odd combo, the Yamaha with a Mc amp.....if you really need to boost line level there are devices like this

Thanks for your reply. I do get very clean sound even at the higher gain level but was worried about what the representative at McIntosh said about shorting something.

Oddly after recalibration it did not change anything in terms of increasing channel gain. It actually decreased my right Channel to -0.5db.

I know it’s a very weird combo, I started out buying better equipment and got a really good deal on the McIntosh and could not resist. I definitely want to buy a proper processor like an av7705 but right now I cannot spend a penny more lol, just finished remodeling the house and it’s still hurting.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for your reply. I do get very clean sound even at the higher gain level but was worried about what the representative at McIntosh said about shorting something.

Oddly after recalibration it did not change anything in terms of increasing channel gain. It actually decreased my right Channel to -0.5db.

I know it’s a very weird combo, I started out buying better equipment and got a really good deal on the McIntosh and could not resist. I definitely want to buy a proper processor like an av7705 but right now I cannot spend a penny more lol, just finished remodeling the house and it’s still hurting.

Unless you gotta have Audyssey, the Yamaha CX-A5100 is what I would look at. Gene gives it "state of the art" measurements. For Marantz, it would be the AV8805.

So Yamaha CX-A5100, Marantz AV8805, or McIntosh pre-pro.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for your reply. I do get very clean sound even at the higher gain level but was worried about what the representative at McIntosh said about shorting something.

Oddly after recalibration it did not change anything in terms of increasing channel gain. It actually decreased my right Channel to -0.5db.

I know it’s a very weird combo, I started out buying better equipment and got a really good deal on the McIntosh and could not resist. I definitely want to buy a proper processor like an av7705 but right now I cannot spend a penny more lol, just finished remodeling the house and it’s still hurting.

Not sure what the Mc guy was referring to....maybe ask specifically?

Not into the Mc thing, don't want tubes and their ss amps are kinda weird with output transformers and all....altho resale value does hold well with their stuff.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not sure what the Mc guy was referring to....maybe ask specifically?

Not into the Mc thing, don't want tubes and their ss amps are kinda weird with output transformers and all....altho resale value does hold well with their stuff.

The Mc guy wants him to buy a Mc Pre-pro with XLR outputs.

 

[lovinthehd]

The Mc guy wants him to buy a Mc Pre-pro with XLR outputs.

LOL probably.

 

[JerryLove]

Thanks for your reply. I do get very clean sound even at the higher gain level but was worried about what the representative at McIntosh said about shorting something.

There is nothing to short. I have been running a setup like that for more than a decade

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

LOL probably.

Amazing what some of these audio guys will say. Trying to scare people. Should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[lovinthehd]

Amazing what some of these audio guys will say. Trying to scare people. Should be ashamed of themselves.

Well in audio sales it's certainly not unusual! More the rule....

 

[beanz690]

Thanks for all the feedback.
The guy from McIntosh mentioned that “cheap” cable companies often do the grounding incorrectly. I’m don’t know what it means specifically but the Monoprice cables work just fine except for the volume issue which is likely to be the difference in voltage unbalanced vs balanced.

I feel much better hearing you guys say there shouldn’t be a problem. It sounds fine but I wanted to play it safe and ask people more knowledgeable than me.

Are there any pre/pro with balanced out around $1000? Everything I’ve seen is upwards of $2300 and have many features I don’t really need (at least not now).

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for all the feedback.
The guy from McIntosh mentioned that “cheap” cable companies often do the grounding incorrectly. I’m don’t know what it means specifically but the Monoprice cables work just fine except for the volume issue which is likely to be the difference in voltage unbalanced vs balanced.

I feel much better hearing you guys say there shouldn’t be a problem. It sounds fine but I wanted to play it safe and ask people more knowledgeable than me.

Are there any pre/pro with balanced out around $1000? Everything I’ve seen is upwards of $2300 and have many features I don’t really need (at least not now).

Multich or 2ch for the pre?

ps Maybe check out the Outlaw 976

 

[PENG]

I definitely want to buy a proper processor like an av7705 but right now I cannot spend a penny more lol, just finished remodeling the house and it’s still hurting.

Based on the measurements I have seen, the AV7705 is no better than an AVR such as the SR7012/13, AVR-X4400H/X4500H or even the SR6012/13/AVR-X3600H except it has balanced output. For about the same money, the CX-A5100 is more like a "proper processor" that you referred to.

 

[beanz690]

Multich or 2ch for the pre?

ps Maybe check out the Outlaw 976

Although my priority is 2ch music I would prefer to have one box that gives me high quality sound for both. I will check out some reviews for the outlaw, I didn't realize it had balanced out. Right now I have the node 2i connected via analog and listen in Pure Direct Mode. I would prefer to have a better dac in the receiver so that I can utilize the subwoofers for music too since pure direct strictly runs L & R only.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Multich or 2ch for the pre?

ps Maybe check out the Outlaw 976

Ooh, maybe someone can send Amir their Outlaw 976 for review.

Here is S&V's test of the 975:
"Analog THD+N: less than 0.02% at 1 kHz with a 100-millivolt input. Crosstalk with a 100-mV input: –91.28 dB left to right and –93.81 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with “A” weighting: –121.85 dBrA.—MJP"

Here is the Yamaha:
"Analog THD+N: less than 0.008% at 1 kHz w 100-millivolt input. Crosstalk w 100-mV input: –93.82 dB left to right, –94.21 dB right to left. Signal-to-noise ratio w “A” weighting: –130.92 dBrA.—MJP"

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for all the feedback.
The guy from McIntosh mentioned that “cheap” cable companies often do the grounding incorrectly. I’m don’t know what it means specifically but the Monoprice cables work just fine except for the volume issue which is likely to be the difference in voltage unbalanced vs balanced.

I feel much better hearing you guys say there shouldn’t be a problem. It sounds fine but I wanted to play it safe and ask people more knowledgeable than me.

Are there any pre/pro with balanced out around $1000? Everything I’ve seen is upwards of $2300 and have many features I don’t really need (at least not now).

You may be confused about what the guy at McIntosh said.

There is a correct protocol for doing this. We have this post again and again, and I'm loosing count as to how many times I have gone over the correct procedure.

This is the correct wiring going from RCA to XLR.

So to go RCA to XLR like you wan't to do you need the top connection.

On the other hand if you are going XLR to RCA you need the lower connection. These are what is known as floating lines.

However line voltage XLR is around 2 volts and for RCA I volt. So there is a 3 db discrepancy. This may require an active converter if this imbalance of gain structure is an issue.

I wonder if a mod could make this a sticky as I'm tired of having to go over this again and again.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You may be confused about what the guy at McIntosh said.

There is a correct protocol for doing this. We have this post again and again, and I'm loosing count as to how many times I have gone over the correct procedure.

This is the correct wiring going from RCA to XLR.

So to go RCA to XLR like you wan't to do you need the top connection.

On the other hand if you are going XLR to RCA you need the lower connection. These are what is known as floating lines.

However line voltage XLR is around 2 volts and for RCA I volt. So there is a 3 db discrepancy. This may require an active converter if this imbalance of gain structure is an issue.

I wonder if a mod could make this a sticky as I'm tired of having to go over this again and again.

I don't think the OP is doing the WIRING himself, nor is he interested in opening up the cable to check the wiring.

As long as the cable is good quality, it's simple plug-and-play. I've done it many times back when I was using an AVR to ATI amp. So have many people. You don't need any kind of converter. Plug and play.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, when I make my cables I keep the direction in mind and follow my Neutrik guide. Opening up one to see how it was made may not work too well, tho.