Receiver advice: is the AVR-X3600H overkill or just right for my purpose?

[Dolbee]

I have a 5.2 setup with no plans for adding any more speakers. I am replacing my Denon AVR-X4100W in order to get HDMI pass-through for HDR content, etc. Will the Denon AVR-X3600H be the best choice for me, or could I look at other models as well?

I am interested in keeping Audyssey XT32, with the dual sub calibration. So it seems the 3600 is the lowest model that supports that. I also believe the internal amps will be powerful enough for me. I rarely go louder than -20 dB for movies and stuff. But I am open to getting external amplification for the fronts if needed.

My speakers are:
Fronts: System Audio SA Mantra 60
Center: System Audio SA Mantra 10AV
Surrounds: Monitor Audio Bronze FX
Subs: XTZ 10.16

 

[Leemix]

It should be the one you are looking for yes, unless you can find a great deal still on the 3500h and save some money.

 

[M Code]

It should be the one you are looking for yes, unless you can find a great deal still on the 3500h and save some money.

Amazon has the 3500 for $549...

Just my $0.02...

 

[Leemix]

Thats a very good deal @M Code has found.
(I often cant see US prices so dont have as good an overview as i would like)

 

[lovinthehd]

@Dolbee I'm guessing you're not in the US with the gear listed so US deals may not be available where you are, but the difference in 3500 to 3600 is minimal so if you can find one....

ps I was thinking other transitions in this series, this one is more significant from 3500 to 3600 in terms of amp channels/processing....

 

[slipperybidness]

Amazon has the 3500 for $549...

Just my $0.02...

Scooped that up myself just last week!

 

[Dolbee]

Thanks, guys! It’s correct that I don’t live in the US.

Regarding power, do you think I would benefit from a power amp for the fronts, or will the Denon alone suffice for my use? Also, if I were to find the X4500H at around the same price point (up to say $150 more), would there be any reason for me to get that instead? Coming from the X4100W, the 4500 would probably be the matching model in today’s lineup.

 

[Leemix]

Thanks, guys! It’s correct that I don’t live in the US.

Regarding power, do you think I would benefit from a power amp for the fronts, or will the Denon alone suffice for my use? Also, if I were to find the X4500H at around the same price point (up to say $150 more), would there be any reason for me to get that instead? Coming from the X4100W, the 4500 would probably be the matching model in today’s lineup.

The 4500 has a little more power which might be nice but its hard to say.
I like external amps but im not sure you really need one, guess it depends on volume you play at size of room and what crossovers you use.

 

[PENG]

Thanks, guys! It’s correct that I don’t live in the US.

Regarding power, do you think I would benefit from a power amp for the fronts, or will the Denon alone suffice for my use? Also, if I were to find the X4500H at around the same price point (up to say $150 more), would there be any reason for me to get that instead? Coming from the X4100W, the 4500 would probably be the matching model in today’s lineup.

If you can get it for the same price or $150 more, definitely. It is only slightly more powerful but it is a higher end model nevertheless.. Whether it can drive your speakers without an external power amp or not depends on how far you sit from the speakers and how loud you need for movies/music and whether you listen to multi-channel stereo mode (most people don't).

 

[Dolbee]

If you can get it for the same price or $150 more, definitely. It is only slightly more powerful but it is a higher end model nevertheless.. Whether it can drive your speakers without an external power amp or not depends on how far you sit from the speakers and how loud you need for movies/music and whether you listen to multi-channel stereo mode (most people don't).

The 4500 is a higher end model because of the extra (and slightly more powerful) amps, and the better build quality (front metal flap). But what would the real world benefits be for me, choosing the 4500? What would it give me (that I can use) for the extra $$$?

I only run 5 speakers (plus subs, see my opening post). I sit around 13 feet from the screen. The room is around 265 square feet (rectangular). My volume is usually in the -30 to -20 dB range when watching movies.

I read somewhere that the 3600 has Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization, whereas the 4500 doesn't. That might be something I can use, since I don't have any height speakers installed.

 

[PENG]

The 4500 is a higher end model because of the extra (and slightly more powerful) amps, and the better build quality (front metal flap). But what would the real world benefits be for me, choosing the 4500? What would it give me (that I can use) for the extra $$$?

The power amp section of the 3400, 4400, and the 6012/7012 (Marantz) are virtually the same including the output devices, the 4400/7012 have more blocking capacitance, 15,000 uf X2 vs 12,000 uFX2 and a slightly larger transformer. So by extension, imo it is safe to assume the 3600 will have virtually the same power amp section as well and the transformer size will most likely be in between that of the 3400/3500 and 4400/4500.

I only run 5 speakers (plus subs, see my opening post). I sit around 13 feet from the screen. The room is around 265 square feet (rectangular). My volume is usually in the -30 to -20 dB range when watching movies.

Then I don' think you need an external amp, but it is still a good idea to put a fan on top of the unit as that should help extend its useful life.

I read somewhere that the 3600 has Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization, whereas the 4500 doesn't. That might be something I can use, since I don't have any height speakers installed.

Good point, I don't know how well that work, but there is nothing to loose. For me, I would still take the 4500 for the same money, but given the new information you provided, it is hard to justify $150 extra.

 

[Dolbee]

Would this amp be an upgrade over the internal X3600H amps, if used for my two front speakers?

 

[ryanosaur]

Would this amp be an upgrade over the internal X3600H amps, if used for my two front speakers?

Interesting.
ICEpower class d amp modules can be purchased from Parts Express here in the US, and it is possible to build your own Amp for around $300-400 USD. Class D is still somewhat polarizing in terms of its efficacy in High-End audio... as compared to the Hypex NCore Class Ds which seem to be getting very favorable press.

Regardless, you need to weigh you preferred listening level and seating distance against the Watts required to get you speakers up to that level.

This is a great tool we always refer friends to when discussing the needs for external amplification:
Peak SPL Calculator

I bought amps, and frankly, I likely rarely use more than 8-16w in my normal listening. However, it was important to me to have the headroom to reach appropriate SPL for Dynamic Peaks in music or HT, so I pursued amps that would give me that headroom.
105dB is very loud, but for my speakers to reach that, I would need about 256w per channel.
I don't think I've ever come close, but my speakers are happy when I push them as far as my hearing cares for me to push them. (...which is pretty far, sometimes.)

 

[Pogre]

Would this amp be an upgrade over the internal X3600H amps, if used for my two front speakers?

Interesting.
ICEpower class d amp modules can be purchased from Parts Express here in the US, and it is possible to build your own Amp for around $300-400 USD. Class D is still somewhat paolarizing in terms of its efficacy in High-End audio... as compared to the Hypex NCore Class Ds which seem to be getting very favorable press.

Regardless, you need to weigh you preferred listening level and seating distance against the Watts required to get you speakers up to that level.

This is a great tool we always refer friends to when discussing the needs for external amplification:
Peak SPL Calculator

I bought amps, and franlkly, I likely rarely use more than 8-16w in my normal listening. However, it was important to me to have the headroom to reach appropriate SPL for Dynamic Peaks in music or HT, so I pursued amps that would give me that headroom.
105dB is very loud, but for my speakers to reach that, I would need about 256w per channel.
I don't think I've ever come close, but my speakers are happy when I push them as far as my hearing cares for me to push them. (...which is pretty far, sometimes.)

That is an interesting unit, and it's not ridiculously priced either.

Oh goody. A new rabbit hole for me...

 

[ryanosaur]

That is an interesting unit, and it's not ridiculously priced either.

Oh goody. A new rabbit hole for me...

Just gonna put this down... right here... and walk away.

 

[ryanosaur]

To further that converstaion:

Review and Measurements of Hypex NC400 DIY Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of a DIY power amplifier based on Hypex NC400 amplifier modules. It was built and is on kind loan from a member. I asked him to list the parts and this is what he supplied: $980 Amp modules, SMPS, internal cables (AC, DC, and shielded input) with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Pogre]

Just gonna put this down... right here... and walk away.

You summinabench...

 

[lovinthehd]

Would this amp be an upgrade over the internal X3600H amps, if used for my two front speakers?

Only if you need it. Has more potential than the on-board amps. Looks nice and seemingly not too high priced (how much would it cost you?).

 

[Dolbee]

Only if you need it. Has more potential than the on-board amps. Looks nice and seemingly not too high priced (how much would it cost you?).

Well, "need" is the hard word here. I just bought the AVR-X3600H. Feature wise it is a step up from my ageing AVR-X4100W. But I am worried (audio neurotica) that the X3600H might not be able to get the best out of my speakers. The recent video that Gene posted added to this. Did I just buy a lower end AVR, when I should have bought a model above?

I did consider the X4500H, which I could get for almost the same price as the X3600H, but I felt that the more sensible thing was to buy a 2019 model over a 2018 model. Adding a power amp would be more peace of mind, than anything else. Knowing that my fronts will get the juice (quantity AND quality wise) when they need it.

Regarding price for the XTZ Edge amp, I will get it for around the same price here as from the US web site.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, "need" is the hard word here. I just bought the AVR-X3600H. Feature wise it is a step up from my ageing AVR-X4100W. But I am worried (audio neurotica) that the X3600H might not be able to get the best out of my speakers. The recent video that Gene posted added to this. Did I just buy a lower end AVR, when I should have bought a model above?

I did consider the X4500H, which I could get for almost the same price as the X3600H, but I felt that the more sensible thing was to buy a 2019 model over a 2018 model. Adding a power amp would be more peace of mind, than anything else. Knowing that my fronts will get the juice (quantity AND quality wise) when they need it.

Regarding price for the XTZ Edge amp, I will get it for around the same price here as from the US web site.

I'd simply use the new avr for a while. You should already know if you're not getting what you need from your speakers with it. The amp section on your old avr is slightly above the 3 series I believe but not by a lot. I used to use power amps with avrs, but for my needs they were simply overkill....altho there's nothing inherently wrong with that, and I have several amps right now doing nothing and was thinking about at least putting them to use I only saw European pricing in UKP and EUR in my brief look. What is it here in the US? $500 or so?