Marantz AVR,Pre-Pro and Amp Help Needed

[Pike44]

Thought I could figure this out on my own but the more I read and learn the less knowledgeable I am feeling. I am moving from a 7.1 to a 7.1.4 and upgrading from my Elite SC-502 which I have not been happy with. Currently struggling to decide which is the best route for my setup which are B&W 702 S2 towers, B&W HTM1 D3 center along with surrounds Episode 1500 6" ceilings (4) and 1500 6" in-wall (4) and SVS PB-4000. Room measures 16' 10" x 24' 10" with 9' ceilings (half is media room and back half is office). I work from home and listen to 2 channel music but also have a 123" screen and projector which I often watch 4k movies along with TV nights and weekends. Trying to figure out if one of the below makes more sense, all are about equal perfomance but not cost or if anything listed is honestly a waste of money for no gain in performance (such as IF SR8012 and SR6014 are more equal if only powering surrounds; common sense to put the cost difference elsewhere/amp). Thanks for any help, suggestions or guidance.

SR8012: Let it run everything or add a 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
SR7013: Plus adding 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
SR6014: Plus adding 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
AV7705: Power with XPA-11 (wasn't sure if 8x65w for surrounds was ideal)

 

[TLS Guy]

Thought I could figure this out on my own but the more I read and learn the less knowledgeable I am feeling. I am moving from a 7.1 to a 7.1.4 and upgrading from my Elite SC-502 which I have not been happy with. Currently struggling to decide which is the best route for my setup which are B&W 702 S2 towers, B&W HTM1 D3 center along with surrounds Episode 1500 6" ceilings (4) and 1500 6" in-wall (4) and SVS PB-4000. Room measures 16' 10" x 24' 10" with 9' ceilings (half is media room and back half is office). I work from home and listen to 2 channel music but also have a 123" screen and projector which I often watch 4k movies along with TV nights and weekends. Trying to figure out if one of the below makes more sense, all are about equal perfomance but not cost or if anything listed is honestly a waste of money for no gain in performance (such as IF SR8012 and SR6014 are more equal if only powering surrounds; common sense to put the cost difference elsewhere/amp). Thanks for any help, suggestions or guidance.

SR8012: Let it run everything or add a 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
SR7013: Plus adding 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
SR6014: Plus adding 3 ch amp such as XPA-3, XPA-DR3 or D-Sonic M3a-1200-3
AV7705: Power with XPA-11 (wasn't sure if 8x65w for surrounds was ideal)

B & W have a real penchant for building difficult to drive speakers. Yours are no exception as they spec them as being 8 ohm, but they are not as they spec the minimum impedance as 3.1 ohms. You can bet with B & W that low impedance will be right in a high power frequency band. In short they are know receiver busters.

With your size of room I would advise using the Marantz 7705. I have been using mine for about a month and I'm very pleased with it.

I use all Quad amplification and pretty much have used Quad current dumpers for years. I don't use commercial speakers but design and build my own. I do have quite a few 4 ohm loads, but no really difficult loads. However it is a system that could not be driven by a receiver. But whatever the situation I strongly recommend getting power amps out of the box with the voltage gain stage and processors. I have always agreed with the late Peter Walker founder of Quad electroacoustics, that receivers are a terrible idea. He never designed one, and when his marketers asked if they could have one, the answer was always a curt NO!

So I have no experience with Emotiva amps, but many here have been happy with them.

Marantz 7705 installed

Power amp case during construction.

The system is similar to your plan, but it is 7.2.4. Due to the use of some active crossover 18 power amp channels are required.

Rear backs, surrounds and rear ceiling speakers.

Front left right and center and front ceiling speakers.

I'm using 100 watts to each ceiling speaker but I think 65 watts will be plenty. Not sure of the wisdom of using an 11 channel amp. I would split it up a bit.

I'm using 1100 watts on the two fronts, 300 watts on the center, 500 watts on the two surrounds, 800 watts on the two rear backs and 400 watts for the four surrounds. Total 3,100 watts. That way everything stays nice and relaxed.

Your room is a similar size to this one. Mine is fractionally larger.

Make sure in your design that you have good ventilation. My power amp case has continuous air extraction to the outside from above the amp case. Do not crowd the equipment.

Enjoy your build. I'm not completely done yet. I have to finish bringing the analog gear on line.

 

[Pike44]

Thanks for your response. Wow, that setup looks amazing; love the visual look of the equipment wall. I have what I consider to be adequate ventilation (8'x5' closet (no vent due to builder screw up) but does connect to a full half bath that is vented and I keep the door between those 2 rooms open while theater room door is shut). Did want to call out for my setup, despite the room, I have 1 row of seating (4 seater curved config) and my listening position is about 7-8ft from my center/ 10-11' from fronts.

I was really leaning towards the AV7705 based on the arguments of separates. My fear was banking on a single amp such as the XPA-11 (3x300 and 8x65) or the Monolith (3x200 and 8x100) as if anything with the amp went wrong there goes the whole system but at the same time is is an easy seperated plus 1 amp box solution. Where I got more derailed was getting into Marantz/Audioholics forums where there was a ton of responses saying for an 11.1.4 with no existing amps; why not go with the SR8012/7013/6014 and let it handle the 8 surrounds and just separate amp the front 3. That line of thought then lead me down the rabbit hole of looking at those 3 AVRs just to power the 8 surrounds and if you could go from the SR8102 to the SR7013 or SR6014 without losing anything, it would free up more money for a better amp for the front 3. For example SR7013+3 ch amp XPA-3 or D-Sonic = $3459 or $4,175 vs AV7705+XPA-11= $4,298.

I'm giving D-Sonic a call later today to talk as out of the amps listed I was thinking the D-Sonic M3a-2400-3 (3x400) or Emotiva XPAD3 (3x450) would be the top for that situation. Then again not sure how much bang I am really getting from double the price over the Emotiva XPA-3 (2x300 2ch or 3x275). This is my first go around with amps which seems to be a landmine of different thoughts/theories/forum debatable facts. Thanks again for anyone's thoughts and feedback on this.

 

[snakeeyes]

Or buy three Outlaw 2200 amps.

 

[Pike44]

Or buy three Outlaw 2200 amps.

They were on my list, but for the price are $100 more than Mono 3ch and about $60 shy of the XPA-3. I know from reading the Outlaws have a huge following but same seems to be of Emotiva and Mono. With the 2220 being 200w; XPA-3 being 300w for 2 ch and 275w all; Mono 200w per, is there reason such as distortion, build quality or something else why the Emotiva wouldn't be the favorite of these 3 from a wattage standpoint? I do have some fear of people with my speakers claiming Emotiva made them harsh and bright since right now they are not, but then again comes the all amps sound the same side.

 

[Pogre]

You just missed a great sale Outlaw was running on those amps at 3 for $777. I have a Monolith 7 and am super happy with it. Legit 200+ wpc and never gets hot, even at spirited listening levels.

 

[Pike44]

You just missed a great sale Outlaw was running on those amps at 3 for $777. I have a Monolith 7 and am super happy with it. Legit 200+ wpc and never gets hot, even at spirited listening levels.

So with your setup in your signature, does that mean you are in the camp of going AVR but taking stress off it with an amp? If so are the 8012/7013/6014 all fully capable of running my 4 surrounds and 4 atmos? Hate to spend 8012 money if 6014 gets me to the same place for just handling surrounds and atmos. I'm guessing with my timing I will be missing all recent sales.

 

[Pogre]

Normally I'd say the 6014 would easily handle surround duties, but you're talking about 8 surround/Atmos speakers and I only have 2 surrounds. Still, I think it'll do the job for you if you offload the front 3 speakers to an outboard amp. The effect channels don't get near the action the front 3 do.

 

[PENG]

So with your setup in your signature, does that mean you are in the camp of going AVR but taking stress off it with an amp? If so are the 8012/7013/6014 all fully capable of running my 4 surrounds and 4 atmos? Hate to spend 8012 money if 6014 gets me to the same place for just handling surrounds and atmos. I'm guessing with my timing I will be missing all recent sales.

I went from the AV8801 to AVR-X4400H (amps are separate) and everything sounds just as good or better. So I went from AVR to separates twice, back to AVR and I doubt I would ever go back to separate for HT. It makes no sense to pay double only to get outdated in a few years. The 6014 is already more up to date than the 7705. Also as you alluded to, an AVR based HT system is a good back up should something go wrong with your power amp(s).

So my preference would be AVR+a strong 3 ch amp + a lesser 8 channel amp, or just let the AVR power the surround channels. If it is the latter, go with the 7013, or x4500h if you are okay with the Denon look.

If all ext amp(s), the x3600h/6014 are fine.

Don't forget the RX-A3080, that is on sale now at Amazon.

 

[Pike44]

I went from the AV8801 to AVR-X4400H (amps are separate) and everything sounds just as good or better. So I went from AVR to separates twice, back to AVR and I doubt I would ever go back to separate for HT. It makes no sense to pay double only to get outdated in a few years. The 6014 is already more up to date than the 7705. Also as you alluded to, an AVR based HT system is a good back up should something go wrong with your power amp(s).

So my preference would be AVR+a strong 3 ch amp + a lesser 8 channel amp, or just let the AVR power the surround channels. If it is the latter, go with the 7013, or x4500h if you are okay with the Denon look.

If all ext amp(s), the x3600h/6014 are fine.

Don't forget the RX-A3080, that is on sale now at Amazon.

Thanks for your feedback. At this point I am heavily leaning towards the SR7013 as it seems to get me where I need to in terms of the AVR capabilities and power for the surrounds and atmos. While I'd love the SR8012, not sure it is worth the price difference for 15 more watts and 3 unused channels versus using the difference towards the 3ch amp. I keep leaning toward the Marantz with how much 2ch music I listen to while I work.

On the amp side after talking to Dennis I am leaning toward the D-Sonic 3 x 400w. Second is currently 3 Outlaw 2220 at 3 x 200w and third would be Monolith 3 x 200w. I've removed the Emotiva's from my consideration after talking to quite a few B&W owners.

 

[snakeeyes]

Is the D sonic in the price range of an Anthem MCA 325? That might be a nice amp to consider if you have a larger budget than for Outlaw or Monolith.

Personally I would want monolith3 or 5 or some outlaw 2200 on at least the 2 main channels if not also the center. (Hard to justify the more expensive ones, at least in my own current budget)

 

[Pike44]

Is the D sonic in the price range of an Anthem MCA 325? That might be a nice amp to consider if you have a larger budget than for Outlaw or Monolith.

Personally I would want monolith3 or 5 or some outlaw 2200 on at least the 2 main channels if not also the center. (Hard to justify the more expensive ones, at least in my own current budget)

The D-Sonic M3a-1200-3 lists as $1,975 versus 3 Outlaw 2200 running $1,200. From talking with Dennis at D-Sonic, sounded like he had some very happy B&W owner experiences from both a music and ht standpoint especially those with Marantz. Also he will make updates to the amp should anything in the technology change for the better in the future. After talking with him along with messaging some of his customers and reading every review I could find on them, I am feeling very comfortable with his product. So if I go this route, my $800 savings from dropping from the SR8012 to the SR7013 would go to that difference. I feel the 400w per channel would really set my front 3 up perfectly.

 

[Verdinut]

Thanks for your feedback. At this point I am heavily leaning towards the SR7013 as it seems to get me where I need to in terms of the AVR capabilities and power for the surrounds and atmos. While I'd love the SR8012, not sure it is worth the price difference for 15 more watts and 3 unused channels versus using the difference towards the 3ch amp. I keep leaning toward the Marantz with how much 2ch music I listen to while I work.

On the amp side after talking to Dennis I am leaning toward the D-Sonic 3 x 400w. Second is currently 3 Outlaw 2220 at 3 x 200w and third would be Monolith 3 x 200w. I've removed the Emotiva's from my consideration after talking to quite a few B&W owners.

I agree with you about the elimination of the Emotiva brand as an option. The reliability of their products is inferior to that of other manufacturers and they will not service them after the expiry of the their warranty period.

Emotiva XMC-2

I remember they turned Gene down for an amp repair too. Guess they're not qualified to fix their own gear? That just sounds stupid how Emotiva would not repair their own amp. They won't repair any of their OWN amps if the warranty period is over? :eek:

forums.audioholics.com

 

[Pike44]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this. Ordered the Marantz SR7013 and D-Sonic 3 ch amp which both arrive tomorrow. Hopefully will be able to setup everything on Friday as I'm very eager to see the difference this makes in my current 7.1 setup until I can get the conversion to 7.1.4 done. Thanks again!