Monolith 7x200 amp vs ... competition? (Looking for experienced amp advice)

[Landmonster]

Hi guys.

I am looking to purchase a power amp in the near future, to power my full Polk LSiM series speaker setup. (For anyone who cares, or is familiar: I am running 2x LSiM 707 towers up front, 706c center, 2x 705 towers surrounds. So it's a full tower setup, and I was potentially open to bi-amping the front two towers.)

According to Polk reps, and according to Polk 707 owners who have tried amps, these 707 speakers sound best with 250+ watts per channel. Less is needed for the center (706c) and surrounds (705). They could be wrong, but that is commonly what I have read.

Ergo, I believe I will be fine with a 7ch amp as long as it has at least 150+ WPC at 8 ohms, and I can bi-amp the front towers, giving those 2 speakers 300+. If the amp is 5 channel or less, then each channel should have 250+ WPC because I cannot bi-amp the mains.

I was looking at 5-7 channel amps, hoping to get the absolute best performance for under about $1800.

Here is what I am looking at currently:

1. Monolith 7: 7x200 WPC, $1600, +tax +shipping .... https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=304&cp_id=30402&cs_id=3040201&p_id=14566&seq=1&format=2
2. Used Marantz MM8807 7x150 WPC, $1350 .... used, but good condition .... https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&ProductId=MM8077
3. Used B&K Reference 7270 ii 7x200 WPC, $850 ... used, rough condition... https://tmraudio.com/components/power-amplifiers/b-k-reference-7270-series-ii-7-channel-power-amplifier-mkii/
4. Emotiva XPA5 5x250 WPC, $1679 .... https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-5-gen3
5. Emotiva XPA DR3 3x450 WPC, (using receiver to power surrounds) $2100 ... https://emotiva.com/products/xpa-dr3 A little over my price range, but possibly worth it if the performance is noticeably better.
6. Other brands (feel free to chime in)

Anyone care to chime in? I had my sights set on the Monolith 7x initially, and I'm still open to it, but have 2 issues:
1) I do hate paying full retail for things. It never seems to go on sale, and I'm not sure if it will again soon. Any ideas on Monolith coupon codes or future sales?
2) How will it sound vs some of these other amps in the same system? It appears to have pretty good specs, but many of these other brands don't publish real specs... and there is a segment of people who believe you can't pick amps based on specs anyway! (As you know, there is much VooDoo going on in audiophile lairs)


A key problem is that it is difficult to get a hold of all the true specs on these amps, and compare "apples to apples", under the same test conditions.

I would greatly appreciate any advice, whether through knowledge or experience!

Whatever amplifier I buy, it is not something I'd want to replace anytime in the next 5 years or so. Even if I outgrow it, I'd like to keep it as part of the system, or used to power a secondary system.

 

[Verdinut]

It's inexact to say that the 707 speakers will perform better with a 250+ watt power amplifier. Despite the fact that Polk indicate that they can handle a 300 watt steady state amplifier, I doubt that they would for instance withstand a 600 watt peak input. Those products will probably be damaged with more than 300 watts for a second or more. The 300 watts is most likely their acceptable limit for peak music content for a fraction of a second.
If their published sensitivity of 88dB for 1 watt input is accurate, it would take only a few watts to obtain reasonably good SPL's in a normal size listening space, at a 10 foot distance from them. If you have a big room, of course the situation might be different.

In my opinion, both the Monolith and the Marantz MM8077 have excellent specs and would be able to adequately do the job. Bear in mind that the Monolith product is sold directly from the manufacturer. It represents an excellent value. On the other hand, the Marantz if you can get it an attractive low cost, represents a good value as well and has the advantage of weighing 50% less than the Monolith, and is therefore a lot easier to handle.
Also, between a 200 watt and a 300 watt power rating, there is a difference of less than 2dB which is barely audible.

 

[Verdinut]

Here are serious reviews on both amps: NOTE: I found nothing for a Marantz MM8807

Monoprice Monolith 7-Channel Amplifier Review

The Monoprice Monolith is an astounding 7-channel, 200wpc amplifier with two massive teroidal transformers delivering gobs of power and textbook performance at a value price point. Our amp of the year

www.audioholics.com

Marantz AV8801 Surround Processor & MM8077 Amplifier

AV8801 Surround Processor Audio Performance Video Performance Features

www.soundandvision.com

 

[Truthslayer]

Check out the Anthem MCA 525, don't worry about the suggested retail price of $3499. You should be able to find a dealer who can get you a good deal for around $2000 to $2200. Anthem amps are top quality and last forever. They rate their power very conservatively.

 

[Verdinut]

Check out the Anthem MCA 525, don't worry about the suggested retail price of $3499. You should be able to find a dealer who can get you a good deal for around $2000 to $2200. Anthem amps are top quality and last forever. They rate their power very conservatively.

Why should someone pay more to get no audible improvement in performance? As compared with AVRs, power amps last long and I wouldn't question the longevity of either a Marantz or a Monolith power amp.

 

[Truthslayer]

Why should someone pay more to get no audible improvement in performance? As compared with AVRs, power amps last long and I wouldn't question the longevity of either a Marantz or a Monolith product.

If your one of those who thinks all amps sound the same, good for you. However some have the experience and good sense to know that they don't all sound the same. And I didn't question the longevity of a Marantz or Monolith. But I do know the quality of the components used in Anthem and their longevity, and I think the boys at Audioholics will confirm that to. But in the end, it's the OP's final decision and he asked for advise, so I gave my opinion. But if you've never owned or auditioned an Anthem amp, you probably wouldn't understand.

 

[Verdinut]

If your one of those who thinks all amps sound the same, good for you. However some have the experience and good sense to know that they don't all sound the same. And I didn't question the longevity of a Marantz or Monolith. But I do know the quality of the components used in Anthem and their longevity, and I think the boys at Audioholics will confirm that to. But in the end, it's the OP's final decision and he asked for advise, so I gave my opinion. But if you've never owned or auditioned an Anthem amp, you probably wouldn't understand.

Don't come with that bullshit about amplifiers sounding better than others. A good amplifier just increases a source voltage without modifying its nature, with minimal distortion and added noise. By what you are advancing, it just shows that you don't have much experience. You would maybe benefit from reading the numerous posts on this website written by regular members. Nowhere is a reference to an amplifier sounding better than another one. Here, we are discussing hi-fi grade amplifiers and all well designed amplifiers are acoustically transparent and sound the same when they are driven within their limits.

The ones you mention that have a good sense to know, either have golden ears or have been lead to believe what they were told by manufacturers and sellers.
Serious Audioholic members here don't believe in that snake oil and bullshit propaganda. Many of us have decades of experience, some are engineers, speaker builders and dealers as well.

 

[Truthslayer]

Don't come with that bullshit about amplifiers sounding better than others. A good amplifier just increases a source voltage without modifying its nature, with minimal distortion and added noise. By what you are advancing, it just shows that you don't have much experience. You would maybe benefit from reading the numerous posts on this website written by regular members. Nowhere is a reference to an amplifier sounding better than another one. Here, we are discussing hi-fi grade amplifiers and all well designed amplifiers are acoustically transparent and sound the same when they are driven within their limits.

The ones you mention that have a good sense to know, either have golden ears or have been lead to believe what they were told by manufacturers and sellers.
Serious Audioholic members here don't believe in that snake oil and bullshit propaganda. Many of us have decades of experience, some are engineers, speaker builders and dealers as well.

Well seems like you just have an attitude problem and are itching for an argument Minimal distortion and added noise, is that not in part how an amplifier sounds. I have 40 years experience. Does that make me the worlds expert-no. But it does give me lots of experience. And yes there are those with the golden ears you speak of. How an amplifier performs and sounds at low and high volumes is different from one to another. I'm also pretty sure if you wish to waste your time and look through all the post here and other sites, where you will see, some mention how one amplifier may sound thin or weak as compared to some that sound thick, meaty etc. Some sound edgy, sharp, cold etc. Some have their own tonal characteristics. I also never said one sounded better than the other, it's all personal preference. Different amplifier classes, do not all sound the same. But if you really think so, then good for you. So just relax and stop with the little man syndrome.

 

[everettT]

Out of the units you have listed, I'd take the Monolith as ATI builds excellent quality amps, and the price is good per watt.

I wouldn't be concerned with bi amping the speakers, no real benefit with passive designs and you still would be using the same transformer.

 

[Landmonster]

Thanks for the reply so far.

What are people's thoughts on the emotivas, either the XPA or the differential reference series? Are they better or worse than the ATI amp design?

I'm essentially looking for the best amp under $2,000, but if I can get it less than 1500 so, then even better.

 

[everettT]

Thanks for the reply so far.

What are people's thoughts on the emotivas, either the XPA or the differential reference series? Are they better or worse than the ATI amp design?

I'm essentially looking for the best amp under $2,000, but if I can get it less than 1500 so, then even better.

All I will say is there have been some strange instances with them, that would prohibit me from purchasing any electronics from them.

Build wise at 200w x7 for under 2k, Monolith would be my choice.

 

[PENG]

If your one of those who thinks all amps sound the same, good for you.

Unless I missed something, and that is quite possible, I don't recall too many (if any) members including @Verdinut who can speak for himself that "all amps sound the same........" Even those who came close to making such claim, would typically qualify their statements.

I like amps, and imo this "all amps sound the same.." thing is overrated, or mostly misconstrued. For example, who on AH would believe a 5 W amp would sound the same as a 100 W amp driving 88 dB/2.83V/1m 4 ohm nominal speakers for 75 dB spl from 10 ft?

For the OP, I also would recommend the MCA amps. I have an old MCA 20, I really like it's light weight, a real work horse with good specs.

 

[Danzilla31]

I own an Anthem MCA 525 and an Anthem PVA 7 I can attest to the build quality and excellent performance very good amps

With your budget constraints though I would go with the Monolith an ATI built amp with great reviews proven performance by reviewers and customers for a price well within your budget

I've owned the new Emotiva Gen 3 it sounded good as well but I would go with the Monolith over Emotiva. It sounds as well as any amp we've been discussing but not for the extra amount when you can get the monolith for less and get the same performance and as some have posted on this site some members have had issues with Emotiva that would steer me clear of there electronics

 

[Verdinut]

Unless I missed something, and that is quite possible, I don't recall too many (if any) members including @Verdinut who can speak for himself that "all amps sound the same........" Even those who came close to making such claim, would typically qualify their statements.

I like amps, and imo this "all amps sound the same.." thing is overrated, or mostly misconstrued. For example, who on AH would believe a 5 W amp would sound the same as a 100 W amp driving 88 dB/2.83V/1m 4 ohm nominal speakers for 75 dB spl from 10 ft?

For the OP, I also would recommend the MCA amps. I have an old MCA 20, I really like it's light weight, a real work horse with good specs.

@PENG
We have to compare apples to apples. However, didn't I mention that amps sound the same if they are operated within their limits. A 5 watt amplifier and a 100 watt amp is not a valid comparison and when someone is trying to get the 5 W amp to drive a 88 dB/2.83V/1m 4 ohm nominal speaker for 75 dB from 10 ft, it is obviously driven out of its limits.

 

[CajunLB]

Can’t we just all get along ?

 

[Landmonster]

One thing nobody has mentioned here is the Marantz 8807 amplifier.

I would be curious to know how it compares and sound quality and build quality to the monolith... but also whether 150 watts per channel would be enough to drive the Polk LSiM speakers

 

[lovinthehd]

Bi-amping doesn't double the power to start. Try this article https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

You might note that Gene is no longer going to review Emotiva products as they refused to service an amp that failed, plus he's not had good experiences generally with their gear. Check out Gene's comments (particularly post # 58) in this thread https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-xmc-2.115575/

I doubt there's any sound quality differences among the major players, it's a mature technology for quite a while now. I seriously doubt even an old amp listener like slayer of truth can distinguish the solid state amps mentioned so far in a proper comparison. Especially old ears like he and many of us have, LOL.

The Marantz amp is 8077 perhaps? Here's what I see of that model mentioned around here https://duckduckgo.com/?q=marantz+8077+site:audioholics.com&t=ffab&atb=v136-1&ia=web

 

[Landmonster]

Bi-amping doesn't double the power to start. Try this article https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

You might note that Gene is no longer going to review Emotiva products as they refused to service an amp that failed, plus he's not had good experiences generally with their gear. Check out Gene's comments (particularly post # 58) in this thread https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/emotiva-xmc-2.115575/

I doubt there's any sound quality differences among the major players, it's a mature technology for quite a while now. I seriously doubt even an old amp listener like slayer of truth can distinguish the solid state amps mentioned so far in a proper comparison. Especially old ears like he and many of us have, LOL.

The Marantz amp is 8077 perhaps? Here's what I see of that model mentioned around here https://duckduckgo.com/?q=marantz+8077+site:audioholics.com&t=ffab&atb=v136-1&ia=web

Yes I am sorry, I meant the Marantz 8077. There is one for sale locally for $1350. My only concern is that it is only 150watts per channel, and a gross weight of like 45lbs.

Another question:
What about an older Rotel 1095? It is 200 watts x 5 channel. How would the sound quality and build quality compare to the Monolith 7x?

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes I am sorry, I meant the Marantz 8077. There is one for sale locally for $1350. My only concern is that it is only 150watts per channel, and a gross weight of like 45lbs.

Another question:
What about an older Rotel 1095? It is 200 watts x 5 channel. How would the sound quality and build quality compare to the Monolith 7x?

LOL you're asking the wrong guy, I'd just pick an amp for the power/impedance/number of channels needed at the price I like best. I like Crown XLS amps myself, great value. I also doubt your speakers will somehow be better with 250wpc vs 150wpc, that would depend on actual usage rather than what the fanbois in the Polk forums spew....

 

[Verdinut]

Bi-amping doesn't double the power to start. Try this article https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Using 2 identically powered amplifiers has the effect of quatrupling the power of one single amplifier.

Taken from Rod Elliott's article on active bi-amplification. (By the way, Rod will be removing his site from the web early next year):

1.4 - Actual vs Effective Power
If we assume that our 100 Watt amplifiers will be handling exactly the same peak amplitudes with typical program input, then we have a total of 200 Watts for the combined program material. So, where does the magic come into this? This amp combination will sound (and measure) as if it were 400 Watts - twice as much 'effective' power as there is real power. This is a highly simplified explanation though, and you may or may not realise the full benefit depending on a great many factors. For this to make sense, we need to back track a little.
Imagine a sine wave signal of 100Hz at an amplitude of 28V RMS. For an 8 ohm load, this equates to about 100W (98 actually). The same amplitude at 1000Hz will be exactly the same power. Now add the two signals together, in the same way that signals add together in music. We are interested only in the peak amplitude, the RMS value indicates that the power is only 3dB higher, but it is only when an oscilloscope is used that the true picture emerges.
We will now see a low-frequency waveform, with a higher frequency waveform superimposed - the high frequency signal will be riding up and down the path of the low frequency signal. If we were to perform a calculation (or simply measure the combined signal with an oscilloscope),we will see that the peak amplitude has doubled. The effective RMS value (most multimeters will get this wrong unless they are true RMS types) is 40 Volts, and this would imply 200W. Although this is the real RMS voltage, it totally underestimates the amplifier power needed to reproduce it cleanly. An oscilloscope shows 80V peak for the same waveform, so the amplifier must be capable of passing an 80V peak signal - a 400W amplifier.