Marantz SR6013 Vs Yamaha RX-A1080 AVENTAGE

[click]

My speakers Klipsch RP-250F are relatively easy to drive. The 4 options I'm considering now are:

1. Marantz SR60xx right in my budget

2. Yamaha RX-A1080 or Yamaha RX-A2070 going a bit above my budget (around 300 bucks)

3. Arcam AVR390 by doubling my budget.

4. Marantz SR50xx or Denon AVR-X2600 plus and external 2-channel amplifier with HT pass-through like Marantz PM800x or something similar used as power amp and doubling my budget.

Only from music perspective and maybe from room correction too, is it worth it to go above my budget an pick one of the options 2, 3 or 4 ?

 

[PENG]

My speakers Klipsch RP-250F are relatively easy to drive. The 4 options I'm considering now are:

1. Marantz SR60xx right in my budget

2. Yamaha RX-A1080 or Yamaha RX-A2070 going a bit above my budget (around 300 bucks)

3. Arcam AVR390 by doubling my budget.

4. Marantz SR50xx or Denon AVR-X2600 plus and external 2-channel amplifier with HT pass-through like Marantz PM800x or something similar used as power amp and doubling my budget.

Only from music perspective and maybe from room correction too, is it worth it to go above my budget an pick one of the options 2, 3 or 4 ?

It has been almost 7 months and 101 posts since your first post. Before some of us (me anyway..) start repeating what might have been said before, it would help if you can provide your seating distance and room dimensions again (you might have done so before) and specific new questions that have not been responded to before, or not to your satisfaction.

For example, I thought "music perspective" and room correction related questions have been addressed by some posts already.

In your option 4, the SR50XX would work, but not the AVR-X2600H because it does not have pre-out.

 

[click]

Room dimensions are 4.1m x 7.5m but the system will be placed at the one side of the room facing towards the longest 7.5m wall. Seating distance will be around 3.2m from the speakers and around 3.5m from the screen. Room height is 2.55m. I don't know how all this translates in feet.

Thanks for the info about the missing pre-outs on X2600. I am just curious if any of the mentioned setups above (2, 3, 4) has any benefit in sound over the setup Nr 1 I am primarily targeting.

 

[lovinthehd]

You at least have shopping patience . I think you're concentrating too much on the electronics, if you want better sound quality get better speakers (or a sub, do you have one?). When I hear electronics described as musical I just think of reviewer bullshit. Your speakers as you mention are fairly easy to drive, and I'd think most avrs would do just fine in that regard. Power amps don't magically make things sound better (at least not in my experience and I have seven power amps in the house, none of which are currently in use with any of my avrs except for subs). Still, I'd get an avr with pre-outs should you decide to scratch that itch. I'd look at 3500/3600 Denons or perhaps their sister brand Marantz' equivalents, depending on price for the feature set.

 

[PENG]

Room dimensions are 4.1m x 7.5m but the system will be placed at the one side of the room facing towards the longest 7.5m wall. Seating distance will be around 3.2m from the speakers and around 3.5m from the screen. Room height is 2.55m. I don't know how all this translates in feet.

Thanks for the info about the missing pre-outs on X2600. I am just curious if any of the mentioned setups above (2, 3, 4) has any benefit in sound over the setup Nr 1 I am primarily targeting.

Thank you for the update. In that case, the answer is no, that is no "benefit in sound". Golden ears will disagree so you have to choose who to believe and what (e.g., objective known facts/science, or subjective views) to believe. As HD and others have already alluded to, speakers matter much more than amps, unless power need is the issue, once you get pass amps that are not designed for neutrality/accuracy. There are other reasons to go with separates, and I have quite a few separate components too, just that audible sound quality difference is not the motive, though it was, once upon the time..

Your option 1 is fine for your speakers in your room sitting 3.2 meter from them. You should have no trouble listening at near reference level. If you want to your keep your ears sharp and lower the chance of getting tinnitus for as long as possible, then you probably should stay clear from reference level though.

You may find better deals for the Denon AVR-X3600H that is equivalent to the SR6013 in audio specs and most likely share the same parts and circuity except the HDAM.

 

[click]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I do have a Sub for the movies, a 12" JBL from the Venue series. It is not very new but I think it is powerful enough. After I move into my new home I will know better wether I need to replace it or not. As for the Klipsch speakers, I am not planing at this point to replace them, I am pretty happy with them and they are relatively new (2-3 y old). I only want to make sure I will get the maximum out of them. My main objective is to add more speakers to my system for the Atmos and replace only the surround ones; in a second place I may also replace my center Klipsch speaker with a bigger one if needed. Therefore I am looking for the best AV-receiver solution for my place to drive all these speakers considering that besides movies I am also using my system a lot for stereo music listening.

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean "the maximum" out of your speakers? You can't play them loud enough?

 

[PENG]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I do have a Sub for the movies, a 12" JBL from the Venue series. It is not very new but I think it is powerful enough. After I move into my new home I will know better wether I need to replace it or not. As for the Klipsch speakers, I am not planing at this point to replace them, I am pretty happy with them and they are relatively new (2-3 y old). I only want to make sure I will get the maximum out of them. My main objective is to add more speakers to my system for the Atmos and replace only the surround ones; in a second place I may also replace my center Klipsch speaker with a bigger one if needed. Therefore I am looking for the best AV-receiver solution for my place to drive all these speakers considering that besides movies I am also using my system a lot for stereo music listening.

I might have said this earlier already that if you intend to go for 11 channels, you need the sr6013 or avr-x3600h for under $1,000, to do 11.1. The RX-A2070/2080 can do 9 channels discrete but you would have to step up to the RX-A3080 to do 11.1.

 

[click]

What do you mean "the maximum" out of your speakers? You can't play them loud enough?

I mean to have a clear sound with no distortion at all volumes and for all frequencies, even when I play them loud.

My plan is for a 5.1.2 Atmos setup. There is no space for a 7.1.2. If the room permits it, I may upgrade it later to 5.1.4 but not sure about that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I mean to have a clear sound with no distortion at all volumes and for all frequencies, even when I play them loud.

My plan is for a 5.1.2 Atmos setup. There is no space for a 7.1.2. If the room permits it, I may upgrade it later to 5.1.4 but not sure about that.

Your speakers have more inherent distortion than the electronics. I seriously doubt you'll find much difference from your current avr in terms of any audible distortion with a new unit.

 

[click]

Your speakers have more inherent distortion than the electronics.

I don't really get what you mean here.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't really get what you mean here.

It's clearly stated I thought. Your speakers introduce more distortion than your electronics (not just your speakers, all speakers)....so if you're worried about distortion, especially at high spl levels, then better speakers would be the way to go....

 

[click]

How can you know about the distortion a speaker produces at specific volume levels when you are shopping. Is there anything specifically in the specs I should pay attention?

 

[lovinthehd]

How can you know about the distortion a speaker produces at specific volume levels when you are shopping. Is there anything specifically in the specs I should pay attention?

Speaker companies usually don't provide such, or even much about expected volume levels; you'd generally need to look at third party measurements. It's just the nature of the beast, so I am saying you're worrying about an aspect of the electronics that isn't really an issue as compared to the inherent distortion of transducers.

You may benefit from more power to keep distortion to a minimum at higher spls but that is often overblown as to importance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Atmos 5.1.2 or 5.1.4?

I think it comes down to Denon X3500, X4400, X6400, or Yamaha RX-A1080 or RX-A2080.

The X3500 is probably best bang for your buck on sale for $600 and has Audyssey XT32.

Personally, I prefer the Yamaha's, but it's hard to recommend to others when the Yamaha RX-A1080 costs twice as much as the Denon X3500.

 

[PENG]

How can you know about the distortion a speaker produces at specific volume levels when you are shopping. Is there anything specifically in the specs I should pay attention?

You are right, some (not many unfortunately..) higher end speakers do published limited distortion specs but it would be hard to find such specs for for speakers in general.

For example, the $20,000/pair Klipsch P-39F has the following distortion specs, according to Stereophile:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-palladium-p-39f-loudspeaker-specifications#tIgWJPZV1rahOdGA.99

Harmonic distortion (measured at 95dB/m): second harmonic, <0.5%, 50Hz–10kHz; third harmonic, <0.1%, 50Hz–6.6kHz.

You can also look for the measurements by soundstagenetwork.com. Below is one for the lower end R-820F:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Klipsch Reference R-820F Loudspeakers

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Top curve: frequency response @ 90dB SPL
Bottom curve: THD+N @ 90dB (50Hz - 10kHz)

KEF and B&W tend to provide some distortions specs also, below are data for the $32,000 KEF blade:

Blade Ultimate High Performance Loudspeaker | KEF

Exploring the Art of the Possible BLADE is the top model in the range with four 225mm/9in. bass drivers and a Uni-Q MF/HF array in a 1590mm/62.5in. high cabinet. BLADE is the world's first Single Apparent Source loudspeaker and the production version of the cost no object Concept Blade project...

us.kef.com

Harmonic distortion 2nd & 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)

<0.5% 40Hz – 100kHz <0.2% 200Hz – 10kHz

So as HD said, speakers typically have much higher distortions than well designed avrs/preamps/amps, though they tend to have less (still higher than amps) higher order harmonics that may be more offensive.


Aside from harmonic distortions, there are also frequency distortions/response. Speakers frequency response are almost always much worse than that of even budget level amps. Below is the anechoic FR for the Klipsch R-820F:

That's anechoic, in-room response will look much worse.
Now, compare that to an AVR such as the AVR-X3300H reviewed by Audioholics.com:

 

[click]

Thanks PENG for the detailed description. I think its pretty clear I don't need to raise my budget to that levels for my case.

Atmos 5.1.2 or 5.1.4?

I think it comes down to Denon X3500, X4400, X6400, or Yamaha RX-A1080 or RX-A2080.

The X3500 is probably best bang for your buck on sale for $600 and has Audyssey XT32.

Personally, I prefer the Yamaha's, but it's hard to recommend to others when the Yamaha RX-A1080 costs twice as much as the Denon X3500.

Why do you prefer Yamaha? Because of reliability, GUI friendliness, some unique features?

One thing that makes me a bit sceptical about Marantz/Denon is that they do not offer DAB+ tuner in their models. Yamaha does. Nowadays FM tuner is getting more and more obsolete in my area (recently in some cities in Germany they even stopped completely all FM/AM broadcasts).

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL I had to look up DAB+ tuner, meant to when you mentioned it earlier and forgot. Been ages since I've used the radio tuner in any of my avrs (I've lived in areas with little to no reception of radio since owning them for the most part). So never even thought of it. I find internet access much more useful.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks PENG for the detailed description. I think its pretty clear I don't need to raise my budget to that levels for my case.

Why do you prefer Yamaha? Because of reliability, GUI friendliness, some unique features?

One thing that makes me a bit sceptical about Marantz/Denon is that they do not offer DAB+ tuner in their models. Yamaha does. Nowadays FM tuner is getting more and more obsolete in my area (recently in some cities in Germany they even stopped completely all FM/AM broadcasts).

Everyone has their own story to tell.

For me, Yamaha might be more reliable. But only time will tell. M Code has said many times that Yamaha is #1 in reliability and HDMI compatibility. So far so good. I've only had my Yamaha's for 2 years.

I can vouch for the better Yamaha HDMI compatibility with my own systems.

I also find Yamaha's WiFi apps (remote, MusicCast) to be much better. So things just seem to work much better for me. But that's just me.

I can get the Denon/Marantz cheaper than Yamaha. But as for now, I will only buy Yamaha for myself and my family. But only time will tell regarding reliablity.

 

[PENG]

Everyone has their own story to tell.

For me, Yamaha might be more reliable. But only time will tell. M Code has said many times that Yamaha is #1 in reliability and HDMI compatibility. So far so good. I've only had my Yamaha's for 2 years.

I can vouch for the better Yamaha HDMI compatibility with my own systems.

I also find Yamaha's WiFi apps (remote, MusicCast) to be much better. So things just seem to work much better for me. But that's just me.

I can get the Denon/Marantz cheaper than Yamaha. But as for now, I will only buy Yamaha for myself and my family. But only time will tell regarding reliablity.

I am sure M Code is right about those things. Agreed that reliability may need time to prove things out, but regarding the HDMI compatibility issues, for whatever reasons I have not experienced any such issues. I do have quite a few HDMI devices including an Apple TV, Chromcast, Amazon Fire stick 4K, aside from 3 BDPs, 1 HDDVD, 1 PS4, fibe tv box and a smart TV etc. May be I still haven't come across a bad combination..

So who has HDMI compatibility issues, how about @lovinthehd , @ryanosaur , @Pogre , @Danzilla31, @William Lemmerhirt and @KEW , have you guys encountered hdmi compatibility issues with anything? I am not looking for such issues, but am very curious about if it's just my luck, firware updates fixed it, or simply have not found the trouble causing combination of devices.